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| A goose parading itself as a penguin! |
Dear Brother,
I answer within your post... marked ##
Your mail was sent at 3.00pm, arrived at my mailbox at 5.00pm.
== ... Just a while ago I listened to the sermon by Pastor Jonathan Crosby on the subject of Arminianism, Calvinism, and the truth. Tulip was explained in depth and the position of the Calvinist was explained. On the last two fronts: a) Irresistible grace and b) Perseverance of the saint. I need further clarification and help from you as it is just as if I was just introduced to the Tulip 25 years ago. Precious like gold with heart trepidation of the understanding that finally I can manage to understand why Christians behave and why the scripture exhorts me on certain points. Be patient with me like a babe that needs to be taught all over again to walk and Pastor, my heart is pumping furiously for want of the truth.==
## I have dealt with these two issues in the Pruning book - page 180ff (Irresistible call) and 198ff (Perseverance). Both these biblical truths have been perverted by modern RBs and ALL modern new school Calvinists.
== From my understanding of the sermon:
a) Irresistible grace: No! we CANNOT resist the grace of God in our regeneration and yet we can resist God in conversion. Is this what the good Pastor said in the sermon? ==
## You heard it correctly. IRRESISTIBLE GRACE has to do with Divine power in bringing each elect out of the state sin and death to grace and salvation. Such power cannot be resisted... when exercised it SHALL MOST CERTAINLY accomplish its DIVINE PURPOSE - immutably calling an elect out of the state of sin and death to that of grace and eternal salvation. Irresistible grace has NOTHING to do with conversion; it is PRIOR TO, INDEPENDENT OF, and DISTINCT FROM the conversion through the gospel ministry.
The RBs pervert the truth of Scriptures by fusing irresistible grace to/with the conversion. How can a dead man resist the power of the God in giving him life??? But a living man often resists the instruction of the Person who has raised him from the dead.
IF - IF - IF there is irresistible grace in conversion, THEN every man would be equally converted. But such idea is plainly and obviously an anti-scriptural idea.
== There is a varying degree of conversion but there is only one regeneration? ==
## Yes, you are right. There is only one regeneration... by EXACTLY the same agency, to EXACTLY the same degree, with EXACTLY the same effect - bestowed with eternal life. Regeneration is the act of God, instantaneous, unrepeatable, perfect and complete. Every elect of God is equally JUSTIFIED (imputed with the SAME righteousness, forgiven of the SAME condemnation), equally REGENERATED (equally brought out of their native state of sin and death to the SAME state of grace and salvation), and equally ADOPTED and given the SAME GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT to dwell in each of them.
Humanly speaking, every child conceived and born of a woman is born EQUALLY HUMAN.
== If this is so, then this is why often during the days of Dr. P..., he prayed for thorough conversion ie conversion till to dust so that we can become useful. That explains why some regenerated Christians do not have fully the fruits and graces of the Christians.==
## That is right. Conversion is a lifelong process... turning from that which is sinful (both in doctrines, and practices) is a continual process through life till we return to the dust. The act of bringing a man from spiritual death to eternal life needs no repetition; it is the instantaneous and immutable act of God. Conversion must necessarily be a lifelong process... the old man lusts again the new man. There is this constant warfare... read Paul's experience in Romans 7.
The more converted a child of God is, the more he is weaned from his old man, the more enlightened and instructed he is, the more capable he is to live in conformity to the will of God he is.
== It was mentioned by Pastor Crosby if we sit under poor ministry we could come away poorly taught and our conversions or changes are substandard. If these are what the sermon meant, then I thank my God for His mercy for I finally understand why and how Christian people behave in a certain sense. ==
## Yes, poor gospel ministry, unfaithful gospel ministry will produce inferior and defective conversion and changes in doctrines and practices. The gospel ministry/preaching of the word is for the training and molding of God's children... that they may think and walk as God's children here on earth.
In life, bad parenting produces children with many health problems and character defects. Domineering parenting also produces children with warped personality. Health problems and character defects, etc - even the worst kind, do not in any way diminish their true humanity... they are no less man than the healthiest and the most well-mannered man. But to be in poor health and bad character are GRIEVOUS AFFLICTIONS, affecting the wellbeing and the usefulness of the person.
Many true Christians are like spoiled brats... have never come under the godly oversight and faithful ministry of the word of God. The ministry of the word is for the training and instruction of babe that they may become MATURE/COMPLETE; see Eph 4:12ff.
== b) Perseverance of the saints: Perseverance of the saints for His kingdom yet we can lose our faith on the effect of sins. Fruitless and useless in this life. "Making our election and salvation sure" now carry a new meaning and the Christian has to make every effort to persevere in this life for the sake of His name.
