Charles shared a link:
Sing, here is one for you to read and tell us what you think!
Sing F Lau
Part of the 2nd paragraph of the article reads as follows:
What the text teaches is that everyone who believes in Christ will be saved. Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life). The text says nothing, absolutely nothing, about who will ever believe. It says nothing about the fallen man’s natural moral ability. Reformed people and non-Reformed people both heartily agree that all who believe will be saved. They heartily disagree about who has the ability to believe.
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Since John 3:16 declares thus: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life," then both the haughty Reformed people and the despised non-Reformed people are deceived and deluded!!!
What the text teaches is that everyone who believes HAS / POSSESSES eternal life, i.e HAS BEEN SAVED, HAS BEEN BESTOWED ETERNAL LIFE/SALVATION!
Everyone who will believe in Christ SHALL HAVE eternal life, and everyone who believes in Christ HAS eternal life are two ENTIRELY different gospels!!!
The text makes a grand and glorious declaration about every one/whosoever believes: all the believing ones HAVE, NOT will have, eternal life!
It says NOTHING about what one must do to be saved!!!
It makes a grand and glorious DECLARATION about the believing ones - they have ETERNAL/EVERLASTING LIFE, an evidence of having been SO LOVED of God.
It is like this simple and plain statement about the eating ones:
He who eats has life. This is a statement about those who eat.
It says nothing about the dead eating in order to have life.
Beware, Sprouler the fowler is on the prowl for some to devour!
Charles
Sproul just tweeted (perhaps from my remarks)
We are not loving people when we're telling them that God accepts them as they are w/out repentance, b/c we're lying to them. —RC Sproul
Sing F Lau
We
are most loving to people to tell them the truth God accepted His
people in Christ Jesus when still dead in trespasses and sins,
regenerated them with eternal life, made them fit for eternal glory...
therefore repent and believe the truth! Whoever believes HAS everlasting
life. Any thing else would be telling them lies!
And telling them lies is not loving at all!
Tell the sprowler that!
Sing F Lau
"Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)..This a perversion of what the text says!!
The text declares:
Whoever does A (believes) HAS / POSSESSES B (everlasting life).
Doing A is evidence of possessing B!
Tell the sprowler that!
Charles
His very last sentence caught my attention!Sing F Lau
His last sentence;
"It is so great that only the effectual grace of God working in his heart can bring him to faith."
What about it?
There is something rotten about it...
I'll let you have the honor to throw it out!
Charles
I tweeted back to sprowler: "we are deceiving them when we make repentance a condition for being born again.The Holy Spirit regenerates from their state of sin.
Tweeting is a good exercise in communications, you only have 140 characters to tweet
Charles
@Ligonier it is not about our love for them it is God's love we declare to the regenerated/already born again. II Cor 5:14-21
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A closely related thread:
"Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)" --- R C Sproul
This is the gospel of the Reformed people, that is, receiving B is conditioned on doing A!
This is most definitely a perversion of what John 3:16 says!!
The text declares:
Whoever does A (believes) HAS / POSSESSES B (everlasting life).
Doing A evidences the possession of B.
The former is no gospel... for one without everlasting life is incapable to do the thing needed to receive everlasting life!!! It is a cruel mockery and wicked taunting against the dead in trespasses and sins!
Doing A is evidence of possessing B!
Doing A is the evidence of having been SO LOVED by God and bestowed everlasting life by His free grace.
That is the gospel - the good news of what God HAS ALREADY DONE... bestowed eternal life.
Whosoever believes HAS everlasting life.
That's good news!
Sing F Lau
Take a look here - a short article on John 3:16 "How did God so love?"http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/02/john-316-how-did-god-so-love.html
Sing F Lau
Here is another article on John 3:16 "But how did God so love?"http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2010/01/but-how-did-god-so-love-john-316.html
Canto
Bro Sing.... u don't agree with the Reformed view??
Sing F Lau
Bro Cantoro, you don't agree with the Holy Bible?????
Canto
One of the reasons why we use KJV is because it is the Bible of the Protestant Reformation right?
Sing F Lau
Cantoro,
don't let your great mind wander so easily! Stay focused lah!!! What do you want to talk
about - John 3:16 or KJV or Protestant Reformation?
