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| Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures |
Initially posted here:
A mighty man greatly helped
by one ordinary couple, and increased in his usefulness.
Acts 18:
24 ¶ And a certain Jew
named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the
scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed
in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught
diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak
boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took
him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
27 And when he was disposed
to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive
him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
28 For he mightily
convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus
was Christ.
Lessons:
1. Even great men like
Apollos, are deficient in some doctrine and has a need to learn!
2. Even ordinary folks can
teach great men some truth!
3. Humility to learn the
truth is blessed with increases in one's usefulness!
Caution:
- don't assume men with DD
or Th.D got things all figured out. Not a few are self-conceited. Apollos
didn't and wasn't.
- don't be intimidated by
their august title and letters after their names. They, if humble like Apollos
can learn a few things from commoners like Priscilla and Aquila who were taught
by the Apostle Paul. Few have such humility and teachable spirit.
The Lord had abundant mercy
on me, granting me much grace to see and admit the many contradictions and
fictions in the things I was taught and believe as a reformed baptist for
nearly 20 years
======
Manuel R Briva
Hi Bro. Sing F Lau, may I
simply ask how would you identify yourself now if not Reformed Baptist? Asking
in goodwill.
Sing
I'm fine with the label old
school baptist.
I hope it is not
copyrighted. Lol.
Manuel R Briva
Thx. What I understand is
that Old Baptists has been adhering to Spirit Regeneration since their
existence, they did not come out from the belief of gospel regeneration. Just a
friendly observation though unsolicited one. Tnx for the reply.
[I knew where this conversation is leading; the same had taken place not a few times with some other Filipino PB converts; they are zealous in wanting me to wear the PB label.]
Sing
Thanks for your friendly
observation!
So, what should a man who
comes out from the belief of gospel regeneration call himself? What do you
suggest?
Not a few have harassed me
to get baptized by a Primitive Baptist before I can call myself an old school
baptist. I have been reminded that the old school baptist label has been
"copyrighted," and I have no right to use it unless I'm baptized by
the Primitive Baptist and wear their label. You have said the same, obliquely.
Thank you. I often see that PB converts are more PB than those that converted
them!
When the apostles were
cured of their serious errors on the nature of the kingdom of Christ, and
grasped the right understanding, what happened to them? When Apostle Peter
discovered a momentous truth in Acts 10 (v34ff), did he come out of a very
serious error? And what then?
Were they rebaptized, and
wear a new label? I speak as a fool.
Robert Cook Sr.
Sing, the issue, I think you know, is not as much understanding doctrine, but acknowledging the perpetuity of ordination and authority to Baptize, you are of course welcome to maintain your position, it won't change your eternal destiny, but I do think it hinders fellowship with the body of folks through whom many of the men today have learned their doctrine from, men like Ben Mott and Conrad Jarrel were Primitive Baptists before they set out on their own, they have in turn required the rebaptism and re-ordination of even their converts after having left the PB's. You also know that to be true of the Church at Greenville. The issue is more about fellowship and authority than doctrine though the doctrine of immediate Holy Spirit regeneration is unique to the Old School Baptists for a good reason.
Sing, the issue, I think you know, is not as much understanding doctrine, but acknowledging the perpetuity of ordination and authority to Baptize, you are of course welcome to maintain your position, it won't change your eternal destiny, but I do think it hinders fellowship with the body of folks through whom many of the men today have learned their doctrine from, men like Ben Mott and Conrad Jarrel were Primitive Baptists before they set out on their own, they have in turn required the rebaptism and re-ordination of even their converts after having left the PB's. You also know that to be true of the Church at Greenville. The issue is more about fellowship and authority than doctrine though the doctrine of immediate Holy Spirit regeneration is unique to the Old School Baptists for a good reason.
Manuel R Briva
Hi Bro. Sing F Lau, I can't add to your scholarly knowledge of biblical truth but I may just share to you my journey from four other sorts of baptists until I find peace and fully comforted having satisfied my conscience and the consciences of those who had been adhering to the same body of faith that I have embraced. There are some truths that can be mentally accepted, and there are some truths that need practical obedience after having been convinced by it to attain consistency and satisfaction.
