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| Right translation matters supremely for sound theology! |
Right
translation matters supremely for sound theology!
One
reads like this
Ro
4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was
counted unto him FOR righteousness." Similarly for verses 5,9, and 22.
Another
reads like this:
Rom
4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was
counted to him AS righteousness." Similarly for verses 5,9, and 22.
Let
me state something obvious - the pronoun 'it' refers to Abraham's
faith. So many teachers of God's word are shameless for teaching that 'it'
refers to righteousness. There is no accounting of the righteousness of Christ to Abraham in
this passage, but so many 'great' teachers keep hallucinating that! Please get
this simple fact into your head.
And
where there is no accounting of righteousness, there is no justification.
PERIOD. Accounting of righteousness to the condemned is at the heart of
justification of the condemned by God the Judge. So many, the reformed as well
as the non-reformed are fixated on the idea that Abraham was justified by God
at this point! Shame!
With
that obvious introduction (to spare misguided brethren from raving nonsense
here), let me ask 3 questions:
What
does 'it was counted unto him FOR righteousness' mean?
What
does 'it was counted unto him AS righteousness' mean?
What
is the difference?
I
suggest that there is a very horrible corruption and degradation of the truth
of the gospel!
As
usual, if you can keep to the subject, comment; If you can't, abstain, please.
Johnny
Davis
Indeed.
Translation is perhaps as important as the original text, none of which we
have, only copies of copies of copies. Had the word "for" been
mistranslated "as" and the meaning would be that Abraham's belief
resulted in the righteousness of the man. Yet, the proper doctrine, as you pointed
out, is that belief allows God to impart His righteousness, with nothing to do
actually with the individual's efforts.
Sing
F Lau
Johnny,
I have REPUDIATED the doctrine that "belief allows God to impart His
righteousness" as the doctrine of the devil!
How
could you reconcile "belief allows God to impart His righteousness"
and "nothing to do with the individual's efforts' and the plain and simple
fact that believing is work?
John
6:28 declares that believing is a work God requires of His children!!!
OK, I have a high math class to take care of.
Write
sensible things, please.
Chase
Harrison
I
believe there is a BIG difference between the actual imparting of righteousness
by God in regeneration and the "counting" of righteousness when we
believe. As always, let's consider what all the Scriptures say on the subject
and let Scripture help to interpret Scripture:
"For
what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was COUNTED unto him for
righteousness." - Rom 4:3
"....for
we say that faith was RECKONED to Abraham for righteousness." - Rom 4:9
"Even
as Abraham believed God, and it was ACCOUNTED to him for righteousness." -
Gal 3:6
"And
the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
IMPUTED unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God."
- Jam 2:23
Ok,
we have four Scriptures that teach the same or similar principle. We must try
to rightly divide them so they all harmonize, and we should piece them all
together so that we come to a solid and consistent Biblical conclusion
regarding the important and precise meaning of this important doctrinal
principle.
The
four keywords used in the four Scriptures above are:
COUNTED,
RECKONED, ACCOUNTED, and IMPUTED
All
of these have very similar and synonymous meanings. Actually, although they are
four different English words, in the KJT all four of these words come from the
exact same Greek word: G3049 - logizomai
The
basic definition of this Greek word is:
-
to take into account; to make an account of
-
to consider, take into account, weigh
But,
one doesn't have to know a lot about Greek or speak Greek to understand what
this word means. Just look at the first three letters of the word. L-O-G.
What
is a log? It is best compared to an inventory sheet or a balance sheet.
Consider your checking account and your chequebook. The checking account is
where your money is actually kept and stored. The log in your chequebook is
where you log your transactions and try to keep your account balanced for your
own records and information. Now, let me ask a question. If I wrote a
$1,000,000 deposit into the log of my chequebook, would that put any money into
the actual account? Absolutely not! I WISH it worked like that! Hahaha. 🙂 The log should reflect what is in the account at all times, BUT
writing something in the log does NOT create any money in the account.
Similarly, when Abraham BELIEVED God, it did not create righteousness in him
nor make him righteous, but it showed that he was already righteous and righteousness
was LOGGED to his account.
Another
example. The definition of this word could also be described as: "to take
an inventory". Since I currently work in the grocery business, I will use
examples and analogies that I am familiar with. Consider the inventory of a
grocery store. At the end of each fiscal quarter when we take the closing
inventories of our stores, we go in and COUNT each item and LOG the results for
later calculations and reports. Now, when we counted the inventory, did that
create or put actual inventory in the store? Absolutely not! Obviously, the
inventory was already there, and we just count it and log it so that we have a
more exact and precise knowledge of our inventory. Taking inventory does not
create or make any inventory! Similarly, when Abraham believed God, it did NOT
create righteousness in him nor make him righteous. But by believing, it was
inventoried to him that he was already righteous and counted to him as such.
