"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" asked the Philippian jailer

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

April 11, 2012 

The Philippians Jailor - Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Q1. What does the jailor want to be saved from?

Q2. Is Paul addressing the same salvation that the jailor inquired earnestly?

Q3. How shall the jailor's believing in Christ save him and his house?

Q4. Who is the jailor's house?

Q5. When the jailor asked for a light, who brought it to him - his wife? his daughter? his subordinate?

Q6. Is Paul's reply declaring a salvation by proxy, i.e. the jailor act of believing shall save him AS WELL AS his house?

Q7. What is the salvation that is by proxy here?

If you can keep to the subject, I covet your comments. Thanks.
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Comments

Johnny Davis
1. Initially, saved from those above him. Paul turned on the term, "saved" to spiritual salvation.
2. Yes, in the same way that Paul spoke of the idol to the unkown god, being THE God. He had a way of doing that.
3. Yes. For by his belief, his household, of which he was head, also came to believe.
4. Have not studied this. I am assuming his family, though there may be more that one family in residence.
5. No, it is the words of the jailor to the others, the "hearing" that they came to believe, and become baptized ultimately.
6. I've never thought of salvation by proxy, except that Jesus voted for us, on the cross. We did not suffer the agony of death, spiritual and physical, becuase he was our proxy.

Sing F Lau
Thank you for doing better this time... i.e. responding to the specific questions asked.

A1. What do you mean by spiritual salvation? Eternal salvation?

A2. Your answer is gibberish to me.

A3. Apostle Paul said the jailor's believing would save NOT only him but also his house. Explain that... not something else. One man's believing will save him and others... What salvation is the talking about?

A4. I like honest answers... not imaginative ones.

A5. What are the words of the jailor to others? Where does it say in the text? Did he preach a sermon to others?

A6. I suggest there is salvation by proxy... not eternal salvation, but temporal salvation. Haven't you experienced it in life. Someone's act of obedience saves himself and others from certain disasters?

Sing F Lau
I added another question:

Q5. When the jailor asked for a light, who brought it to him - his wife? his daughter? his subordinate?

Johnny Davis
This will be "philosophical," so ignore without considering if you wish, Sing. You ask, what do I mean by physical salvation. All that is physical, man included, is such, only by the creation and will of God. We know what a cell is. We know laws of physics. We know that nothing in the physical remains without change, and physical life, though a mystery, is merely physical things, arranged to be able to move and think (in the case of humans). Everything physical passes. It all changes. It is never the same. It all eventually dies. The jailer was worried about his physical life, when he asked Paul, something like this: "How can you help ME (breathing, thinking physical ME) get out of being killed for allowing you to escape. I've got a family that needs me." Those folks spoke common language, and not the churchy lingo of the KJV, in all likelihood. Paul, very diplomatic and shrewd (real Philemon for a great example of this), seized the opportunity to teach, so that the jailor could hear, and believe (actually, he already "believed" having the receptiive heart of godliness), to tell the gospel of Jesus, which resulted in spiritual life forever with God, and the jailor told the same story to his family and household (servants, perhaps), and they too believed, resulting in eternal life. Now, how long the physical salvation from the Roman higher-ups lasted, we don't know. I'd bet the jailer gave a shot at speaking the gospel, before he was punished. Yet, we do know, all his family and household were ultimately saved (and baptized), and I look forward to meeting them, in whatever condition or reality God chooses for his sons and daughters to be.

Johnny Davis
As to the "light," let me read the scripture. Don't recall and have not thought of that one.

Charles Page
interesting, Sing, Paul referenced proxy baptism for the dead, salvation for the unbelieving spouse.

I am inclined to think that salvation that is referenced here in Acts 16 (10 as well) is not conceived in westernized individualistic terms but family/group units. Belonging is probably more central than believing.

Just thinking out loud by way of weird opinions!!!

Johnny Davis
Good thought, Charles, and in the culture of that day, the household probably went along with the man or head of the house, in everything. I suspect, though, that was done, in the Jewish culture, not out of fear, though that element may have been present. The hearts of the household would have to be receptive to God, for their conversion to have meaning, regardless if baptized or not, for example. As they were "saved" then that must have been their situation, not "obeying" the head, as the Muslim culture now requires, but from love.