Hi Bro. Sing F Lau, I can't add to your scholarly knowledge of biblical truth but I may just share to you my journey from four other sorts of baptists until I find peace and fully comforted having satisfied my conscience and the consciences of those who had been adhering to the same body of faith that I have embraced. There are some truths that can be mentally accepted, and there are some truths that need practical obedience after having been convinced by it to attain consistency and satisfaction.
Manuel R Briva
I may recommend also some
books and article for your readings, and perusal.
Manuel R Briva
Of course, you possess the
right to Christian Liberty and remain as you are without rebaptism, but
unknowingly treading a path that others have trodden. Consistency of truth is
everyone's difficult task. It takes patience to know things that we need to
know.
Manuel R Briva
Sorry for the harassment as
you "felt" it from fellow PBs, but I'm sure there are some who took
patience in replying to you.
Sing
Seriously Manuel, by your
initial question, I ALREADY knew where you are heading. I have been through it
with not a few very zealous PBs, some of them your fellow countrymen. So, thank
you very much. Try again some other time. Maybe the Lord will change my mind on
the matter.
Manuel R Briva
I can briefly reply to your
inquiry here and so willing to walk with you side by side for some prerequisite
and leading truths to arrive in your needed inquiry. For the meantime, you may
search & read History of Alien Immersion and Valid Baptism by John Harvey
Grime, his accounts on the Old Baptists requiring rebaptism will shed light
much. Inquiries about rebaptism and reordinations from History or Minutes of
Philadelphia Association 1707-1807.
Sing
What was my inquiry?
Manuel R Briva
Replying to your previous
question regarding what would I call for that conversion from gospel reg. to
spirit regeneration without rebaptism, it is the same as what the
"restorationist" movement have trodden. Some Reformed Baptists here
call that Neo Calvinism. I may kindly call that "Reformed
Reformationism" objectively speaking. Other foundation can no man lay than
that is laid which Jesus Christ, the chief cornerstone and the apostles as the
cornerstone. That foundation can't be repeated, nor modified, nor imitated. You
may speak English, but you can't consistently claim you're an American unless
you submit in the legal process.
Sing
Give me a name that will suit you, I will be fine with it.
Give me a name that will suit you, I will be fine with it.
Manuel R Briva
About Peter's conversion, as I understand, conversion can be classified as Conversion from, Conversion Unto, Conversion Through. Ex. Conversion from- M. Luther was converted from the works salvation of the catholic as he believed salvation by faith but he was never converted unto the bare essential truths as salvation by grace and biblical baptism. He would have been converted unto if he humbly accepted grace salvation and submitted to biblical baptism. Peter was converted from Judaism and was converted unto Christianity when he submitted to John's baptism. Conversion through is an ongoing
About Peter's conversion, as I understand, conversion can be classified as Conversion from, Conversion Unto, Conversion Through. Ex. Conversion from- M. Luther was converted from the works salvation of the catholic as he believed salvation by faith but he was never converted unto the bare essential truths as salvation by grace and biblical baptism. He would have been converted unto if he humbly accepted grace salvation and submitted to biblical baptism. Peter was converted from Judaism and was converted unto Christianity when he submitted to John's baptism. Conversion through is an ongoing
Manuel R Briva
… ongoing enlightenment of
truths after having converted from error to bare essential truths and have
undergone biblical beginnings or foundation such as baptism, ordination,
constitution. Peter has gone over to the first 2nd conversion, he was being
converted through as you referred to the above so no need repeat rebaptism.
Sing
That's an interesting
observation... Peter's conversion FROM Judaism took MANY years! So, when he was
a little converted from Judaism, and was baptized by John the Baptist, did his
baptism count?
According to your own
argument, it does not count, invalid. Am I correct?
