 |
Let's ask a few
questions concerning the statement, |
[15/01/2021, 15:43]
Sing
Brethren,
Asther said:
"Me too, I don't believe that 'once saved, always saved'. I don't stand on either Calvinism or
Arminianism, I only believe in what the Bible says...."
Brethren, I hope you have at least read the exchanges between Asther and Elice. If you haven't, it betrays one sad thing: a lack of interest in knowing or ministering to visitors.
Asther made an interesting statement on "once saved, always saved."
An Arminian curses this as a damnable heresy; a Calvinist glories in it.
How will you, who is neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, assist someone to understand the word of God more perfectly who opines "once saved, always saved"?
Are you skilled enough to minister to others?
Aquila and Priscilla, the tent-making couple instructed by Apostle Paul, were skilled enough to assist the theologian Apollos.
Let's talk about it.
[15/01/2021, 18:22]
Khawy
1. Does she know the
eternal salvation of God vs conversion?
2. The Armenians
condemn once saved, always saved, as they claim God keeps adding names in the
Lamb's book of life. Most of them are of the opinion that people are saved on
earth through the hearing of the gospel only, and not eternally given life,
waiting for regeneration or conversion. Because of such a lack of belief that
God's chosen saints are bequeathed with eternal salvation.
3. However, Calvinists, on the other hand, believe in the election of saints. Everyone would be found in heaven at the end time. Those not found or gathered at end time
are spurious and unbelievers.
4. The Calvinists
believe the true elect will not lose their salvation on the ground once saved, always saved.
However, there is a
mega church where the main Pastor preached once saved, forever saved. No matter
how one saint lives temporally.
5. Our belief is
grounded as our bible stipulated:
a. Eternal salvation
b. Legal salvation
by our eldest brother
c. Vital calling or
conversion at the proper time.
d. Temporal
salvation
e. Glorification at
the great Judgment Day.
Yes, we must be clear we are eternally saved n our names in the Lamb's book of life. But we must be converted daily in our lives as working out our salvation with fear and trembling. We must have faith in God that His salvation is efficacious. But we must qualify our faith in Christ with good works. Yes, Esther stated her notion as once saved forever. But we have to listen and get to know her better, why she couldn't stand either Arminian or calvinistic beliefs. Maybe she has discovered more from our bible we could have overlooked.
Just my opinion...and understanding. However to be corrected from our bible so I will have more complete knowledge of knowing our Lord 🙏🙏🙏
[15/01/2021, 23:50]
Sing
1. Does she know the
eternal salvation of God vs conversion?
-------
I think you meant to
ask: Does she know the distinction between eternal and temporal salvation?
Eternal salvation and temporal salvation form a contrasting couplet just as regeneration and conversion do likewise.
I'm not sure;
probably not. Few do. We need to find out.
It would be great if our people are skilled to assist those who would bring up the issue of "once saved, forever saved" - whether they are for or against it. We want to be Aquila and Priscilla to show them the way of God more perfectly. Acts 18:26. But just be aware that those with the teachable spirit of Apollos are uncommon.
An excellent way to find out is to ask them innocent questions so that we understand what they do, and don't believe about the matter. Asking apt questions will also inevitably expose their inconsistencies and contradictions; this will then provide the opportunity to show them the truth.
"Once saved, forever saved" is both true and false at the same time but in a distinct and different sense.
Only those who know and understand the distinction between eternal salvation by grace alone and temporal salvation conditioned upon the obedience of God's children can adequately explain the matter.
What useful questions can we ask to assist them to understand the issue correctly?
As indicated by Khawy, both the Arminians as well as the Calvinists are quite confused on the matter because they don't see the distinction between the eternal and the temporal salvation.
[16/01/2021, 00:44]
Sing
2. The Arminians (followers
of the teaching of Jacobus Arminius; Armenians are the people of Armenia)
condemn "once saved forever saved" because they do indeed read in the
Scriptures that they must work out their own salvation... Esther aptly quoted
Phi 2:12 to prove her point. There are many passages that speak of the active
role of believers for them to be saved, and stay saved. So, from their
perspective, "once saved, forever saved" is plainly contradicting the
Bible.
