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September 15
(4th in the series)
A brother who called himself a "true Calvinist" said:
I must admit I was once a Hyper-Calvinist of the Hardshell type, but through the grace of our Lord was brought back again to believe once more the Bible by correct and scientific exegesis, especially in rightly dividing the Word of truth. While actually answering you by and bye, I would like to show Hardshell Hyper-Calvinism is characterized by the ...
following common presuppositions:
4. Hyper-Calvinism is making an absurd and unscriptural hypothesis, to wit, that since man is incapable to believe the Gospel on his own due to total depravity and spiritual death, God cannot demand him faith; and the preaching of the Gospel with an earnest pleading with sinners to believe on the risen Christ is necessarily Arminianistic. This logical fallacy is often, if not always, shared by Arminians, hence God commands him to believe on the ground of his ability to believe on his own.
(4 of 11, 7 other points to follow)
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Any real hyper-calvinists out there?
Then come, and let's reason together.
What do you think of the 4th point?
Is that what you believe?
Are you rightly represented?
And Calvinists, please join in to enlighten us.
Sing F Lau
This 4th statement raises very interesting issues that should really interest everyone.
Let me start by asking a few questions:
1. Does a man's inability void his lawful duty?
2. What determines a man's duty to believe in Christ?
3. Who does God call to believe "the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation'?
4. Does God ever command a man to believe a lie?
What are your answers to these simple questions?
Charles
Does a man's inability void his lawful duty? If a man is dead in tresspasses and sin then what law would require him to repent.
Here in Amerika we have traditional cemetary cleanup days and I have yet to see any of the dead participate and they live there 24/7! Why don't they keep the place klean?
Sing F Lau
1. Does a man's inability void his lawful duty?
A man's inability to perform a certain duty does not void his lawful duty. A man, though dead in trespasses and sins, is not exempted from his lawful duty and obligation toward God his Creator. When God made man, God made him very good... he had the full ability and power of moral choice and free will to fulfill his lawful duty owe to God his Creator - to render obedience to God.
A man's inability to discharge his lawful duty towards his Creator God is self-inflicted by his free will rebellion against his Creator.
All men being sinners are under obligation to repent towards God His creator. NO single sinner has any right to remain in sin. Every single sinner is under divine obligation to repent and turn from his sin.
A man's LAWFUL duties are defined by the terms of the covenant to which he is a party!
All of God's creatures are bound by the terms of the covenant of creation.
All of God's redeemed are bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption!
Sing F Lau
2. What determines a man's duty to believe in Christ?
A man's duties are defined by terms of the covenant to which he is a party!
His duty is not determined by his own inability or ability.
Only those embraced in the covenant of redemption are required by the terms of that covenant to believe in Christ as their Redeemer.
All the children of God are duty bound to repent and believe in the gospel of their salvation. They are God's redeemed bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption. God's redeemed are duty bound by the terms of the covenant of redemption to repent and believe in their Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ... because Christ IS their Redeemer... it is their covenant duty to believe the truth of their salvation by Christ.
I do believe all God's children ALONE are under divine obligation to repent and believe in their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. He is their Lord and Saviour. Upon the basis of His life and death, they have been justified, regenerated and adopted. They are children first by God's free grace, then they are called to believe the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation, Eph 1:13.
Why would anyone imagine that others are under the divine obligation to believe Christ as Saviour when Christ is not even the Saviour of all men? Why are others duty bound to believe in Christ as their Saviour when Christ did not give Himself as the Saviour of all men? That would amount to God put some men under divine obligation to believe a big fat lie!
It is contrary to God's character for God put any man under divine obligation to believe a lie - i.e. to believe that Christ is their Saviour when He had assuredly decreed that Christ is not their Saviour.
Sing F Lau
"Hyper-Calvinism is making an absurd and unscriptural hypothesis, to wit, that since man is incapable to believe the Gospel on his own due to total depravity and spiritual death, God cannot demand him faith; and the preaching of the Gospel with an earnest pleading with sinners to believe on the risen Christ is necessarily Arminianistic. This logical fallacy is often, if not always, shared by Arminians, hence God commands him to believe on the ground of his ability to believe on his own. Does a man's inability void his responsibility?
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Let me make a few observations:
1. The H-Cs err to equate inability with non-duty! Inability does not absolve a man of his lawful obligation.
- The redeemed has the duty to believe the truth of their salvation by Jesus Christ, applied to them personally by the free grace of God. The redeemed are ENABLED to believe by their effectual call to grace and salvation by God's free grace, and are called to believe on the truth.
- Those not redeemed has NO duty whatsoever to believe a lie; Christ is not their Saviour, and God DOES NOT demand any to believe a lie. Calvinists and Arminians believe otherwise.
