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| "Once saved, forever saved." Start by asking a few questions. Once saved by who? What kind of salvation is spoken of? Who secured that salvation? How is that salvation applied to you? Did you play any part in that "once saved"? |
[15/01/2021, 15:43] Sing:
Brethren,
An intelligent
inquirer said these pious words:
"I don't
believe that nonsense, once saved, forever saved." I don't stand with either Calvinism or
Arminianism; I only believe in what the Bible says."
The inquirer made an interesting statement on "once saved, forever saved."
An Arminian curses
this as a damnable heresy; some Calvinists glory in it.
How will you, who is
neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, assist someone in understanding the word of
God more perfectly who opines "once saved, forever saved"?
Are you skilled
enough to minister to others?
Aquila and Priscilla
- the tent-maker couple, instructed by Apostle Paul - were skilled enough to
assist the theologian Apollos.
Let's discuss.
[15/01/2021, 18:22] Sunny:
1. Does Esther know the eternal salvation of God vs conversion?
2. The Armenians
condemn "once saved, forever saved"; they claimed God keeps on adding names in the Lamb's book of life. Most of them are of the opinion people are saved on earth
through the hearing of the Gospel only and not eternally- given life waiting
for regeneration or conversion. Because of such a lack of belief that God's
chosen saints are bequeathed with eternal salvation.
3. However, Calvinists, on the other hand, believe in the election of saints... everyone
would be found in heaven at the end time. Those not found or gathered at the end time
are spurious and unbelievers.
4. The Calvinists
believe the true elect will not lose their salvation on the ground that once saved
forever saved.
However, there is a
mega church where the main Pastor preached once saved, forever saved. No matter
how one saint lives temporally.
5. Our belief is
grounded in our bible stipulated:
a. Eternal salvation
b. Legal salvation
by our eldest brother
c. Vital calling or
conversion at the proper time.
d. Temporal
salvation
e. Glorification at
the great judgement Day.
Yes, we must be
clear we are eternally saved n our names in the Lamb's book of life. But we
must be converted daily in our lives as working out our salvation with fear and
trembling. We must have faith in God that His salvation is efficacious. But we
must qualify our faith in Christ with good works. Yes, Esther stated her notion
as once saved forever. But we have to listen n get to know her better, why she
couldn't stand either Arminian or Calvinistic beliefs. Maybe she has
discovered more from our bible we could have overlooked.
Just my
opinion...and understanding. However, to be corrected from our bible so I will
have more complete knowledge of knowing our Lord 🙏🙏🙏
[15/01/2021, 23:50] Sing
Sunny @ 1. Does she
know the eternal salvation of God vs conversion?
I think you meant
this: Does she know the distinction between eternal and temporal salvation?
(Eternal salvation and temporal salvation form a contrasting couplet just as
regeneration and conversion do likewise.)
I'm not sure;
probably not. Few do. We need to find out.
It would be great if
our people are skilled to assist those who would bring up the issue of
"once saved, forever saved" - whether they are for or against
it. We want to be Aquila and Priscilla
to show them the way of God more perfectly. Acts 18:26. But just be aware that
those with the teachable spirit of Apollos are uncommon.
An excellent way to
find out is to ask them innocent questions so that we understand what they do,
and don't believe about the matter. Asking apt questions will also inevitably
expose their inconsistencies and contradictions; this will then will the
opportunity to show them the truth.
"Once saved,
forever saved" is both true and false at the same time but in a distinct
and different sense.
Only those who know
and understand the distinction between eternal salvation by grace alone and
temporal salvation conditioned upon the obedience of God's children can
adequately explain the matter.
What useful
questions can we ask to assist them in understanding the issue correctly?
As indicated by
Brother Eng Sun, both the Arminians and the Calvinists are quite
confused about the matter because they don't see the distinction between eternal and temporal salvation.
[16/01/2021, 00:44] Sing
Sunny, The
Arminians (followers of the teaching of Jacobus Arminius; Armenians are the
people of Armenia) condemn "once saved forever saved" because they do
indeed read in the Scriptures that they must work out their own salvation...
