Salvation - past, present, and future
Let's reason a little!
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason
together, saith the LORD.
1. The PAST is what God HAS ALREADY DONE in
Christ to have you saved with eternal salvation...
- He purposed your eternal redemption...
- Christ accomplished your eternal
redemption...
- The Holy Spirit applied the eternal
redemption to you personally...
All these activities are completely by free
grace alone, plus nothing, and completed perfectly. As a result, you ARE
SAVED... as saved as can be while here on earth, and you are completely and
perfectly fit for eternal glory.
These divine activities are WITHOUT and APART
from the gospel ministry.
There is gospel, good news, ONLY BECAUSE these divine
acts HAVE TAKEN PLACE! If these divine activities securing eternal salvation
had not taken place, there would have been NO GOSPEL. There is gospel because
of what God HAS DONE to save His people in Christ Jesus and applied by the Holy
Spirit.
2. The PRESENT is what you, God's children, must do to work out your OWN salvation through your obedience to the Father's will. God works in His children to will and do, but they must will and do the good pleasure of the Father.
This salvation that God's children must work out
for themselves is entirely different from the eternal salvation already
accomplished and applied to them personally. This salvation is ongoing,
involving their temporal well-being as God's children. This is temporal
salvation through the gospel ministry, ministered by faithful men.
3. The FUTURE is what God WILL DO to consummate
your eternal redemption at Christ's return. You await glorification. And this
will be completely by free grace too - WITHOUT any aid or cooperation from men!
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Sing F Lau
The issue of earning God's favour does not
arise. It is temporal salvation CONDITIONED upon obedience just as you affirmed
- "... IF we only love Him with all our heart and all our soul and all our
strength and all our mind... IF we believe and lay hold on the promises that
God has made."
Sing
And IF you don't obey... then what?
[Someone has deleted all his/her comments]
Sing
If temporal salvation is CONDITIONED upon
your works of obedience, then it is no more grace in the sense that eternal
salvation is of grace.
Anything that requires man's activity is no more grace alone.
If you want to have multiple layers, it is fine... a layer of oil, and a layer of water - one salvation by grace alone, and one salvation conditioned on the obedience of God's children.
Sing F Lau
I don't need to separate them... they already
are!
Grace alone is grace alone... requiring no
part of man.
John Flores
"Grace alone is grace alone... requiring
no part of man.
Anything that requires man's activity is no
more grace alone." Well said Pastor Lau. (Romans 11:6)
Sing F Lau
Let me just get one thing clear... and let's
stick to the issue at hand.
Is there a timely salvation that is
CONDITIONED upon the obedience of God's children? Yes, or no.
There is no need to bring in other issues. If
you can keep to this one issue, comment.
Johnny Davis
@Elder Ellis. Regarding the salvation, your
comment affirms the signs on Sing's sign in all directions. My question is not
to provide a license to intentionally commit sin or wrongdoing, but are there
ANY conditions attached to man's life on earth (such as correct understanding
of God's Word, church attendance) that have consequences on the
"future" aspect of God's continued forgiveness? Guess my question is,
do the signs represent God's time (spiritual), or man's time (physical).
Thanks. We've not spoken for a while. I miss your insights from our Father.
Sing F Lau
Penny Karn @ "I believe so Sing!"
You believe what?????? That there is a timely
salvation by God's grace that can be obtained WITHOUT human obedience?
In your effort to magnify grace, you have
actually DENIGRATED and CHEAPENED grace... i.e. insisting both eternal
salvation and temporal salvation are equally by the same grace.
If both are equally by God's grace, then all
of God's elect are equally saved BOTH in the eternal and temporal sense,
without any human activities. But that's denying the HARD facts of Scriptures.
That's not elevating grace... that destroying
grace... making the grace of God incapable of accomplishing its goal.
Scriptures is its own witness:
Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more
of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it
no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
You just won't keep them apart! You cheapen
grace by mixing it with works!
Never mind, go learn from your husband!
Johnny Davis
@Penny. Let me first give my current belief
on the subject of God's grace CONDITIONED on man. IF (another
"condition"), the Word is available to an individual man, THEN
(satisfaction of "condition") the responsibility falls on that
individual, by God from His placing that individual in time and place, to know
of God (more specifically, come to believe the gospel of Jesus, as Messiah from
the sin world). That responsibility lies both with the unbelieving or untaught
individual, and Chrstians, able by our example in life and love for man, to
teach. So, disregarding whether that is 100% true, and the unbelieving
American, becomes a believer by having heard the Word, and BELIEVES and
receives the Holy Spirit, confesses, repents, and is even submersed in water in
baptism, THEN, are there CONDITIONS as Sing speaks of, regarding BOTH, the life
with God in the body, and the life with God eternally in the spirit. I'm not
wishing to extend the nature of God, to those never having the ability by time
and place to "hear." For the moment, only we, having been given by
God, the Word. And, not as a license to live in the flesh, afterwards (please,
don't go there) - I'm interested in knowing the truth of God's Word, from our
time and place, in God's creation on Earth.
Sing F Lau
Penny Karn @ "But I think it is worth
adding that temporal salvation is still completely by grace..."
=======
That's a completely erroneous statement - no
matter how one qualifies and hedges it!!!
"Completely by grace" necessarily
RULES out completely any human activities.
That statement insists that there is temporal
salvation that is COMPLETELY without any human activities. And that's just
sheer nonsense.
And she still goes blah blah blah!!!
I'm puzzled!!
Johnny Davis
@Sing. Gotta stab atch-'ya. We're not in
formal worship service. You have a wonderful wife, from the photos. And, I'd
bet she is as intelligent and smart, as God made her beautiful. You might want
to "go learn from your wife!" some manners. Ladies are better at
that, than we testosterone driven guys, most of the time.
Johnny Davis ·
@Sing. It was an intentional, personal stab
at YOU, not for your anything about the subject, but purely to illustrate how
the "stabs" you make at others, MAY come across to them as hateful.
In that regard, it was a "loving" stab, intended to be
"light-natured." I'll not make another, because more and more, just
leads to the likelihood of mean spirit, sinful. It is the type of thing to say
to me, personally, and why I do not ask you questions, anymore, though the
answers have been helpful, even when given in an inappropriate spirit. I'll
continue to gleen from your status, what God intended to reveal to your
readers, but, communication, from me, will no longer to initiated to you,
difrectly. Hope you understand, my heart's intent, prayerfully. Love you.
Sing F Lau
Johnny Davis, I know you are a tender
kindhearted man - I don't think you are ever capable of being mean and hateful.
May be I don't have the finesse people
expected of me... that's an art I have not cultivated. Easier to speak plain
and blunt.
Johnny Davis
@Sing. You have the heart of God, without
doubt.
Cheri Thomas
Stick to your guns, Bro Sing. I appreciate
your 'strong meat' and plain words.
Sing F Lau
Penny, whoever your teachers may be, it is
most certainly NOT the Holy Spirit who taught you to believe that Eph 2:1-8 is
an example of timely salvation!
Have you even understood the concept of
timely salvation?????
Go, please get your husband to teach you a thing or two.