## Let me say briefly... for a fuller account, read Pruning pp 198ff.
Each elect whom God has effectually called into the state of grace and salvation will immutably PERSEVERE (i.e. REMAINS) in that SAME STATE of grace and salvation unto eternity. No one can remove them out of that state of grace and salvation. Nothing can undo the IMMUTABLE work God has done in bringing an elect into that state of grace and salvation.
Read again Romans 8:29-30, " For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
Christ said many times... He shall not lose even one of all that the Father has given to him. Every one effectually called shall immutably REMAIN (PERSEVERE) in the state of grace and salvation, and enter into eternal glory.
God ALONE, by His own power and free grace, has brought each elect INTO the state of grace and salvation, and that work is immutable. NONE and NOTHING can or will remove any of God's children OUT of that state of grace and salvation.
There are a 1000 and one things that will cause the children of God to become unbelieving and to fall into sins and fruitlessness. If this is not true, then all those warnings and commands in the Scriptures become redundant and meaningless.
Perseverance (remaining) in the state of grace and salvation (in the SAVED STATE) - by virtue of the immutable and effectual call of God - is a biblical teaching. It is the immutable effect of the effectual call of God. The RBs have perverted this teaching and say that "perseverance means God's children will surely persevere in a life of faith and holy living, otherwise they are not even God's children, to begin with!" God DOES NOT promise anyone to keep him in a LIFE of faith and holy living. That is something a child of God MUST WORK OUT for himself by the grace of God working in him. If he is careless and negligent, unbelieving and disobedient, he shall make a shipwreck of his faith... suffer much chastisement and pains, and he may even die prematurely in this life. Read 1Cor 11:30.
The RBs would say that those who do not persevere in a LIFE of faith and holy living ARE NEVER BORN AGAIN, they are never God's children. They say this because they have perverted the doctrine of perseverance, i.e. from God keeping us in the state of grace and salvation to that of God keeping us in a life of faith and holy living. Along with such thinking, if God indeed keeps each elect in a life of faith and holy living, then their conclusion that if anyone does not live a life of faith and holy living, he can't possibly be a child of God, is consistent. On this reasoning, Lot and Solomon must be in hell today - they certainly DID NOT persevere in a life of faith and holy living. Lot and Solomon certainly did persevere (REMAIN) in the STATE of grace and salvation - God preserves them in that state of grace and salvation. They are in heaven because God perseveres to preserve them in the state of salvation. However, as they messed up their lives with unbelief and disobedience, they suffered tremendously in this life.
I am glad you are wrestling with the same issue. We are traveling along the same path of learning the truth of God.
your brother and servant in Christ,
sing
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July 30, 2007 9:50:40 AM GMT+07:00
Dear Brother,
I was just finishing this post when you called just now.
== We came away from worship service disturbed that the preacher could preach on 1Cor 15:35 -58 on the subject of the glorified body as the result of resurrection secured for us by Christ. He could not even utter that those could come to this position were because of the regeneration done by God. Rather, he mentioned one could receive it by faith in Christ and expecting the congregation to understand what is faith. ==
## Many preachers wearing 'reformed badges' are more man-centred and Arminian than they realized. They are OBSESSED with what man must do to get ETERNAL salvation. They have no time for God's free grace in saving His own people through His foreknowledge (no, I don't mean prescience), predestination, effectual call, justification, and glorification - all free and sovereign acts of God.
If [HEGhee] and his group are not careful, he will become a full-blown Arminian before he knew it... if he continues to oppose the free grace of the Scriptures, he will have to move further away from free grace and would land in the stinking Arminian swamp. To an Arminian, a spiritually dead man can believe in order to receive eternal life. Ghee is not far from that FICTION/FABLE.
Often, it is what a man does not affirm that betrays his gross error and heresy.
The grace of faith is the work/fruit of the Holy Spirit dwelling in a child of God, i.e. an elect whom God has effectually called to grace and salvation - justified, regenerated and adopted, and given the Spirit of adoption in dwell within. This indwelling Spirit works graces in the child of God.
If resurrection to eternal glory is by faith in Christ, then NOT all elect shall attain to eternal glory; it is plain that some elect is not capable of faith. But EACH and EVERY elect shall attain eternal glory, regardless whether in life they were able to be called to faith through the gospel call during their lifetime on earth.
Read again Romans 8:29-30. This is actually a very crucial passage of Scriptures that summarizes and affirms and demands free and sovereign grace "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
Glorification is NOT CONDITIONED on any act of cooperation/aid/assistance man - not his believing, his good works, his perseverance in faith and holy living. These graces are evidence of our salvation by God's free and sovereign grace.
your brother and servant of Christ,
sing
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