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| Will God accept anyone who does not love Him? He reconciled us when we were enemies! |
On Mar 13, 2007, at 7:20 PM,
Brainy Brian inquired at the particularbaptist@yahoogroups.com discussion group.
Sing, will God accept anyone who does not love Him? Is our love to Him as important as the legal ramifications of justification to Him? Do those who have not called upon the name of the only begotten Son of God, love Him? Can they even know Him?
Brian
====
Brainy
Brian,
I
am puzzled most of the time by your rhetorical interrogative questions, and I
ask myself what have I written that provokes such questions.
Let
me give my sandy thoughts to your 'rhetorical' questions - so put on goggles.
1.
Will God accept anyone who does not love Him?
As
I understand from the Bible, God's amazing acceptance of a sinner - condemned, dead and
alienated slave - begins in TIME by His free and sovereign work of effectually
calling him personally to grace and salvation - by removing that condemnation
through justification, by removing that spiritual deadness through
regeneration, and by removing that alienation through adoption and bestowing
the Holy Spirit to dwell in His child. God put His laws into their mind and
wrote them in their hearts, Heb 8:10. I do expect such as born of God Himself
will somehow love God from the heart no matter how ignorant he may be. HOWEVER,
I do believe that the gospel ministry would enhance that love for God in a
mighty manner. Nevertheless, God ACCEPTED [simple past tense] a sinner while he
was in enmity against Him and gave His only begotten Son.
God the Father does
scourge and chastise a loveless and cold-hearted child of His. The issue of
acceptance with God is a settled matter once and for all by God Himself... by His
free and sovereign grace. In Jesus Christ, God accepted a sinner in enmity against Him!
2.
Is our love to Him as important as the legal ramifications of justification to
Him?
I don't
understand your question. What are the legal ramifications of justification? If
you tell me what they are, and how important they are to God, then I may attempt
to answer your question.
3.
Do those who have not called upon the name of the only begotten Son of God,
love Him?
The simple answer is NO. I hope this is the answer you wanted to hear. Why, do you expect me
to say 'yes.'
Their BEING as sons of God is independent of and PRIOR to their calling upon the name of the only begotten Son of God. They were born sons of God on the basis of the life and death of the only begotten Son of God. The gospel ministry is to inform them of the truth concerning their Lord and Saviour --- that they may hear and believe Him and call upon Him. Without the gospel ministry, they would have no knowledge of their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. They would be deprived of the temporal salvation which the ministry of the word has been appointed for. Ignorance is certainly no bliss... it deprives a child of God, destined and fitted for eternal salvation by God's free and sovereign grace - of so much temporal blessing while he lives here on this earth.
God does not just care for the eternal salvation of His elect. He cares for the temporal salvation of His elect here on earth too. That explains the command, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even to the end of the world."
The
command here has NOTHING to do with the eternal salvation of God's elect. The
Triune God takes care of that all by Himself... Romans 8:28-29. The command
here has to do with the temporal salvation of God's children - go and teach
God's children that are found in all nations... in teaching and preaching, God's
children are made manifest by their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ... these are
to be baptized and gathered into NT churches... to be taught to observe the
instruction of Christ here on earth as they trod through this world to their
eternal home.
4.
Can they even know Him?
Ordinarily,
without the ministry of the word, GOD'S CHILDREN would have no knowledge of
Christ.
They
are eternally saved by grace alone that they may know Christ... and be saved
timely through the gospel ministry. Eternal salvation in Jesus Christ PRECEDES saving knowledge of Him.
"And this is life eternal, THAT - THAT -THAT they might thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
Now
tell me how many buckets of sand you will send over.
sing
==========
Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 2:48 AM
To:
ParticularBaptist <particularbaptist@yahoogroups.com>
Brainy
Brian,
Please
peruse my responses (**) to your (BB) further comments.
Brainy
1. Will God accept anyone who does not love Him?
sing said:
God the Father does scourge and chastise a loveless and cold-hearted child of
His.
BB:
Sing, I deleted the contents that you and I agree on, the remaining sentence
seems to be the crux of our differences.
##
So what is the difference? Is it that you do believe every child of God, by
virtue of that divine act of regeneration from spiritual death, would love God
intelligently without the ministry of the word? I do believe the ministry of
the word is very essential if a child of God is to love Him intelligently.