Spiritual belief does not make us righteous. It shows that we are already
righteous and it is logged to our account as such!
Sorry for the length, but this is a very important doctrinal principle and I think deserves a thorough explanation and understanding.
Johnny
Davis
So
goes communication, which may be rambling to some, but prayerfully considered
truth from scripture. Even in the comment above, where my intent was to agree
with you, that words mean everything, the term "for" does not ALLOW
GOD TO DO ANYTHING. God can do anything he pleases. He can bestow mercy on whom
He has mercy. He can forgive (perhaps a better word than forgive, is
"never know" the sins, HOWEVER, he pleases to do that, whether by
human logic with an elaborate understanding of the exact depth of accurate
doctrine or theology, whatever man-made way to express it, through perfect
language or not. Man has nothing to do with it. So, I don't know any other way
to say this, by quoting scripture or not quoting scripture (after all, we all
know the scriptures, I suspect), when man believes God, whatever happens good,
will happen. If one wishes to call "belief" a "work," that
is fine with me. Yet, work, in the English language, implies a payoff, an
atta-boy, a reward, a paycheck, SOMETHING in return. Such is not necessary,
actually not possible, with God. His grace, mercy, and forgiveness is free
without effort on the part of man. I do not know how to say it any more
sensible than this: I agree with you, even though I suspect, you think I do
not.
Sing
F Lau
Chase
Chase Harrison, you should get a DD for that!
"There
is a BIG difference between
- the actual imparting of righteousness by God in
regeneration and
- the counting OF FAITH FOR righteousness when we believe."
That
would summarize the subject at hand better.
Imparting
righteousness at regeneration is distinct and different from imputing
righteousness at the death and resurrection of Christ But many have no clue
about this distinction at all... so all are muddled with their understanding of
justification.
Many do care not for precision... and remain muddled.
Paul's
command to rightly divide the word of truth is a trifle to them.
So, what does 'counting faith to Abraham for righteousness' mean?
Chase
Harrison
A
justified mind and conscience. A mind and conscience that is strong in faith
and fully persuaded and not wavering!:
"He
staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith,
giving glory to God;
And
being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And
therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." - Rom 4:20-22
And
then Paul goes on to tie the example of Abraham DIRECTLY to us! And I love that
he does so!:
"Now
it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But
for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up
Jesus our Lord from the dead;" - Rom 4:23-24
The effect of "counting faith to Abraham for righteousness" or "justification by faith" is a justified mind and conscience that is strong in the Lord and fully persuaded of His promises and abilities. It is a believing and fruitful child of God that is pleasing to God and called the Friend of God (James 2:23)! What a BLESSED state it is to be in when one is justified by faith! It changes your life, your perspective on life, and your walk in this life. A walk that is pleasing to God and brings glory to His name!
Sing
F Lau
Johnny
Davis, why the term 'for' does not allow God to do anything? God doing the
accounting of faith to Abraham is a fixed fact. Now you are saying the exact
opposite!!!
It
is so hard to understand you!
It is not what one wishes. It is studying what the Scriptures DOES say, and believing it. That's the bottom line... some loose ideas about what the Scriptures say is the fertile ground for so many heresies.
Johnny
Davis
Agreed.
Heresies may come to exist, through well-meaning and non-sinister intent,
simply by misunderstanding the translation, speech, text, or anything.
Sing
F Lau
A
feeble translation of the Chinese words in the picture above:
The
Art of Speaking
In
matters of urgency, speak slowly,
In
matters of importance, speak clearly,
In
matters of no account, speak jovially
In
matters unconvinced, speak prudently,
In
matters of rumours, shut your mouth,
In
matters you can't fulfil, promise not,
In
matters that hurt, do not speak,
In
matters of sadness, speak to relevant persons,
In
matters of joy, speak at the right circumstances
In
matters of sadness, speak not to everyone you meet,
In
matters of others, speak carefully,
In
matters of self, listen to what others say,
In
matters of our elders, listen more and speak less,
In
matters of marriage, confer sweetly, and
In
matters of children, exhort and admonish.
Johnny
Davis
Who
can control the tongue? The Eastern saying expounds on the scripture and
presents the truth.