Esther aptly quoted Phi 2:12 to prove her point. There are many passages that
speak of the active role of believers for them to be saved, and stay saved. So,
from their perspective, "once saved, forever saved" is plainly
contradicting the Bible.
We know where the
problem lies: the salvation spoken of in those passages that involve the
ONGOING activities of men is only temporal salvation; they understand them as
speaking of eternal salvation. In their
understanding, their eternal destiny hinged upon their activities to be saved,
and stay saved!
To some haughty
stiffnecked ones, I have said sweetly, "I wish you the best of luck, I
sincerely hope you will do well enough to enter heaven." Elijah did use
sarcasm; Apostle Paul, too.
To others, we want
to patiently and graciously help them to see the distinction between eternal
salvation by the sovereign activities of the Triune God ALONE in our eternal
salvation, which makes it possible for His children (i.e. the elect that are
already effectually called) to obey/do the will of their Father to save
themselves with temporal salvation.
O the joy and
comfort and assurance of salvation in knowing the distinction.
God's activities of saving His elect are certain, effectual, and immutable - once saved BY GOD, a man is
Let us lead others
into this joy, comfort, and assurance.
How can a man
honestly have assurance if his eternal salvation is indeed conditioned upon his
activities in whatsoever way???
[16/01/2021, 06:01] Sunny:
Correct! Arminians instead of Armenians, the
people. Bro Jonathan, in his bible study before on comparison of Arminians,
Calvinists and Bible-believing Christians, mentioned to beware of the word
Arminians and Armenians. Sorry
Pastor, thank you
for your simple yet complete understanding of the difference. It is indeed
a precis, instead of being wordy.
I learned one
important lesson here. Practice makes perfect, simply doing it better each
time. Put them in writing, even better each time. May our Lord bless our
conscientious effort as a local church!
[17/01/2021, 17:17] Sing:
Sunny @ 3. The
Calvinists indeed believe the doctrine of election; and they rightly conclude
that every elect will finally be in heaven. All biblical and sound.
John 6:39 KJV —
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he
hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last
day."
However, the
Calvinists introduce a human element into that divine equation that completely
destroys the certainty of the salvation of each elect given to Christ.
What's the human
element that the Calvinists introduce in the divine equation? It is their
misguided doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints.
First, the
Calvinists twisted this doctrine. The original intent of this doctrine states
that all those whom God effectually called out of their native state of sin and
death into that of grace and salvation will *immutably remain* in that state of
grace and salvation in Christ Jesus. This deals with our eternal salvation. The
Calvinists turn this into the saints' act of persevering in a life of faith and
holiness as a condition and evidence of their eternal salvation.
Romans 8:
38 "For I am
persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor
powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor
depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of
God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
The love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord, deals with our eternal salvation.
The perseverance of
the saints in faith and holiness relates only to their spiritual well-being,
i.e. temporal salvation.
The Calvinists -
because of their ignorance of the distinction between eternal salvation by the
free and sovereign grace of God alone and temporal salvation by the obedience
of men to God's will - like their first cousins Arminians, have also introduced
their works, i.e. their perseverance in a life of faith and holiness, into the
equation of salvation.
They will rant,
" Oh, God saved us by His grace, but we must work out that
salvation."
No, no, no! There are two distinct salvations. It is like the life our parents gave to us, and the life we must labour to get for ourselves are different life. Until they see the distinction, they remain in confusion and pervert the gospel.
[17/01/2021, 21:50] Sing:
Consistent
Calvinists will insist that people like Lot, Samson, Solomon, etc, who did not
persevere in a life of faith and holiness to the end of their lives, are eternally lost. To them, the
failure to persevere to the end of their lives is proof that they are not God's
elect. Their assumption is "God's children will persevere to the end of
their life; God's grace guarantees that."
It is like saying, "those Americans who did not attain the American Dream are not Americans." Or saying, "men who are not healthy and robust to the end of their lives are not men." 😢😢😢.
