Date: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:08 am
Sing,
can you tell us the major differences between your understanding of divine
predestination and that taught by the Islamics?
Brian
======
Mar 12, 2007, 10:49 AM
Brainy
Brian,
I
don't know if I can; I don't know what is "taught by the Islamics."
It
is odd that you ask such a question; it betrays your serious difficulties with
my view of predestination. What have I written that conveys SUCH a fatalistic
idea in your mind? I'm just curious.
I can tell you the little I know what I understand the Bible to say on predestination.
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30.
EVERYTHING HERE IS MONERGISTIC - SOLELY AND COMPLETELY by free and sovereign divine grace - of pure and unadulterated divine grace in our eternal salvation. Also, all the divine actions here embrace and apply to every single elect in Christ, without exception.
Now
let me explain.
The
first basic point to note concerning Romans 8:29-30 is that the people embraced
here include every single elect. This simple fact should inform us how we
understand the wonderful declaration... The exact number predestinated is the
same number effectually called unto eternal life through free grace justification
based solely on the righteousness and blood of Jesus Christ. Every single elect
predestinated to be conformed to the image of God’s Son, God called... God
justified... and God glorified… all by God’s free grace, without any human
co-operation. Not a single elect of God missed this call. So, what is this
call? Is it the gospel call to faith or the effectual call unto eternal life?
This call cannot be the gospel call to conversion - because the gospel call to
conversion does not reach every single elect who is effectually called unto
eternal life, see 1689.10.3. The call here is the divine effectual call unto
eternal life - and this is true of every single elect, with no exception
whatsoever, 1689.10.1.
Every elect is called unto eternal life by the direct and immediate and efficacious call of God through His Word (life-giving Christ) and Spirit. This He did by justifying them, i.e. He removed the just condemnation upon them, and imputed to them personally the righteousness of Christ, all by pure free grace, not on condition of faith. One is gravely mistaken in understanding the call in Romans 8:30 has anything to do with the gospel call. It is classic eisegesis by very many - the free-willer as well as the so-called 'reformed' folks.
The justification spoken here is the justification applied to an elect at effectual calling unto eternal life, spoken of in 1689.11.1. This is the justification applied to every single elect personally. This is not the justification experienced by faith through the gospel call - because not all the elect will receive the gospel call and experience justification by faith. The justification spoken of here is justification before faith is possible; i.e. justification applied when an elect was in his native state of sin and condemnation. This passage does not support the view of the gospel call leading to justification by faith. There is no gospel call here. There is no justification by faith here.
There is an effectual call unto life... effectual call unto life requires the removal of the condemnation of death, i.e. it requires the justification secured by Christ to be applied to the elect personally. There is justification by divine free grace through the righteousness of Christ applied to an elect personally. When condemnation is removed, eternal life is bestowed; yes, eternal life is bestowed... thus guaranteeing glorification. Effectual call unto eternal life guarantees glorification regardless of the amount of temporal salvation blessings one will experience through the ministry of the word.
There is no gospel call here. Apostle Paul did not say, “whom the preacher called God justified.” The preacher issues a gospel call to conversion. But what did Christ say about the call to life? John 5:25 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” Please note, this does not say the ministry of the preached word, nor the preached words of Christ, it is not the voice of the preacher, but the ‘voice of the Son of God’. How easy it is to usurp Christ in the effectual calling of the spiritually dead elect to eternal life with the preachers’ gospel call of the regenerated elect to believe in the truth.
Those that God has predestinated to eternal salvation, God himself will bring them to eternal salvation, without any assistance or cooperation from finite man.
Where then is the place of the ministry of the word? Good question. It is indispensable for God's children - elect already regenerated by God - to hear the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation (Eph 1:13). They need to hear and know the truth of their glorious salvation by God's grace. God has appointed the ministry of the word to bring temporal blessings to His children here on earth.
The ministry of the word is MOST NECESSARY - but only for the purpose it is ordained by God, not what man has VAINLY imagined. Preachers have been called to feed the lambs... but many have vainly and foolishly thought that God called them and commissioned them to HELP God birth His children. The command is, "Go, and make disciples..." Too many think it is, "Go and make children of God." God's children must be discipled... instructed and taught the truth of their eternal salvation by God's free grace, taught to observe all the commands of Christ - this will bring them temporal salvation in this life. The command is, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations..." Only those whom God has already effectually called to eternal life, saved eternally, are capable of receiving teaching from God-sent preachers. Too many foolishly think, "Go ye, therefore, and assist God to bring forth His children."
The
ministry of the word is MOST UNNECESSARY for the BEING of God's children.
The
ministry of the word is MOST NECESSARY for the WELL-BEING of God's children.
It was never ordained for that purpose. Deluded men have perverted it. I have not heard of a father who ever claimed that diapers and baby clothing have anything to do with the BEING, the conception and birth of a child. But there are too many deluded preachers and believers that the ministry of the word and faith has something to do with their BEING as children of God.
Without
the ministry of the word, not one jot of the eternal salvation of one elect is
ever lost.
Without the ministry of the word, a child of God is deprived of the temporal salvation which comes from the ministry of the word. That explains the urgency of 'preach the word, be instant in season, and out of season...' That explains the command, 'take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou BOTH SAVE THYSELF, AND TEHM that hear thee.'
Would the eternally wise God risk the eternal salvation of His elect by conditioning it upon something finite man must cooperate and assist? God forbids.
That's about all I know - and it is a fraction of a drop in the South China Sea.
God is sovereign, and I am an optimist; I'm no fatalist as indicated by your question.
Now, you may tell me the difference between what I believe and what you think (i.e. fatalism) is taught by the Islamics about predestination.
sing