Sing F Lau
Charles, when did you imbibe mormonistic idea of baptism for the dead?

Take a look here:
http://letgodbetrue.com/questions/baptism-for-dead.htm.
What is the Baptism for the Dead?

Sing F Lau
Hey look, I am an easterner. I think as an easterner, and reason as an easterner. So, where is the neutral zone we can talk some sense?

Charles Page
Didn't say i believe it...but that Paul referenced it in I Cor. I am not fully convinced that the parents cannot bring an infant to the pastor for baptism and not just dedication. There still seems to be an argument for proxy parenting for children.

We westerners are wierd! I know ...but my eternal salvation secured in heaven makes me feel free to think out of the box without fear of what men may think. I certainly would not be acting like a crazy man carrying signs in front of an institution that will never heed my call to repent.

Sing F Lau
I surely like that statement: "but my eternal salvation secured in heaven makes me feel free to think out of the box without fear of what men may think." I feel very liberated too... which is why I am learning precious truth because I dare question the great 'reformers'!

I believe there is salvation by proxy... in the temporal salvation. Believing parents save their children from the many evils that pervade the degenerating society now.

Charles Page
...but, it gets me in soooo much trouble! God wants our minds blazing and not just smouldering!

Johnny Davis
What about priests, and last rites (to "cover" sins not prayed for)? The scripture on "the dead" baptism, etc. was what? Need to study that.

Sing F Lau
I need no priest. Me myself and I am a member of the royal priesthood, with Christ alone as my High Priest.

If I hadn't believed in baptism for the dead, I would never have been baptized... it was because I was already dead in Christ, I submitted to baptism.

Baptism is for those who know they are dead in Christ!

Charles Page
My guess is that baptism for the dead was for those whose acquaintances had passed and though they had eternal salvation they had not lived up to temporal salvation and it was a possible measure to pray for their lives in hades they knew about and knew they were in need of desperate measures. If you participate in funerals you know there are people whose lives were not prepared for death. Arminians lose all hope that they are in the "lake of fire" but Bible-believing people know about eternal salvation and do not lose all hope but trust in a just God who does show wrath to ungodly regenerates.

Perhaps they are pleading for mercy. We have lost this today due to the Arminian heresies that are dominant today! 

Preach the word: some implication for the hearers

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season...

2 Timothy

4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The solemn implications for Timothy's flock:

Implication 1
4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2. Hear the word; be instant in season, out of season; receive reproof, rebuke, exhortation with patience and sound mind!!!

Implication 2
The congregation has the divine right to demand that the word of God be preached from the pulpit! They have the divine right to insist that nothing but the word of God be preached to them.

Implication 3
The congregation is under solemn obligation to remove from the pulpit men who do not, and would not preach the word of God, but something else!

Adam
Very good implications!

It would seem to me that if the congregation was adamant about the word of God, it would be very difficult for a man to speak otherwise. Men preach something else, because that is what the people want to hear.

Charles
Nehemiah 8:4

Sing
Last evening, in our weekly Bible study, we went through Neh 8.

"And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel."

"... And they spake unto Ezra the scribe TO BRING OUT the book of the law of Moses..."

How I wish people will stand up and demand... "Preach from the Bible, the word of God."

Manuel R Briva
Pulpits nowadays are filled with manpleasing messages, unnecessary quotes, annecdotes from reformers , quotes from confessions of faith & masterful seminary trained patterned preaching except the pure Gospel. Thank God it's not so with the Old Baptists! God be merciful for not leaving us in darkness.

The time of the Death and Resurrection of Christ

 

April 10, 2020  ·

Just one question related to the time of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The first 24-hour day of the Jewish week consists of the 12-hr evening (6pm-6am) and 12-hr morning (6am-6pm); i.e. evening (Sat 6pm-Sun 6am) and morning (Sun 6am-Sun 6pm).