Or is it that you believe that the ministry of the word is an indispensable means for the regeneration of sinners dead in trespasses and sin. I do believe God produces His children without the slightest help from man. But his training is left to the ministry of the word!
2.
Is our love to Him as important as the legal ramifications of justification to
Him?
sing said:
Don't understand your question. What are the legal ramifications of
justification? If you tell me what they are, and how important they are to God,
then I may attempt to answer your question.
BB:
Justification is all about legality, it is a court room term. It means that the
sinner stands before God just and undeserving of the Law's penalty. What I am
asking here is this, Is the love of the redeemed sinner for God as important as
his being justified?
##: For that, you have to ask God: whether the love of the redeemed for God is as important as their being justified. I really don't know.
What
I can tell you are these:
-
God Himself justifies the UNGODLY by His free grace, without any means or any
assistance from the person justified... because the person justified is in his native state of condemnation and death.
-
God Himself, freely and sovereign, justifies EVERY ELECT - so that NONE of His
elect would remain under their just condemnation and perish eternally.
-
God Himself, freely and sovereignly GUARANTEE the legal justification of every
elect ... and this justification is not conditioned upon
anything in man, or of man.
-
God Himself, freely and sovereignly GUARANTEED that each and every elect is
EQUALLY justified legally - based solely and completely upon the same righteousness of Christ.
I can't tell you if I could say the same about God working freely and sovereignly in each of His redeemed elect so that every one of them would automatically and without fail love Him? I suppose if the love of His redeemed people for God is important enough FOR HIM, He would make sure that it is so by His wisdom and omnipotent power - that EVERY justified elect would love God with the noble power that the glorified saints now have!
What I can tell you is this: God did appoint the ministry of the word, so that His redeemed people may be instructed and taught the truth, be trained in all righteousness, and godliness... exhorted to love God because He has first loved them. I think for God's redeemed people to love God is VERY IMPORTANT for the redeemed people themselves... their loving God is absolutely essential to their own spiritual WELL-BEING here on earth. It is important enough to God that He sovereignly and wisely appointed means - the ministry of the word in the context of local churches - to that end.
BB:
3. Do those who have not called upon the name of the only begotten Son of God,
love Him?
sing said:
Simple answer, NO. I hope this is the answer you wanted to hear. Why, do you
expect me to say 'yes.'
BB:
Then they have not been brought where they even begin to fulfil the first and
greatest commandment
## That's the important function of the ministry of the word - to bring the children of God to the knowledge of that first and greatest commandment. "How then shall they call upon the name of the Lord in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14
Go, preach the gospel and make disciples of
such... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever Christ has commanded - which
includes "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with
all thy soul, and with all thy mind. " Teach him, and train him, rebuke
and correct him...
Brother, have you begun to FULFILL the first and greatest commandment yet? Do you ever hope to fulfil it?
BB Matthew 22:36-38 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."
Isn't this a commandment that would have been in effect pre-fall? Are you saying that when God regenerates or gives spiritual birth, they are not new creatures? Their basic morality has not changed?
##
Pre-fall or not, I don't remember saying one way or another. You tell us what
you think.
When God regenerates and gives ETERNAL life (the term 'spiritual life' DOES NOT occur in the NT) a sinner is made a new creature. There is a new creation. They are given a new nature, with a new inclination. They are now CAPABLE of receiving the things of the Spirit of God... they are capable of being trained and instructed in righteousness and godliness. Regeneration DOES NOT bring them to a life of righteousness and godliness. Righteousness and godliness MUST BE TAUGHT and INSTRUCT through the ministry of the word.
You
are probably saying that the divine work of regeneration AUTOMATICALLY brings
about a radical change in the outward life of righteousness and godliness. I
really wish this is the case. Pastoral work would be so easy and tearless! But
alas, that just a silly dream. There would be godliness and righteousness
everywhere!!!
BB: Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
##
Just who do you think God is addressing? Pagans?
Remember
the folly of wise Solomon in dabbling with IDOLATRY???
God's
very own children are inclined to all forms of idolatry... called spiritual
adultery...
Who
do think James was warning in his epistle? Pagan Gentiles, or God's children?
BB:
What is jealousy? It is not wrath produced by the alienation of affection from
one to another? If God is not loved, He is jealous.
