Scruples about "once saved always saved."

LeongSy
Dr Ezra does not subscribe to the "Once saved always saved" mantra.
What do you think?

Sing
I assume that when a man disagrees with something, he MUST have understood what he disagrees with. Otherwise, he is at best unwise or at worst, foolish.

On "once saved always saved" - let me inquire,

Let him who disagrees with "once saved always saved" tell us, "once saved always saved by WHOM, and from WHAT?"

Can you tell us what "once saved always saved " means? Thank you

LeongSy
I don't call anyone a fool coz I don't think I am better than them. You may contact Dr Ezra directly if you want him to answer your questions.

Sing
You have an interest in the NPP scholars and Dr Ezra. I don't. So, you interact with them.

If you have specific questions, I can answer them. You don't need to tell me what this Dr. believes and what that Prof. doesn't. If you do, like you tell me about "once saved, always saved", then I have to help you think through the subject.

I'm not calling anyone a fool, but making a general statement that if a man disagrees with what he does even understand, then he is acting foolishly indeed.

So, once saved always saved by WHO, and from WHAT?

If a man can't answer these questions correctly, then what audacity to disagree with what he has not understood? If he can answer correctly, then he will see his obvious error.

The Bible does call a man a fool under various circumstances.

LeongSy
If I go n call everyone a fool, sooner than later I will hv no friends

Sing
Saying "a man who disagrees with what he does not even understand is foolish" is not the same as going around and calling everyone a fool. If you can't distinguish the two, then it would be difficult for you to rightly divide the word of truth.

LeongSy
Your words are too harsh. Honestly, you think that you are better than others

Sing
If they are, my apologies to the offended ones.

A man who denies once saved by God through Jesus Christ is immutably saved from eternal damnation preaches a different gospel; it's no gospel.

What kind of God does such a man believe - the God who has spoken in the Scriptures or a God of his own imagination?

Romans 8:30 KJV — Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What does this Scripture speak on the subject of OSAS?

Matthew 23:15 KJV — Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Was Jesus harsh in calling the proselyters the children of hell, and their proselytes the same?

Galatians 1:8 KJV — But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Is Apostle Paul harsh here?

LeongSy
Once saved always saved from eternal damnation lo. How many times v hv to go through this?

Sing
Did you apply this truth in instructing your Dr Ezra about his error on OSAS?

LeongSy
Why should a 6 yo Christian teach someone with doctorate? I am not a fool who goes around thinking others are fools

Sing
I'm very sorry to hear your answer. It's God's word, the truth of the inspired Scriptures, not you.

Apollos was far superior to Dr Ezra, but Priscilla was comfortable teaching him what the Apostle Paul had taught her.  😊😊😊.

LeongSy
I don't want to go around correcting everyone by thinking I know better than them. Let God send someone else to correct them, if they need to be corrected. I don't qualify

Sing
James 5:19 ¶Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

You don't need to go around; God, by his kind providence, brings them to you.

If you know the truth from the error on a particular subject, you are qualified and should feel responsible to tell the truth, or you just miss the opportunity of saving someone from the error of his way.. leaving the brother/sister to continue in his error.

Ok. I'm done. No need to stress you.

I'll take a month's leave. Let you interact with others.

The Lord bless you. 

For God hath appointed us to obtain salvation

#Appointed #Appointor #Appointees

Such an appointment presupposes a Divine Appointor, who freely and sovereignly appoints those dead in trespasses and sins and justly deserving of eternal wrath. No, He didn't consult you or ask for your approval or request your acceptance of the appointment. If He had done so, you would still be in your native state of sin and condemnation.

And the appointees are spared that wrath because the Redeemer appointed as their substitute bore and took away that wrath by His righteousness and blood, thus redeeming all them that were appointed unto salvation in Christ Jesus.

-------

appoint:
2 Determine or decide on
2.1archaic Decree.: ‘such laws are appointed by God’

‘As His sovereignty extends to His worship, so it is His sole prerogative to appoint the laws of His worship, to command of His subjects the way they ought to worship Him.’ See less

The Protestants' Priestcraft?

