Things New and Old: The Ancient Theocratic Israel and the Modern Secular Israel

Initially posted here
https://web.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid07gVnuFg5DEYQ3Y5yrtCVAFrum63vj14wJ6rKDstGxsq3DdkC2mv9R5bmsLsv7Sjql

October 13, 2023
The earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel, having fulfilled God's purpose in the outworking of the redemption of His people by Jesus, became geriatric and was forever done away with in 70 AD.

The modern Israel today is NOT THE SAME as the earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel in the Bible; they are remotely related. However, the modern nation of Israel has as much right as any other sovereign nation to exist and live in peace with its neighbours. I wish the modern nation of Israel God's blessings and protection from the bloodthirsty murderers. Amen.

Matthew 24 KJT
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The end of what world was in the mind of the disciples? The end of the world of the earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel, of course. This was prompted by the Lord's solemn words about the buildings of the temple, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Those words were understood by the disciples as THE END of the Jewish world as a theocratic kingdom.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The gospel of the kingdom of God shall be preached to all the Jews, scattered throughout all the nations in the vast Roman Empire, for a witness. Then THE END of THEIR earthly theocratic Israel shall come.

It came in 70 AD when the Roman Army brought the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION with a vengeance and brought a complete END to the earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel. It has no place alongside the spiritual kingdom of heaven/God. With the new, the old is completely abolished, and in a violent manner, to bring home the points to the stiffnecked unbelieving Jews.

Romans 16:26 KJT
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith."

MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS" for a witness to the Jews scattered amongst ALL THOSE NATIONS. Then the end came.

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p/s this is not to condone in any remote sense the abominable heinousness of the senseless slaughter of fellow human lives by any party.

Don't play with the double-edged sword.

Matthew 26:52 KJT "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Read this interesting article here:
http://www.financetwitter.com/2023/10/israel-at-war-how-biden-funded-terrorist-hamas-with-6-billion-dollar-and-why-hamas-invasion-was-a-dumb-move.html

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Some comments follow

余雅靜
I like to hear your comment on this:
https://www.facebook.com/jeff.winfrey.568/videos/682361697189150/?mibextid=cr9u03

sing
余雅靜 No comment. You are free to comment on what I have written above. I'm ready to learn from you. Thanks.

余雅靜
Sing F Lau Nah! I am still learning about this topic as I do not know well this topic (and am not afraid to admit that to you or anyone else), and I could possibly be a partial preterist.

Most of the prophecies did happen in the 70 AD such as the one you have mentioned, but in that same chapter of Matthew 24, that you have shared, we read the following… ‘30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.’

We haven’t had anything like that in history before, at least not that I know of, but do correct me if you have seen something that has happened from the scripture. As for now, I believe that there are no men who know when the gathering of the people is.

However, I am still trying to learn more about the concept of the differences between the natural Israel vs. the spiritual Israel. I do believe that the kingdom of Israel is a type and foreshadow of the kingdom of God, which I believe is the 1st heaven which were past away. The spiritual Israel is the church, as I view that 1 Peter 2:9 as a cross-reference to Deuteronomy 14:2.

sing
余雅靜: You already know a whole lot more than I do. I was looking at those passages and state what I believe they say.

Mt 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What's the great tribulation spoken of? When did it happen? And what followed immediately after those days of great tribulation?

Verses 30 and 31 should be understood in the context of the said great tribulation.

Mt 26: 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

What was Jesus telling the Sanhedrin? When did His coming in the cloud of heaven happen, and for what?

Bradley Hilton
This generally Preterist interpretation is only half true. What Jesus said was [Luk 21:24 KJV] 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Jerusalem a literal place was trampled down in ad66-70 but that was not the end of it. Hadrian trampled down Jerusalem in 135ad killing some 580,000 Jews in his war, and he plowed the city through and renamed it, Aelia Capitolina in an attempt to erase it forever, however, it recovered. It was attacked by the Persians in 614 and regained but lost to the Saracens. Then in 1099, the infamous crusade of the RCC instigated by the Pope resulted in rivers of blood from the Jews and Muslims. Then the Turks captured Jerusalem and had control until 1917 when the British defeated the Turks and the Balfour declaration was made. A jubilee after that in 1967 the Jews in the six-day war regained control of Jerusalem.

Consequently, Luke 21:24 was not fulfilled in ad 70, the times of the gentile domination of Jerusalem did not end then.

sing
Ah, you are reading. Is anything I have said unclear? Which part is not agreeable to you?

Bradley Hilton
Read my post sir is it not clear enough? Preterism is not the answer Historicism is the better eschatology IMHO.

sing
This -ism and that -ism.
Which Scriptures that I have explained above do you not understand or disagree. That's a good place to start. `
I have no idea what the two big words you have used. My apology.

Bradley Hilton
This post: is in response to what you had posted.

This generally Preterist interpretation is only half true. What Jesus said was [Luk 21:24 KJV] 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Jerusalem a literal place was trampled down in ad66-70 but that was not the end of it. Hadrian trampled down Jerusalem in 135ad killing some 580,000 Jews in his war, and he plowed the city through and renamed it, Aelia Capitolina in an attempt to erase it forever, however, it recovered. It was attacked by the Persians in 614 and regained but lost to the Saracens. Then in 1099, the infamous crusade of the RCC instigated by the Pope resulted in rivers of blood from the Jews and Muslims. Then the Turks captured Jerusalem and had control until 1917 when the British defeated the Turks and the Balfour declaration was made. A jubilee after that in 1967 the Jews in the six-day war regained control of Jerusalem.