Genesis 1:5 KJV
And God called the light Day, the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
============

Comments

Dhong
I think it will depend on what day you place the death of Christ. If it is on Wednesday then it would be after 6pm of Saturday.

If you place the death of Christ on Thursday then it would be after 6am on the first day of the week or Sunday.

Sing
Dhong, which day do you put the day of Christ's death, and why?

Dhong
Sing: Taking into consideration the 3days and 3nights, It will be Wednesday. And when the women went into the grave it was yet dark and when they arrived the angel declared that Christ was already risen.
[sing: It was yet dark because they came very early on Sunday morning, before dawn!]

Reggie
Dhong: don’t let the sabbath throw u off. A high holy day is also a sabbath. So, you can have 2 sabbaths in a row. Crucified on a Thursday gives you three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.. placing a risen Savior on Sunday Morning. But, I think Sing’s question has an element to it, how early was the resurrection? Sunday morning is actually our Monday morning at 5-6am.

Dhong
Reggie: If Jewish time reckoning is sundown to sunrise is 👉 night , then sunrise to sundown 👉day then the resurrection would have taken place after sunrise to complete the 3days and 3nights factor of Christ resurrection prophecy.

Sing
Reggie Lee @ "...Sunday morning is actually our Monday morning at 5-6am.'
-------
What do you mean??????????????????????????????????????????

Dhong
Sing: What's your stand on this matter? On what day do you place Christ's death on the cross?

Sing
My stand is the soapbox!
Christ died around Thur 3pm; He was buried shortly.

Reggie,
Sing hey, I went 24 hours too far... I’m trying to put Mary at the tomb before sunrise. And the Jewish days go from 6 am to 6 am..

Philip
Reggie: Jewish days go from 6pm to 6pm. Evening starts the day!

Dellis
Doesn't the High day, mentioned in John 19, have a significance ?

Sing
High day is the Annual Sabbath, distinct from the weekly Sabbath.

Dellis
Sing: But does it have to fall on a Saturday?

Sing
I don't know. From the Scriptures, the day after the crucifixion is the High Day (an annual sabbath) followed by the weekly Sabbath.

Dellis
Sing, agreed.
Christ arose on the first day of the week

[sing: first day of the week is Sun6am-6pm; first night of the week is Sat6m-Sun6am. A 24hr Jewish day is 12hr night and 12hr day, from 6pm to 6pm.]

Reggie
Dellis: No

Sing
Read Mt 28... pay attention to those elite Romans Marines posted to guard the tomb - to ensure that the dead remain in the tomb, and not stolen, to discredit Christ's claim - and their fleeing from the tomb to the city to report what they had witnessed.

What time did they flee from the tomb and rushed to the city?

I take it as an incontrovertible fact that the resurrection of Christ was marked by an earthquake, just as His death was similarly marked by an earthquake. Mt 27:50-54.

If any disagree, tell us why.

Dhong
Sing: The earthquake signified that Christ has resurrected from the dead and when the women came to the tomb it was early in the morning of the first day of the week. Suffice it to say that there was 3days and 3nights and Christ resurrected as prophesied in the holy writ.

[sing: First day of the week begins at Sunday 6am; first night of the week begins at Sat 6pm]

Sing
Dhong, so which day was Christ put to death?

Dhong
Sing: John 19:31 "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

[sing: The Passover day was followed by the annual sabbath day (an high day); then the weekly sabbath.]

Buddy
The Scriptures tell us that " as Jonah was 3 days and and 3 nights in the whales' belly so shall the Son of man be." One natural day is 24 hrs. It's constant wherever you are. Therefore 3 days and 3 nights is 72 hrs. Based on Jewish calendar, Christ died 3pm Wed and resurrected 3pm Saturday. And on Sun., He was already alive! You need not be a mathematician to compute that, just count the rotation of the clock. To check, reverse the counting. If your resurrection is Sun., so what time? The Bible says early dawn nearing the first day of the week (Sun.), Jesus Christ was already alive! HE IS ALIVE TODAY AND FOREVER.!!!