August 3,  2021

#protestants_priestcraft
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid033PXQnLsFmVYg99D4EFi8beBsKoa4pFFbPCSWjKHxkeRpBNNgaFz8SiAzLNfDfjeBl

Many preachers love one, and loath the other! Naturally! But when their hearers also love the same injurious lie, great indeed is the delusion! They foolishly rest their eternal salvation (since regeneration involves one's eternal salvation) in the hands of preachers, and some of them are no more than hirelings!

John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
- [i.e. no exception; every elect is regenerated the exact small way, IMMEDIATELY without means, not mediately with means. ]

Is it hard to understand this? Or is the truth too humbling for the high-minded preachers to swallow?

Supposing you were the dead Lazarus lying in the tomb, would you rather have Christ acting on you DIRECTLY, or would you rather have Him acting on you INDIRECTLY through the activities of His apostles, to bring you out of death?

The former keeps the apostles properly in their place, while the latter deceitfully elevates them to be mediators!

John 11
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, loose him, and let him go.

It was only AFTER Christ Himself had ALREADY raised Lazarus that He summoned His disciples to do something for living Lazarus, i.e. to set him free from the hindrances of the napkin and graveclothes on him! Preachers remove hindrances from men ALREADY MADE ALIVE by Christ!

While Lazarus was dead, Christ did not ask His disciples to do ANYTHING for him! Christ knew the HARSH realities... the disciples are completely impotent of doing any spiritual good with regard to the dead! He didn't depend on the disciples as the indispensable mediators to get Lazarus out of his deadness!

Christ divinely gives life to dead Lazarus;

the disciples free the living Lazarus from hindrances.

Get the point? That's not too hard to understand, is it?

Or is it an ADDICTION to a form of priestcraft!
========

Dhong Ejnar Rue
I love that illustration.
I'm glad that through the patient teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit I have come to the biblical understanding of the doctrine of Eternal salvation, especially on the subject of Regeneration👉Not Calvinistic, nor Arminian.

Bill Taylor
A perfect example of their ungodly error!

What is effectual calling? And what does it involve, and what is its effect?

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02JoxTRR3cYZRLf9YsAofXeWftGKScox15e4qzUXM7Lfp5S1D4vqUoUdPwCxU5jHgrl

I asked this on a Reformed Christian Coffeehouse:

What is effectual calling? And what does it involve, and what is its effect?

Someone gave this answer:
Q. 31. What is effectual calling?
A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ, and renewing our wills, he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel. (Westminster Shorter Catechism)

I asked further:
"Who are those that are effectually called, and what was their spiritual state?"

A reformed man gets very uptight with my question... for what reason I know not what - just proud and cocksure, I think.

What do you think of the answer provided by the WSC?

Do you agree with what it says?
-----------

PJ Walters
It is lacking. No, I do not agree.

Effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit being sent from the Father and vitally applying the righteousness and the blood of the Son to an elect.

Yes, effectual calling "renews our wills" and "enables us to embrace Jesus Christ."

No, effectual calling does not "convince us of our sin and misery" or "enlighten our minds in the knowledge of Christ" or "persuade us to embrace Jesus." The gospel call does these things.

Am I lacking in this? Should I give greater specificity?

Sing
Thanks for responding.

Why are reformed folks so reluctant to answer simple questions?
What are they fearful of if they have the truth?

So many [not all!] reformed people only know how to regurgitate what they have been stuffed with...lacking capability to digest what is fed to them. So they get uptight when queried.

What is effectual calling?
- who makes that calling?
- who are called, and what was their spiritual state?
- what is the end of that calling?
- what is the efficacy of that calling?

I fear the WSC's answer is confusing the effectual call and the gospel call, and obviously promoting gospel regeneration! I will come to that!

Adam Wells
Isn't it called the "effectual" call in order to distinguish it from the "non-effectual" call?

Jerry Chapin
"So many [not all!] reformed people only know how to regurgitate what they have been stuffed with...lacking capability to digest what is fed to them. So they get uptight when queried."

Bro. Sing, your statement reminds me of the Mormon 'Messengers' and Jehovah's Witnesses when asked a question...one can almost see the wheels turning...

Sing
Adam Wells, I believe your observation is on target.

God's calling of an elect OUT OF his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation is ALWAYS effectual, i.e. always, without exception, accomplishing its end and purpose of the call.