Which do you believe
"Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)" or
"Whoever does A (believes) HAS / POSSESSES B (everlasting life)"?
Which do you believe
"Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)" or
"Whoever does A (believes) HAS / POSSESSES B (everlasting life)"?
Canto
I'm for TULIP!
Sing F Lau
You
have not even dealt with John 3:16, you are already jumping to KJV, and
Protestant Reformation, and now TULIP! You should be thrown into
jail... because ORCHID is the national flower of Singapore, and not the
dutchy tulip!!!
Good night! Please go to bed. Have a good rest... then come back and say something useful on John 3:16.
Good night! Please go to bed. Have a good rest... then come back and say something useful on John 3:16.
Canto
The context is that the Jews rejected Jesus Christ and saw Him as only a mere carpenter, not as the Son of God.
For us, we can only know the Living Word through the written word of God. So if we are convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, receiving Him as Lord and Saviour will give us everlasting life.
For us, we can only know the Living Word through the written word of God. So if we are convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, receiving Him as Lord and Saviour will give us everlasting life.
Sing F Lau
Yes, you are INDEED a Reformed person!!!
You and RC Sproul think and believe alike:
Sproul: "Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)"
Cantoro: "receiving Him as Lord and Saviour will give us everlasting life."
I hear you loud and clear.
So, you are saying that a man WITHOUT everlasting life, i.e. STILL dead in trespasses and sin, is capable of receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour in order that his act of receiving will give him the everlasting life which he did not have? That's a very simple question for a Reformed man like you. So kindly answer it. Thank you.
You and RC Sproul think and believe alike:
Sproul: "Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life)"
Cantoro: "receiving Him as Lord and Saviour will give us everlasting life."
I hear you loud and clear.
So, you are saying that a man WITHOUT everlasting life, i.e. STILL dead in trespasses and sin, is capable of receiving Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour in order that his act of receiving will give him the everlasting life which he did not have? That's a very simple question for a Reformed man like you. So kindly answer it. Thank you.
Canto
My BP teachers have taught me:
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I'd add that:
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
So to the elect, the gospel is effective in making them alive and bear good fruit from being dead in trespasses and sins.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I'd add that:
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
So to the elect, the gospel is effective in making them alive and bear good fruit from being dead in trespasses and sins.
Canto
The Spirit of God chooses whoever He wants to give everlasting life. Everlasting life is being born of the Spirit, begins at the moment of conversion.
By the irresistible, instantaneous act of conversion by the Spirit of God, the elect dead in trespasses and sins will receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
Sing F Lau
Canto, you may be the THIRD person I'm saying this: the Devil can quote Scriptures better than you do!!! OK now please explain John 6:37. Thank you.
John 6:37 "All that the Father GIVETH me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
John 6: 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he HATH GIVEN me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:37 has "Father GIVETH" - present tense.
John 6:39 has "he HATH GIVEN" - perfect tense.
Now, please explain John 6:37.
The Devil can quote Scriptures better than you do!!!
Canto
From the perspective of Jesus as a human being, it was the present tense. But from the perspective of God from beginning to end, God the Father has decided who to give the faith to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
I'd like to add also:
Romans 10:14-15 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Makes sense offering the gospel to many willing to hear!
1 Peter 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
So the gospel is to save and condemn!
Mark 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Sing F Lau
Cantoro, Thanks for all your comments.You are a perfect example of a deformed Arminian - having a reformed label but believe just like an Arminian!!!
Sorry, you are too smart alecky to learn the truth. You have been indoctrinated beyond cure.
Dell
Hello Brother Sing can I borrow your post?
I believe it reinforces 1 John 5:1
King James Version (KJV)
5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
10. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Sing F Lau
It is God's truth, our common heritage! Use it freely, Brother!Dell
:) O:)
Canto
Then give me a chance to comment abt VPP-KJV? ;)
Sing F Lau
Don't ride your hobby horse here. Ride it freely on your own turf!
You had better stay put of this BASIC issue of salvation first before drifting off to other subjects!!!