Sing
Salvator, I like your mathematically precise approach that 3d3n MUST BE exactly 72hrs, no more no less. I don't know if that is ever the way language is commonly used then or even today. To me it is an idea arbitrarily imposed upon the Scriptures out of thin air.

Just one difficulty: the 3d3n=72hr notion would mean the chief priests and the Pharisees, the contemporaries, ALSO couldn't count. Perhaps. And they requested the elite guards to be posted for the night, the first evening of the Jewish week, between Sat 6pm- Sun 6am.

Mt 27
62¶Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
63Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
64Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

[Salvador deleted his comments!]

Buddy
Sing For clarification In Matt.27:62 that you presented "the next day" there, what day was that"?

Sing
Did Christ say 3days and 3 nights or did He say 3 night and 3 days?
Would the former mean rising after the 3rd night; the latter, rising after the 3rd day?
What do you think?

Buddy
Sing: I think all people (including the Pharisees, et al) wherever they are, understand what 3 days and 3 nights mean. It is 3 natural (whole) days, which is equavalent to 72 hrs. If night time here, other areas are daytime. Still the time reckoning is the same, 24 hrs in one whole day. Jonah 1:17 and Matt.12: 38-40 tell us " 3days and 3nights". In the creation account of days, it is repeatedly mentioned "the evening and the morning" as one day - Gen.1: 5,8,13,19,23,31.

Christ said in John 11:9 - "Are there not 12 hrs in a day?" - meaning daytime. In the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John presented this subjects about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ in varied circumstances but they are not contradictory, they compliment each other. There are impt. events to consider that transpired prior to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, that lead me to come up with the said prior presentation.

Would you mind to pls. present your view of what day and time did Christ die?

Sing
Salvador, I don't begin with the premise that the usage of 3 days and 3 nights in common usage requires a 3 full 12hr-day and 3 full 12hr-night, though that is mathematically precise.

At least the chief priests and the Pharisees didn't have such a notion. If they had, they wouldn't have posted the Romans guards after the resurrection had occurred.

They did take Christ's claim seriously; they certainly could count; they, being contemporaries, were certainly in a better position to understand the numbers involved.

That's my view about the 3d3n phrase.

PJ Walters
There was a saying among the Jews that part of a day is considered a day.

Buddy
Sing The Scriptures is clear from Jonah 1:17 and Matt.12:38-40 "3days and 3nights". God is not the author of confusion and I stand to what I presented. For the sake of argument, setting aside mathematics. Just using common sense by comparing and making 2 circles by putting nos. of Jewish time reckoning and Roman (Gentile) time frame. The former is 6 to 6 and the latter 12 to 12. Using the KJV of the Bible, we read various events that transpired prior to the death, burial and resurrection of Christ - Matt.27 and other Gospels.

Crucifixion - Mark 15:25 -third hour (9am Gentile time).

Total darkness - Mark 15:33 - sixth hour til ninth hour - (12 Nn til 3pm Gentile time). Pls refer to Matt. 27 regarding these events. Matt. 27:46-50 - about the ninth hour (3pm Gentile time) He expired.

Resurrection - Matt.28:1-6; Mark 16:1-2.

Now, Christ died 3pm as the Scriptures present. We are told that "as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" ; "very early in the morning the first day of the week", Christ was already alive!

Again, let us go back to the "3days and 3nights". Christ died the "ninth hour" (3pm Gentile time, Sat.) If we compare the 2 circles made and reverse the rotation regarding the 3d and 3n, we can get precisely the 3pm Wed time. That is my common sense of presentation. Others claim a Fri. death scenario and that fall very short of time reckoning. May I know what you think, bro. Lau?

Sing
Thanks Brother. I have no issue with the 3d3n phrase; I do when that is equated as 3 12hr days and 3 12hr night, 72hrs and no less.

Also the hours around the Sunday dawn are within the time frame of "very early in the morning the first day of the week." [First day of the week begins at Sun 6am; first night of the week begins at Sat 6pm]

The first day of the week starts at 6am Sunday. The first one or two hours of the first day of the week are within the "very early in the morning the first of the week."

Also, the hours around the Sunday dawn are within the time frame of "very early in the morning the first day of the week." early in the morning the first of the week."