The divine call of an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation is the direct and immediate work of the Spirit of God, THUS always effectual, accomplishing its end. This divine call is WITHOUT human instrumentality, completely the work of God.

This divine call, which is always effectual, is distinguished from the gospel call which is ministered through the gospel ministry, calling the hearers unto faith in Jesus Christ. The former is prior to the latter, both logically and chronologically. The former makes the latter possible. The former is solely through the free and sovereign activity of the Spirit of God, without means, The latter is through the instrument of the gospel ministry

This gospel call is intended SPECIFICALLY to call those already effectually called by God to believe the truth of their salvation. This call is not always effectual... which explains why many of God's children continue to wallow in lies and fables!

The divine call to grace and salvation, and the gospel call to faith in Jesus Christ are separate and distinct. But the reformed people, typically gospel regenerationists, confuse the two and understand the effectual call as the gospel call made effective to the regeneration of those dead in trespasses and sins by the Holy Spirit.

Distinction is the essence of sound theology.

Mikal Smith
Humbly disagree with the Reformed answer.

Sing
What is your reason for disagreeing?

Definitive sanctification and Ongoing sanctification

Definitive sanctification - once for all effectually called
out of the native state of sin and death
into that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.

#definitive_sanctification
#ongoing_sanctification

LeongSy
1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

Is sanctification of the Spirit the same as regeneration?
--------

sing
God PURPOSED eternal redemption for His elect;

Christ ACCOMPLISHED the redemption for the exact same people;

The Spirit of God/Christ APPLIES the redemption to each of the elect personally, thus separating him from his native state of sin, condemnation, and death to that state of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.

This is also known as the DEFINITIVE (once for all) sanctification, in distinction from the PRACTICAL sanctification which is lifelong. The definitive sanctification happens at the effectual call.

The effectual calling of an elect out of his NATIVE state of sin, condemnation, and death in Adam into that SPIRITUAL state of righteousness, justification and eternal life in Jesus Christ describes the Divine act of SETTING APART an elect to Christ, i.e. it is UNITING him to Christ and Christ unto him.

The effectual call EMBRACES these divine acts:

- justification, i.e. applying the righteousness of Christ to an elect personally (to deal with condemnation),

- regeneration (to deal with spiritual deadness),

- adoption (to deal with alienation).and

- bestowal of the Spirit of adoption to dwell within the child of God.

WITHOUT any of these free and sovereign activities of God, an elect IS NOT brought out of his native state in Adam into the spiritual state in Christ, an elect IS NOT united to Christ.

In the effectual call, the eternal salvation PURPOSED by God and ACCOMPLISHED by Christ is freely APPLIED to an elect personally by the Holy Spirit. The three Persons of the Triune God are in PERFECT UNITY and HARMONY of PURPOSE in the redemption of God's elect.

Salvation APPLIED to an elect personally makes it possible for him to hear and respond to the gospel, leading to salvation EXPERIENCED (temporal salvation)

Please read the above slowly and grasp the things said. If you understand the above, you are ahead of many theologians on the doctrine of salvation.

LeongSy
So the effectual calling can take place when we are not yet born? But what we are able to experience (obviously after we have been born) is when we hear and respond to the gospel (aka temporal salvation)?

sing
Effectual calling takes place when an elect ALREADY has personal being, i.e. conceived.

The effectual call of an elect can happen any time between his conception and death - the old school Baptists put it this way "... Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, He is pleased in His appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call," 

The imputation of Christ's righteousness to the elect at the cross, just as the imputation of Adam's sin to the human race in the garden of Eden - being LEGAL TRANSACTIONS - does not need our personal existence.

What was IMPUTED legally to the elect is then APPLIED vitally to each elect personally at the effectual call. Even so, what was IMPUTED legally to Adam's race is applied to each one personally at conception; thus, each is conceived in sin.

The effectual call (completely, wholly, solely by the sovereign and gracious activities of God) enables a child of God (an elect that has been effectually called) to hear the gospel; spiritual things are spiritually discerned; except a man be born again, he cannot. Period. Spiritual life MUST PRECEDE spiritual activities.

May our Lord grant you understanding. Amen.