##
Yes and yes, if God is not loved by His redeemed people, He would be VERY jealous.
All go to show that God's people do fail to love God as they should, and they
fail miserably... and I fail more miserably. Don't think you do any better!
God
cares not the least bit when the children of the devil love Him not. God
expects the children of the devil to hate him... that is acting true to their
nature.
BB:
Jesus goes so far as to say,
John
8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were
your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither
came I of myself, but he sent me.
##
Of course... these people have been taught and instructed by the Lord Jesus
himself... they have the oracles of God... if they are the children of God,
they would receive and love Christ, sent by God.
But
they were of their father the devil.
BB. If God were your father, you would love Me. But you say that this is not a true statement, rather it should be, "If God were your father AND YOU HAVE ALSO HAVE HEARD THE GOSPEL AND PLACED YOUR FAITH IN ME.. then you will love me, BUT AS FAR AS YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
## The children of God need to hear the gospel if they are ever to call upon the Lord Jesus Christ. Read Romans 10:13-15. And for heaven's sake, ONLY GOD'S CHILDREN - regenerated with eternal life, would call upon the Lord. But no hearing, no calling. No calling no temporal salvation. They already have ETERNAL SALVATION through effectual calling by the free and sovereign grace of God when they were in their native state of sin and condemnation.
If a child of God has not heard the gospel of their salvation and is not instructed concerning the Saviour Jesus Christ, how would they love the Lord Jesus Christ? How shall they love Him of whom they have not heard???
Your eternal salvation is a SETTLED matter... you contribute nothing to you. You cannot improve it one tiny bit even if you have 1000 lives to live. And you can't possibly love Jesus Christ your Saviour and Lord if you have not heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, BROUGHT TO YOU.
BB:
This is not what Christ said. How are the elect of God manifested? They flee to
Christ in repentance. How many of the elect flee to Christ. "ALL that the
Father hath given Me shall come to Me." Being born of God and fleeing to
Christ are not separate operations that can occur only half way and not be
completed.
##
"ALL that the Father hath given Me shall come to Me."
Brainy,
sometimes you can be TOO BRAINY that you end up shooting your own feet... fortunately, it is just your own feet, and not your own brain, for that would be the
end of this discussion. <grin>.
You
did read my comments on Romans 8:29-30 didn't you? Have you forgotten what is
said there.?
Do
you really want to make this statement "ALL that the Father hath given Me
shall come to Me" to mean that every elect of God will hear the gospel and
flee to Christ?
I
suggest to you that the statement makes more sense if you understand "All
that the Father hath given to Me shall come to Me" because the Father will
draw each one to Christ in effectual calling to grace and salvation, the Father
will UNITE each elect to Christ in the effectual calling to eternal salvation.
In this sense alone, the statement can be true of every single elect. All are
EFFECTUALLY CALLED. NOT ALL are outwardly called by the gospel.
Effectual call unto grace and salvation is a separate and distinct operation by the free and sovereign grace of God, WITHOUT the aid, or cooperation of man whatsoever. God begins and completes it Himself, without human aid. He freely and sovereignly brings His children into BEING. The gospel call to bring God's children to believe the truth is a separate and distinct operation delegated to His church to carry out. This operation is very essential for the WELL-BEING of God's people here on earth.
BB, People are different. Some are enlightened and convicted of sin for some time before they come to Christ. But once fully regenerated, they will flee to Christ. He that predestined the regeneration has also predestined the gospel witness.
##
The regenerated, when they hear the word of truth, the gospel of their
salvation, are drawn to the truth by the Spirit of God. There are regenerate
children of God who do not have the opportunity to hear the word of truth, the gospel of their
salvation. The hearing of the gospel is necessary for them to call upon the
name of the Lord. For those regenerate whom the gospel failed to reach, there would
be no calling upon the Lord Jesus... yet they do have love for God in their
heart. Cornelius is a good example. But the gospel came to him, and he was
converted. He was regenerated long before the gospel was brought to him by
Peter.
God decreed regeneration for EVERY SINGLE elect of His.
Christ
commanded the gospel witness to be preached.
Sorry, run OUT
OF SAND...
sing, from the far east south seas
===========
p/s
Is any child of God less than FULLY regenerated?
Is regeneration a process, or an instantaneous act?