Buddy
Sing: Agreed and welcome bro. Lau. 

Dellis
Mark 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I take this to mean He rose again on the third day not after the third day

Christ was taken down at the end of Thursday and He lay Fri. Sat. and rose on Sunday. the third day.

Reggie
See, that’s where I got that idea of mixing our thinking with biblical time... it actually put me Monday morning at 530 to 6 am...

Sing
Matthew 27:64 KJV — Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
*until the third day*

Sing
Luke 24:21 KJV — "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."
*to day is the third day since these things were done*

- what day were those words spoken?
- what day were those things done?

Henry 
The women went early before signup he was already risen! Wir

Sing
While they were on the way, the resurrection took place, marked by that thunderous earthquake of rejoicing.

PJ Walters
To me what makes sense is a Thursday crucifixion since the Jews of that time understood part of day as a day.

Thursday: crucifixion and burial before sundown. Day 1.
Thursday night: lying in the tomb. Night 1.
Friday: lying in the tomb. Day 2.
Friday night: lying in the tomb. Night 2.
Saturday: lying in the tomb. Day 3.
Saturday night: lying in the tomb and resurrecting before sunrise. Night 3.

Noteworthy to mention: Friday was a high sabbath, so anointing a body during that time would not be permitted. Saturday was the weekly sabbath, so no anointing was permitted then, either. This tells us that no disciples would have been visiting the tomb friday or Saturday, so there was no chance of them stealing the body.

The women would have set out as early as they could before sunrise since the first day of the week would have been their earliest opportunity to anoint his body, but they didn't get to the tomb until a little after dawn.

Concerning the disciples on the road to Emmaus, Saturday night would have been the beginning of the 1st day of the week, so it would have been "the third day since these things were done."

Sing
PJ Walters, That makes lots of sense.

"Let us go on unto perfection..."

"Therefore leaving the principles of
the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection..."
Hebrews 6:1a 

April 10, 2023

"Let us go on unto perfection*..."

1. Stuck, not going on...

Hebrews 5
12 ¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Note: we can be stuck in so many ways; stuck in erroneous teaching, in traditions, etc.

2. Call to Go On unto Maturity
Hebrews 6:1a "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection..."

a. Who are called to go on unto perfection?
- those who were once enlightened,
- those who have tasted of the heavenly gift,
- those who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
- those who have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come.  (Hebrews 6:4-5.)

Some of these, according to their works, receive blessing: others, according to their works too, are nigh unto cursing, whose temporal end is to be burned.

The solemn truth is illustrated thus...

3. Two Responses and their Consequences

Hebrews 6
7 ¶For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Verse 7-8 speak of those mentioned in verse 4-5, those who have been so blessed.

*perfection: maturity.

Risen early the first day of the week

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week."
Mark 16:9 
Sat 6pm-Sun 6am is the first night of the week; 
Sun 6am-Sun 6pm is the first day of the week.
"early the first day of the week" is after Sun at 6am.

Mark 15
42 ¶ And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.

Pilate and the centurion will testify against the liars who said Jesus didn't die but only passed out... and thus did not rise again!

PJ
Blood and water came out of His side. This means, according to a medical professor, He had been dead for at least 30 minutes. Besides that, Roman soldiers were so acquainted with death that their methods of determining one's death were foolproof.

Charles
The crucifixion had to be finished before sundown to meet Jewish obligations. He died before the other two.

PJ
He also had to die before sundown in order to be put in the grave at sundown so that the three days and three nights would be fulfilled and that Joseph would not be breaking the Sabbath on that Wednesday evening.

Charles
Wednesday?

PJ
Yes, the day after that Wednesday was a Sabbath. The day after that Sabbath was Friday, and then there was the weekly sabbath on the last day of the week. Christ arose at evening on the Saturday.

Charles
oh kay!... taking steps backwards - don't want to enter this room!

Charles
To be honest I am staying home today from any kirsche activities including protesting. This easter mess is perplexing. I am watching Public Broadcasting's version of Christianity. This is my Ea***r celebration! Christ has risen I am certain either yesterday or today, I am certain!