2. The Cs and As err in more ways, and more seriously...
a. They insist that God does demand faith in Jesus Christ from those who are still in their native state of total depravity and spiritual death.
This notion is more serious than a logical fallacy. This portrays God as a mad man... like a mad man demanding the dead to eat!
b. They insist that the gospel ministry is the God-given means whereby those dead in trespasses and sins are saved, regenerated. That's why Cs and As are both gospel regenerationists! They are close cousins!
- The Cs and As are very confused as to the purpose and function of the gospel ministry, i.e. it is the means of calling the dead in trespasses and sins to believe the gospel. It is the means for God to save them that are dead in trespasses and sins
- The truth is this. God had purposed to save a specific people. Jesus came to save them only. And the Holy Spirit applies the redemption accomplished by Jesus Christ to specific individuals whom God had purposed to save and whom Christ redeemed.
- Because of these saving activities of the Triune God, there is a gospel of salvation to preach and herald to such people.
The gospel is the good news of what the three Persons of the Triune God have done to save His people, and such are called to believe the gospel of their salvation. The gospel is for those who ARE SAVED. The gospel in intended for them alone. The gospel ministry is to call out and gather God's children - them that ARE SAVED - and gather them into NT churches...
God demands His children to believe the gospel of their salvation... because that is the truth of what God has done for them. God does not demand any man to believe a lie.... to command those that are still dead in trespasses and sin to believe the gospel of salvation.
God does not do foolish things... many preachers do. They go around offering spiritual food to the dead with the hope that they may be brought alive. Food is for the nourishment of living. Jesus told Peter, "Feed... feed... feed." Feeding has to do with the living, and not to bring the dead to life! The Cs and As believe the latter!
Dellis
Sing F Lau,The more I read your explanation of conversion,the more sense I can see in it."God demands His children to believe the gospel of their salvation... because that is the truth of what God has done for them." So true! But are you saying that at no time ever,,was the child of God in a depraved state?
Sing F Lau
Brother Dellis, it gives me comfort someone UNDERSTANDS what I'm saying. Whether anyone agrees or not, I couldn't care less.
You asked a good question. I love questions. A biblical position can withstand the most vigorous cross examination, and will NEVER be shown or exposed to be erroneous or contradictory.
An unbiblical position will very soon be shown to be full of contradictions and logical fallacies! And that's what the popular Calvinism IS - I have proven it again and again, and again. Just see some articles on the blog!
When asking questions, it is important to ask them PRECISELY, otherwise you may not get a right answer.
Are these two questions the same?
You asked:
"But are you saying that at no time ever, was the child of God in a depraved state?"
Do you actually want to ask this:
"But are you saying that at no time ever, was an elect of God in a depraved state?"
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
A child of God is distinct and different from an elect of God. A child of God is an elect of God whom He has effectually called out of his native state of sin and death (state of total depravity) to that of grace and salvation. So, a child of God is NO longer in a depraved state, NO never.
An elect of God, by nature, was conceived in sin, born in sin, grow up in sin...
See Eph 2:1-3... note 'EVEN AS THE OTHERS' at the end.
2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
So, if your question is:
"But are you saying that at no time ever, was an elect of God in a depraved state?"
then the answer is: an elect of God is in his native depraved state UNTIL he is effectually called out of his native depraved state, by God's free and sovereign grace, into the state of grace and salvation.
An elect who is effectually called is a child of God.
A child of God who is converted to Christ through the gospel ministry is a believer and a disciple.
Among God's children, there are good and bad disciples.
There are God's children who are not brought to faith through the gospel ministry.
The gospel ministry is INTENDED for God's children... such need to be brought to know and believe the truth of THEIR salvation.
The work of FEEDING has to do with the LIVING! It's that basic. The Apostles knew what they need to do.
Malcolm
Agreed brother Sing.
Sing F Lau
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
When the preaching of the gospel comes to them that ARE SAVED... ARE SAVED... ARE SAVED, the gospel message is received and believed as the message declaring the power of God of saving them!
It is a PLAIN LIE to say that faith (believing the gospel of Christ) is the God-given means whereby we are saved by God.
This is a PLAIN lie embraced by both the Calvinists and their cousins Arminians!
Them that ARE SAVED are there first by God's free and sovereign grace in the effectual call. The gospel came to such, and is believed as a message declaring the power of God in saving them!
Robert
Dividing "saved" is also important. I ask any one who wants to check was Paul telling Timothy he could loose his salvation if he did not take heed unto thy self and unto the doctrine. after having already taught our security in Christ is eternal?
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Continue to Damnable Heresy 5 here:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/10/damnable-heresy-5-considered.html
