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| Let's have a cup of tea, and reason together a bit. |
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September 11, 2012
(1st in the series 11)
A brother who calls himself a "true Calvinist" said:
I must admit I was once a Hyper-Calvinist of the Hardshell type, but through the grace of our Lord was brought back again to believe once more the Bible by correct and scientific exegesis, especially in rightly dividing the Word of truth. While actually answering you by and bye, I would like to show Hardshell Hyper-Calvinism is characterized by the following common presuppositions:
1. That God’s decree of election or and reprobation or divine foreordination is not distinguished from Divine Providence; in other words, there is no distinction in the mind of Hyper-Calvinists between potentiality and actual.
(1st of 11, 10 other points to follow)
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Any real hyper-calvinists out there?
Then come, and let's reason together.
What do you think of the first point?
Is that what you believe?
Are you rightly represented?
And Calvinists, please join in too to enlighten us.
If you can keep to the point, please comment.
No straying allowed!
Come, let the bible students reason together!
What saith the Scriptures?
Jerry
likes this.
Michael
it will be great if there is a table shown the differences of truth, calvinism, hardshell calvinism and arminian ...from there, we will know better...
Sing F Lau
I think there is one such table at LetGodBeTrue site.
Look for it and give us the link.
I have a hard copy.
Charles
what does he mean by potentiality and actual?
Charles
Pilate replied to Jesus; "what is correct and scientific exegesis, especially in rightly dividing the Word of truth."
Sing F Lau
Brother Michael Lim, here it is. Study it carefully.
Calvinism, Arminianism and the Truth... take a look at the note here, with a helpful chart.
Calvinists are really high-arminians... Those they denounce as hyper-calvinists holds to the truth.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/salvation/calvinism-arminianism/sermon.php
Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth: Wars have been fought over these differences, but the Bible is plain enough to show you the truth. Instead of siding with great men on either side, let us side with God and the Bible. Here is a theological study that will help your understanding.
Charles Page
The actual application of so-called Hyper-Calvinism is that God is exalted to a higher theological sovereign level. The "HC" experiences a higher and deeper worship experience of God and if God be lifted higher then he draws men to Himself.
Charles Page
The non-HCs exalt humanism to a higher level and the practical result is a good feeling about themselves and that is the basis of their evangelism.
Charles Page
Scientific exegesis and humanism go hand in hand!
Sing F Lau
Any Calvinist? Please join in and help explain the statement by a fellow Calvinist. Thanks.
Charles Page
The actuality of "HC" comes by revelation and not scientific analysis!
Sing F Lau
A Calvinist's complaint against what he perceives as hyper-Calvinistic presupposition:
"1. That God’s decree of election or and reprobation or divine foreordination is not distinguished from Divine Providence; in other words there is no distinction in the mind of Hyper-Calvinists between potentiality and actual."
My bible-student's response to what I perceive the Calvinist as saying:
## I believe in election and preterition. I reject reprobation. The decree of the fall makes reprobation redundant. John Calvin taught DOUBLE predestination: election as well as reprobation, i.e that God actively predestined many to eternal damnation.
## All the eternal decrees (decreed before time) of God are executed in time through His works of creation, providence and redemption.
## In redemption, what God had purposed/decreed in eternity was executed in time and accomplished by His only begotten Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Based on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit applies that redemption to each elect personally, without any means or instrumentality, at God's appointed and accepted time, to bring them into the state of grace and salvation, perfectly fitting each one for eternal glory.
## In God's purpose of redemption, potentiality is CO-EXTENSIVE with the ACTUAL (if I understand what the brother is saying). What God had purposed and was accomplished by Christ, the same is ACTUALLY applied to the same people, not one more and not one less, and all by free and sovereign saving activities of the Triune God. Rocky A. Simbajon
Charles Page
So the Calvinist says: "that God’s decree of election or and reprobation or divine foreordination is distinguished from Divine Providence; in other words, there is distinction between potentiality and actual." What does the Calvinist mean by this?
Sing F Lau
The Calvinist did state plainly that such is the presupposition of the hyper-calvinist... no distinction between God’s decree of election or and reprobation or divine foreordination on the one hand, and Divine Providence on the other.
If he does equate 'potentiality' with divine decrees, and 'actual' to divine providence, then we need to know what he means?
Charles Page
aha! I see what you mean. That was exactly my thought! Why don't they tell us?
Sing F Lau
'Potentiality' is a noun derived from 'potential' (adjective) - with the meaning of having the capacity to become or develop into something in the future. So, I believe by the plain meaning of the words, he equates divine decrees as having 'potentiality' - having the capacity to become 'actual' through divine providence.
So, the question now is: do those whom he considers as hyper-calvinists fail to distinguish the divine decrees from the divine providence that worked out the redemption of his people? Or is this just a poor confusion on the part of the Calvinist?
Charles Page
John Piper's two wills theory!
Sing F Lau
In the terminologies of the Calvinist, I must say 'potentiality' (God's decrees) and 'actual' (God's execution of His eternal decree in time) is CO-EXTENSIVE! God executes the redemption what He has decreed to accomplish.
Charles Page
well, how could it be otherwise! "absurdity of their trifling" -John Calvin
Sing F Lau
Well the Calvinists invented the fiction of the two wills fable to cover their hopeless inconsistencies and contradictions in their understanding of salvation, and failure to distinguish eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace from temporal salvation through the obedience of God's children (those elect ALREADY bestowed with eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace).
I have demonstrated that again and again... and they maintained their elegance silence!
They just hurl labels at me!
Pink said when he was denounce as hyper-calvinist, "Denunciation is the last resort of the defeated opponent!"
Charles Page
sound of silence!
Pj
Interesting!
Sing F Lau
Conclusion 1: Calvinists accuse those whom they slander as hyper-calvinists that they make no distinction between God’s decree of election or and reprobation or divine foreordination on the one hand, and Divine Providence on the other.
It seem the truth is this: it is the Calvinists who fail to make proper distinction, thus failing to distinguish the monergistic activities of God in decreeing, securing/accomplishing and applying (both 'potentiality' and 'actual') the eternal salvation to His people, and the synergistic activities of His redeemed people in working out their own salvation in obedience to the means appointed to that end (I would call this practical or evidential).
Sing F Lau
Rocky A. Simbajon, so I hope the view I have expressed here with respect to your 1st statement does not come into your category of 'damnable heresy'!!! If it does, I pray that you would guide me out of it. Forget what the Hardshell type of Hyper-C believes.
Thanks.
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Read Damnable Heresy 2 here:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/10/damnable-heresy-2-considered_1.html