Sing
Those who insist on the exact 72 hrs of 3 12hrs nights and 3 12hrs days MUST have this arrangement:

Their 72 hrs 3 12hr-NIGHTS and 3 12hr-DAYS sequence is like this:
Christ was buried shortly before Wed 6pm

Tues 6pm - Wed 6am --- eating Passover meal... prayer at the mount... arrest
Wed 6am - Wed 6pm --- kangaroo trial, crucifixion, and burial before 6pm...
(Why were they rushing to have Christ buried?)
Wed 6pm - Thu 6am night --- 1st evening/night
Thu 6am - Thu 6pm day ---- 1st morning/day
Thu 6pm - Fri 6am night ---- annual sabbath evening/night
Fri 6am - Fri 6pm day ---- annual sabbath morning/day
Fri 6pm - Fri 6am night ---- weekly sabbath evening/night
Sat 6am - Sat 6pm day. ---- weekly sabbath morning/day

That means Christ rose shortly after Sat 6pm., the first night of the new week

Therefore they believe that Christ was risen early the first evening of the week!

BUT Scriptures say this:
Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week.

It doesn't say the first EVENING of the week.
Early the first evening of the week is shortly after Sat 6pm.
Early the first day of the week is shortly after Sunday 6am.

The day before the annual sabbath day was the Passover.
The day after the Passover is the annual high sabbath.
The day after the annual high sabbath is the weekly Sabbath!

But the 72hrs 3 12hr-days and 3 12hr-nights scheme has inserted an extra day between the Passover and the Annual High Sabbath - as indicated above. That's what happens when men 'out-literal' the Scriptures!

Inserting one extra day is no worse than inserting thousands of years between the 69th week and the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy!

Charles
I heard Jimmy Swagart talk about this years ago!

Sing
These four days are in consecutive order:
Passover: Wed 6pm to Thu 6pm
Annual high sabbath: Thu 6pm to Fri 6pm
Weekly sabbath: Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm
First day of the week: Sat 6pm to Sun 6pm

Mr 15:42 "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath..."

When the evening 6pm was come, the Passover Day is over, and the Preparation Day began. And this Preparation Day was the day before the weekly sabbath day.

So we have the sequence of THREE DAYS – the Passover Day, the Preparation Day (the annual Sabbath), and the weekly Sabbath day.

Sing
He swaggers too much for my liking!

Charles
His swagger got him in big trouble!
oh, I shouldn't have said that!!!

Charles
Not necessarily, if it had been the Sabbath it would have been before dusk and surely the soldiers would relate that. It surely was on the first day of the week and before dawn! Too much Roman security for that detail to go unnoticed!

Sing
I am referring the the popular idea among the PBs - Jesus was buried around Wed 6pm and rose around Sat 6pm - in order to get the exact 3 12hr nights and 3 12hr days.

That requires INSERTING an additional day into the days surrounding the death and resurrection of Christ.

Passover >>> high sabbath >>> ANOTHER DAY >>> weekly sabbath >> first night of week.

---------6pm ------ 72hrs of 3 12hr nights and 3 12hr days ------ 6pm

But it is stated plainly in Mr 15:42

"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath..."

THREE DISTINCT and SEPARATE days are mentioned in this verse.

When the evening 6pm was come, the Passover day was over, and the Preparation day (high sabbath) began. And this preparation day was the day before the weekly sabbath day.

So we have the sequence of THREE CONSECUTIVE DAYS:
- the Passover Day, (Wed 6pm - Thu 6pm
- the Preparation Day (the annual sabbath) (Thu 6pm - Fri 6pm)
- the weekly sabbath day. (Fri 6pm - Sat 6pm)
- the first day of the week (Sat 6pm-Sun 6am night, Sun 6am-6pm day)

These four days are in consecutive order:
Passover: Wed 6pm to Thu 6pm
Annual high sabbath: Thu 6pm to Fri 6pm
Weekly sabbath: Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm
First day of the week: Sat 6pm to Sun 6pm

That position requires the INSERTION of an extra day between the high sabbath and the regular weekly sabbath - to have the 3 12hr nights and 3 12hr days between Wed 6pm and Sat 6pm.