We know where the problem lies: the salvation spoken of in those passages that involve the ONGOING activities of men is only temporal salvation; they understand them as speaking of eternal salvation. In their understanding, their eternal destiny hinged upon their activities to be saved, and stay saved!
To some haughty stiff-necked ones, I have said sweetly, "I wish you the best of luck, I sincerely hope you will do well enough to enter heaven." Elijah did use sarcasm; Apostle Paul, too.
To others, we want to patiently and graciously help them to see the distinction between eternal salvation by the sovereign activities of the Triune God ALONE in our eternal salvation, which make it possible for His children (i.e. the elect that are already effectually called) to obey/do the will of their Father to save themselves with temporal salvation.
O the joy and comfort and assurance of salvation in knowing the distinction.
Let us lead others
into this joy, comfort, and assurance.
How can a man honestly has assurance if his eternal salvation is indeed conditioned upon his activities in whatsoever way???
[16/01/2021, 06:01]
Khawy
Correct! Arminians
instead of Armenians, the people. Bro Jonathan in his bible study before on
comparison of Arminians, Calvinists and Bible believing Christians mentioned to
beware of the word Arminians n Armenians. Sorry
Sir, thank you for your simple yet complete understanding of the difference. It is indeed a precis...instead of being wordy.
I learned one important lesson from here. Practice makes perfect, simply doing it better each time. Put them in writing even better each time. May our Lord bless our conscientious effort as a local church!
[17/01/2021, 17:17]
Sing
3. The Calvinists
indeed believe the doctrine of election; and they rightly conclude that every
elect will finally be in heaven. All biblical and sound.
John 6:39 KJV —
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he
hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last
day."
However, the Calvinists introduce a human element into that divine equation that completely destroy the certainty of the salvation of each elect given to Christ.
What's the human element that the Calvinists introduce in the divine equation? It is their misguided doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints.
First, the Calvinists twisted this doctrine. The original intent of this doctrine states that all those whom effectually called out of their native state of sin and death into that of grace and salvation will *immutably remain* in that state of grace and salvation in Christ Jesus. This deals with our eternal salvation. The Calvinists turn this into the saints' act of persevering in a life of faith and holiness as a condition and evidence of their eternal salvation.
Romans 8:
38 "For I am persuaded,
that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor
things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor
depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of
God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
The love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord deals with our eternal salvation.
The perseverance of the saints in faith and holiness relates only to their spiritual wellbeing, i.e temporal salvation.
The Calvinists - because of their ignorance of the distinction between eternal salvation by the free and sovereign grace of God alone and, temporal salvation by the obedience of men to God's will - like their first cousins Arminians, have also introduced their works, i.e. their perseverance in a life of faith and holiness, into the equation of salvation.
They will rant, " Oh, God saved us by His grace, but we must work out that salvation."
No, no, no! They are two distinct salvations. It is like the life our parents gave to us, and the life we must labour to get for ourselves are different life. Until they see the distinction, they remain in confusion and pervert the gospel.
[17/01/2021, 21:50]
Sing
Consistent
Calvinists will insist that people like Lot, Samson, Solomon, etc, who did not
persevere in a life of faith and holiness, are eternally lost. To them, the
failure to persevere to the end of their lives is proof that they are not God's
elect. Their assumption are "God's children will persevere to the end of
their life; God's grace guarantees that."
It is like saying, "those Americans who did not attain the American Dream are not Americans." Or saying, "men who are not healthy and robust to the end of their lives are not men."
[18/01/2021, 21:52]
Sing
Let's ask a few
questions concerning the statement,
"Once saved,
always saved."
1. Who is the
subject of "once saved, always saved"?
- Once saved, always saved by who?
2. What kind of
salvation is spoken of?
3. Who alone
accomplished that salvation?
4. How is that
salvation applied to you?
5. Why is once saved
by God, always saved?
6. Did you play any
part in that "once saved, always saved"?
