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| The Perseverance of the Saints in the State of grace versus The Perseverance of the Saints in a life of faith and holiness. These two are completely different; A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology. |
The Gospel of Grace & the Perseverance of the Saints - how the Calvinists perceive it, and Pervert it.
Peterboy quoted a renowned Calvinist
"One must believe in the perseverance of
the saints if one is to accurately present the gospel of grace. To do anything
else is to edit the gospel"
Sing inquired:
What does Mr Calvinist mean by perseverance
of the saints? Thanks.
Peterboy replied:
He means exactly what the Biblical doctrine
says Sing. He means that by the power of preserving grace made effective upon
sinners by the sacrifice of Christ and applied by the Holy Spirit, men are
saved to the uttermost.
Sing inquired further, noting those words as
a load of shibboleth:
Does Mr Calvinist mean this:
- God by His sovereign power keeps all the
saints in a life of faith and holiness, and thus they persevere in a life of
faith and holiness to the end of their life; thus no saint can backslide and
fall away from the faith,
or this:
- God by His sovereign power keeps all the
saints in the same state of grace into which He had effectually called them by
the same power, thus they remain in the same state of grace?
Which of the above is the gospel?
Which is a lie?
Which of the above is 'hyper-calvinism' and
which is calvinism?
Peterboy replied:
I'm sorry, I don't have time to deal with
your "hyper-Calvinism" right now. You are welcome to check out my
recent vid destroying the mass though.
There is no difference between the two, buddy.
The first one just goes deeper.
Sing responded:
If you can't perceive the VAST difference
between the two concepts of perseverance, then I should just leave it. Thanks.
============
p/s
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound
theology.
If you can perceive the vast distinction
between the two concepts of perseverance, leave your comments.
Charles Page
Peterboy wants to edit the gospel! As do all modern-day Calvinists. The five points are moderated. It seems you can't moderate one point without moderating all the points. The five are interconnected and unedited make for a sovereign God in saving men.
Charles Page
it is the reason Whitefield and Wesley could
minister together!
Sing F Lau
"God by His sovereign power keeps all
the saints in the same state of grace into which he had effectually called them
by the same power, thus they remain in the same state of grace."
=====
Concerning the above statement, Horn blares:
"Insofar as that statement is a denial
of man's responsibility to persevere it can be seen as hypercalvinism which
does just that."
Horn, do you then make man's responsibility
to persevere a condition to his eternal salvation by God? I ask to clarify.
Calvinists often use the terms divine
sovereignty and human responsibility.
May I suggest that the context of the terms
is eternal salvation by free grace, and the temporal salvation (that which
pertains to the well-being of God's children) conditioned on the responsibility
of God's children to work out their own salvation.
God's children, those ALREADY bestowed with
eternal salvation by free grace and destined for eternal glory, are held
responsible to work out their own salvation - which is temporal in nature,
pertaining to their well-being as God's children. Their perseverance has no
relation to their entry into eternal glory. Being held responsible to work out
their own salvation does not guarantee that each and every one will do so, and
do so to the end of their life.
Calvinists insist otherwise... that all will
persevere to the end. If not, hell and the lake of fire they go.... and they say
that is the pure gospel of grace, the full unedited gospel!
Otherwise, you end up making the perseverance
of God's children in faith and holiness as a CONDITION to their finally being
saved, i.e eternal salvation.
Sing F Lau
Peterboy, you are too cocksure! Listen to a
Calvinist far more learned than you are, and he said this in his Systematic
Theology. You have COMPLETELY misplaced the doctrine of the Perseverance of the
Saints. You think like an Arminian, and call others hypercalvinism.
Louis Berkhof, a pretty respected Calvinist,
stated this: read and think for a while before you go blah blah blah.
“The doctrine of perseverance requires
careful statement, especially in view of the fact that the term “perseverance
of the saints” is liable to misunderstanding. It should be noted first of all
that the doctrine is not merely to the effect that the elect will certainly be
saved in the end… but teaches very specifically that they who have once been
regenerated and effectually called by God to a STATE OF GRACE, can never
completely fall from THAT STATE and thus fail to attain to eternal salvation,
though they may sometimes be overcome by evil and fall in sin…"
(capitalized emphasis mine, sing). Systematic, pg 545.
Effectually called into the STATE OF GRACE...
by the same power of God kept to remain in that STATE OF GRACE - entirely by
the power and grace of God.
WCF states the same... it is about the STATE
they were brought into... and kept in the SAME STATE. It is not about saints
persevering in faith and holiness to the end.
SEE THE MASSIVE SHIFT... from God's work of
keeping His saints in the SAME STATE... to saints' work of living a life of
faith and holiness to the end! That's edited gospel! That's no more gospel...
that's work-based gospel.
The STATE OF GRACE is completely different
from a life of perseverance in faith and holiness!
There is a MAJOR shift of emphasis to equate or
confuse the two!
To confuse the two is to confuse life on the
one hand, and robust health on the other.
God gives eternal life, and guarantees to
keep us in that eternal life. It is a great mistake to understand that promise
as He will keep us in a robust health. To attain robust health, those who have
been given eternal life MUST WORK... WORK... WORK... with fear and trembling
their own salvation of spiritual health and robustness!
Being brought into that state of grace and
kept in that state of grace is ENTIRELY by the free grace of not, not
conditioned or dependent anything in, of, or by man. But to persevere in a life of
faith and holiness is conditioned upon the obedience of God's children.... some
make a shipwreck of their faith like Lot and Saul and Samson... others fare better.
Give up the edited gospel... return to the
true gospel of grace!
Sing F Lau
cocksure |ˈkäkˈ sh oŏr|
adjective
presumptuously or arrogantly confident!