But Mark 15:42 "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath..."

Johnny
He WAS risen. He IS risen. He WILL ALWAYS be risen. He was in the tomb three days (your guess is as good as mine, whether three noons passed, the period was 72 hours, WHATEVER - it was "three days.". That is perhaps the "biggest deal," of all humanity, perhaps second only to creation. Which three days is "no big deal." Especially, considering the true-heart motivation behind proving or disproving something.

Charles
Why does it have to be 72 hrs?

Sing
Why? They who insist such are just arbitrary and double standard!
Words like that are hardly understood in such a wooden literal exact manner in their daily life!

Do they ever use words in such a way in their daily life?
If it had been 66 hrs, would that have been just as truly '3d3n'?

Johnny
Good point, Sing. Now, IF we knew the Roman calendar we use today, was reconciled to the hour, of whatever calender was used at the time Jesus made the prophesy (which would have to be proven without any scientific doubt, to me, before it would matter to me, what "3 days" actually means), and removing all other bias, for a strickly scientific analysis, perhaps it would be a significant endeavor. I think, though (sorry, I'm thinking, and not judging intent), the whole question, was originally, and carried down (perhaps sub-consciously), from a rejection of Catholicism. If true, then there's another reason I say, it matters not. Jesus prophesied, 3 days. He rose after three days. All in scripture. That's all I care about. It's ok, debaters on this issue. It's ok, to accept truth, without PROVING it. That's what faith is all about.

Charles
so can I accept that it was 40 hours and that be OK?

Sing
Johnny @ "Jesus prophesied, 3 days. He rose after three days."
++++++++

Is that '3 days' to be understood as not less than 72 hrs as many want to insist?

Sing
Charles: so can I accept that it was 40 hours and that be OK?
========
Charles, given 3d 3n, I believe it is understood that the term MUST include at least one of them... whether day or night, to be 3 full 12 hrs.

For example: ddd nnnnnn dddddd nnnnnn dddddd nnnnnn d

So we have 3 full nights, 2 full days, plus bits of day at both end!

The above most certainly qualifies for 3 days and 3 nights... even though it is technically less than 72hrs. 40 hrs would be far too little to qualify for 3d 3n!

Charles
u stuttering???

Johnny
I "accept" the scripture, and prayerfully beyond having to prove that which can simply be accepted. What I would be interested in understanding, is WHY three days is significant (if it is). I suspect there is a reason why, as I have yet to find anything arbitrary in God's word. There is ALWAYS a reason.

Sing
My interest is that Christ's words are true.

Those who said Christ was buried on Wednesday evening and rose shortly after Saturday 6pm, and the Bad Fridayers make Christ to be a liar!

Johnny
My point is that our human efforts do not matter in determining which day, to "prove" the truth. Enjoyable perhaps as a human exercise, and of about as much merit as running a race from physical exercise, but that's about all that matters. Especially when exercising criticism of other human efforts. Christ is not a liar, God cannot lie, and no one, most likely, is attempting to prove that they are not telling the truth when they said in their Word "three days."

Sing
No, the truth need not be proven. Even if no one cares, the truth remains the truth.

But I care... I want to know the truth. I want to know the truth... and know to my best ability what Christ has said... and its most likely meaning.

Whatever you do believe, it will not alter the truth the slightest bit. That I agree with you.
But I do want to know the truth.

But Christ did say...
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Johnny
Good reasoning, Sing. That is why we have the liberty, to learn with scientific assurance, what we consider important, and to accept on faith most may be MOST important, and even of minimal importance. I suspect with your training and heart, on this subject, that what you find, may just match the exact truth. But there is always the probability, that, an occurrence over 2,000 years ago, given not only the time, but records based on man's history, what we conclude, will have some element of incomplete truth. For me, though I appreciate analysis, it is simply "no big deal," yet am glad it is to some.

Sing
It is a big deal to me if my belief gives reasonable occasion for someone to slander Jesus as a liar! That is no big deal to many.