Manuel R Briva
As I have told you
previously, there are some foundational truths that need to be complied with to
attain consistency with your profession, rebaptism is one of them. Some truths
need to know, such as church perpetuity, Regulative Principle, and Biblical
Foundation of the Lord's Church, and last Biblical Pattern of Church
Beginnings. It takes patience to understand. I'm willing to share them if
asked. Thanks.
Sing
Heard them all before many
times.
Did the Apostles cross all
the t's and dot all the i's of foundational truths you laid down above? (Are they not all arbitrary? Were the converts on the day of Pentecost aware of the foundational truth you have listed?)
Manuel R Briva
You have argued much with
excellence. If you're satisfied with what you are then no need to change but I
would kindly say that you can't escape Reformed Baptist baptism as they disown
you. Baptism reflects the kind of gospel profession you believed, it is also a
foundational ordinance that enables you to enjoy the rest of the truths
ordinance. Catholic baptism means the Catholic faith and profession.
(Sir, you made assertions; I asked questions about your assertions. You choose not to answer the questions, and went off a tangent!)
(Sir, you made assertions; I asked questions about your assertions. You choose not to answer the questions, and went off a tangent!)
Manuel R Briva
Thanks for the exchange
Brother Sing F Lau.
Sing
John the Baptist baptized
the Apostles and many others.
I hope you consider him a
qualified baptizer even though he may not have the FOUNDATION TRUTHS laid down
by you - that is, church perpetuity, Regulative Principle, and Biblical
Foundation of the Lord's Church, and last Biblical Pattern of Church,
Beginnings, etc. - all wrapped up.
Sing
@ "You have argued
much with excellence."
No, I have not started to
argue yet.
I was only comparing your
points with the Scriptures and see how they look like.
Manuel R Briva
Other group or denomination
tried to adopt some truths apart from biblical foundation- rebaptiam,
reordination, reconstitution but found themselves to "other foundation.
Some paedobaptist were converted to adult baptism and tried to correct it and
called themselves Regular Baptists, those who refuse to be rebaptised came out
to be Regular Baptists. John Smyth baptized his companion, then he was baptized
by him so it was called "sebaptism"
Sing
I have heard all those
scholarly arguments from your countrymen and from some very smart Americans. I
guess I'm not smart enough to be convinced, NOT yet.
Sing
I APOLOGISE for being a
big thorn in the eyes of PBs like yourself, as well as the RBs and many others
besides.
I do commend you for your
brotherly kindness in the effort to convert me to PBism. Most others have given
me up as a hopeless case.
Sing
Brother Manuel, a hearty
thank you for the exchanges.
You are a kind brother.
Manuel R Briva
No need for apology my
friend. You're not being a big thorn to anyone outside of you and yours for
standing for your position. If can ever can hurt anyone, it is your own
conscience and those who hear you or under your ministry... oh including the
next generation under you. If rebaptism is true, God has placed you in that
great capacity to lead them; the next generation after them. If you fail
to see its importance then you have closed that door for temporal saving of
them and the comfort of their consciences... and you'll end up laying your own
foundation.
Manuel R Briva
You are getting friendlier
than before, appreciate you much.
Sing
Thanks for your
persistence. I trust I know my own conscience enough before God without you
trying to insinuate otherwise.
Thanks for your zeal and
concern. You have just accused me of laying my own foundation and see it as
your duty to dig it up. God bless you, Manuel. That's probably the view of
every PB about the matter but you alone are bold enough saying it out loud. I
heard it loud and clear.
Manuel R Briva
No intention to hurt my
friend. I commend you for your sincerity and kind chatting with me. Level up
for such friendship with you.
Hoping for the time that
you will be ready to really sit down and hear from an Old Baptist instead of
arguing. Hear them attentively and be open. You cannot find a real treasure by
blowing up the ground. Be where they are and listen to why they believed such.
Remember, you are a spearheader to your next generation. I don't normally
engage in long chatting. But it's my joy to do it with you. God bless.
Sing
I'm no snowflake, so
hurting is a non-issue.
I don't either. Been
through it so many times. So save your effort. Invest it with some of your
countrymen. Thanks.