Consequently, Luke 21:24 was not fulfilled in ad 70, the times of the gentile domination of Jerusalem did not end then.

sing
Sir, you are fixated on a physical Jerusalem. What was done away in 70AD was the heart and essence of all that represented the earthly theocratic nation of Israel; that ended for good. You are right, the physical Jerusalem continued to be around through those years, but Israel as an earthly theocratic kingdom of God was gone... ended by the divine judgement upon it. The Jews as an ethnic group are still around, and as a modern secular nation, it is a big thorn in the eyes of wild donkeys around it.

Bradley Hilton
Sir you have a beam in your eye. What Jerusalem did Jesus say would be trampled down? Did he also say it would be forever? No he said literal Jerusalem would be trampled down UNTIL the times of the Gentiles were ended. The way we know those times ended is when GENTILES stopped trampling down Jerusalem. It is not Gentiles who are in control of Jerusalem today is it. This has nothing to do with the new covenant or a "theocratic government" of Israel. There is only one king and one kingdom and the Jews must repent to get into it or perish. This has nothing to do with Jesus's prophecy in Luke 21:24 which proves Preterist interpretation to be in error, at best a half-truth

sing
Why are you wasting time with a man who has a beam in his eye? Not wise of you, Sir. What ended in 70AD was the earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel that was constituted at the foot of Mt Sinai. You seem to be reasoning that since Jerusalem is still around, it's not possible that the old theocratic kingdom has been done away with.

Bradley Hilton
Not so, you miss the message fully. My reasoning is Preterism is an erroneous eschatology

sing
Matthew 24 KJT
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
======

i. "... the buildings of the temple."
- It was not, "this city of God Jerusalem."
- The temple was the heart of the earthly theocratic kingdom of Israel. Too many are fixated on physical Jerusalem.

ii. Of the buildings of the temple,
- "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." That's the complete end of it.
- The Lord Himself will ensure that

iii. "... the sign of thy coming..."
- coming to execute vengeance upon a stiffnecked and devil-possessed generation.
- Mat 12:45 "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

iv. "... and of the end of the world."
- The disciples understood the destruction of the temple buildings and the Lord's coming to execute vengeance as THE END of the Jewish world as a theocratic nation.

Sorry, I'm only repeating. But you are too fixated on physical Jerusalem, a dead carcass of its old self.

sing
It's so convenient to say "Preterism is an erroneous eschatology." I do abominate Preterism. Just deal with the Scriptures at hand.
[But you want to start with an -ism, and then force a passage of Scriptures to fit into that -ism. I'm interested in rightly dividing each passage of the Scriptures.]

Bradley Hilton
You are dealing with Matt 23:39 and Matthew 21:43 (KJV 1900): Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. I was dealing with Luke 21:24 which refutes a Preterist interpretation of Matt 24.

sing
Try to refute what I have said; not what I have not said. Isn't that easy for a smart man like you?

Bradley Hilton
Try denying that in your posts you are promoting a Preterist version of Matt 24.

sing
Sir, I'm not denying anything. Just show that my interpretation of the passage is wrong. Isn't that easy enough for a smart man like you? You haven't done that yet.

I have no interest in any -ism at all. I'm only interested in rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV — Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

sing
If you are not denying that you are promoting a Preterist interpretation of Matt 24, then you are in effect promoting it.

sing
Whatever suits you, Sir. I'm only interested in rightly dividing the word of truth. And if in doing so, I crush your tender toes, I tender my sincere apologies.

Bradley Hilton
Stupid sarcasm of as infantile a brand as that will never penetrate my steel-capped toes. Have a blessed day Mr half truth.

sing
You do have an axe to grind, don't you? Have some Preterists offended or wronged you personally? I could not care less about any -ism, including Preterism. I'm only interested in rightly dividing the word of truth. You are interested in putting Scriptures into neat boxes of your own making. I wish you well.

Bradley Hilton
Historicism, preterism, idealism, futurism, post-millennialism pre-millennialism amillennialism, You are the first ism less person I’ve ever heard of.

sing
Bradley Hilton They are neat ism boxes you have, all lined up in neat rows too.

I have no interest in -ism. That seems to piss you off much. I'm sorry, I really am. However, I'm only interested in rightly diving the word of truth. I couldn't care less which box you would put my understanding in. Enjoy your game.

Bradley Hilton
You don’t. If you’re interested in rightly dividing the word of truth then you will have no objection to explaining Rev 13:1-8. have a blessed day.

sing
Start a thread on your page and play the game with your friends. A fair suggestion, I think. Thanks.

Bradley Hilton
Thought so.

sing
Bradley Hilton At least we can agree on a little thing. Thanks.

Bradley Hilton
Yeah, you don't seem to have an eschatology. But are convinced about half the truth of Matt 24. Thanks

sing
I'll let you have the last say on the last things; this way is face-saving for you.

Bradley Hilton
That's so kind of you, your outward appearance is so telling.
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Bill Taylor
Amen!

Edna Allen Strickland
Very clear message!!!

sing
Edna Allen Strickland Those with cataracts won't see it.

Chris Hill
Amen!!

Tommy Dennis Taylor
Amen

Reggie Lee
Stole it!