Angel
Excuse
me Elders I think the subject of God's love is the elect people. Jn.3:16 are supported by Jn.17:5-24. please read, 4 kinds of world: #1cosmos
world, #2world of all mankind, #3world of non-elect, #4world of the elect people.in matt.1:21 the mission of Jesus is to save all his people only and not all human being.
Canto
Angel P, I'm not an Elder =) haha, let me go to some farms which have sheep first... If I can look after them well for a few years, then maybe God may put the conviction in my heart to be an Elder... (Experiment w animals first!) Arrgh! Those animals... why don't just hire a shepherd dog??
Good to point out how cosmos is used. like Cesar commanded that the world be taxed.
It looks to me quite clearly there are sheep and goats predetermined. The Son of man came to seek them that are lost. Why lost? They once belonged to God. Now they are found! Rather than we found God, God found us!
Sheep that are lost were dead in trespasses and sins till they were found. In the parable of the prodigal son for eg, the thrust of the parable is about repentance. Christ came for His sheep - those the Father had given Him. Because those sheep were lost, needing a shepherd.
Sing F Lau
Canto wrote:
The Spirit of God chooses whoever He wants to give everlasting life. Everlasting life is being born of the Spirit, begins at the moment of conversion.
By the irresistible, instantaneous act of conversion by the Spirit of God, the elect dead in trespasses and sins will receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
========
Canto, if you will pay some attention, I will expand some time teaching you some gospel truth, and wean you from some loooooose talk.
1. The Spirit of God DOES NOT choose whoever He wants to give eternal life! The Spirit of God works in perfect harmony with God the Father and God the Son.
- The Spirit of God gives eternal life to those ONLY and no one else whom God the father has chosen and predestined to glory, and whom the Son has redeemed for the same end.
- ONLY those whom Christ has redeemed are eligible recipient of eternal life... not whoever the Spirit of God wants!!!
2. Everlasting life is being born of the Spirit, begins at the moment of REGENERATION!
- You are quite confused and messed up about regeneration and conversion.
- Regeneration is always distinct and PRIOR to conversion. Learn this BASIC truth well, and it will save you from many errors.
3. The Spirit of God gives eternal life to the elect - chosen of God and redeemed of Christ - who are still dead in trespasses and sin.
- He gives eternal life NOT TO THOSE who believe.
- Those who believe ALREADY HAVE eternal life!
The Spirit of God chooses whoever He wants to give everlasting life. Everlasting life is being born of the Spirit, begins at the moment of conversion.
By the irresistible, instantaneous act of conversion by the Spirit of God, the elect dead in trespasses and sins will receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
========
Canto, if you will pay some attention, I will expand some time teaching you some gospel truth, and wean you from some loooooose talk.
1. The Spirit of God DOES NOT choose whoever He wants to give eternal life! The Spirit of God works in perfect harmony with God the Father and God the Son.
- The Spirit of God gives eternal life to those ONLY and no one else whom God the father has chosen and predestined to glory, and whom the Son has redeemed for the same end.
- ONLY those whom Christ has redeemed are eligible recipient of eternal life... not whoever the Spirit of God wants!!!
2. Everlasting life is being born of the Spirit, begins at the moment of REGENERATION!
- You are quite confused and messed up about regeneration and conversion.
- Regeneration is always distinct and PRIOR to conversion. Learn this BASIC truth well, and it will save you from many errors.
3. The Spirit of God gives eternal life to the elect - chosen of God and redeemed of Christ - who are still dead in trespasses and sin.
- He gives eternal life NOT TO THOSE who believe.
- Those who believe ALREADY HAVE eternal life!
Sing F Lau
Angel said --- "#1cosmos world #2world of all mankind #3world of non-elect #4world of the elect people.
I suggest the world spoken of in John 3:16 is the world in its ethical sense... a world that lies in death and wickedness and rebellion and enmity against God. Such is the world that God loved... which is why it is said He SO LOVED... He loved that which on every consideration are unlovable, but should be justly and righteously damned eternally.
That's the intent of the term "world" in John 3:16 - I believe.
To say the world refers to the world of the elect is too specious, and invite the wrath of the universalists for no good reason!!!
