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A brother visited a church and was given a doctrinal statement.
He forwarded it to me and asked for my opinion.
Here are some comments
Date: June 30, 2007 2:58:08 PM GMT+07:00
Dear Brother,
=snip=
We have to be careful when we read a doctrinal statement. Often similar sounding words have very different meaning to different people. As it is, most doctrinal statements are so broad and SO VAGUE that most could agree to it. However, I can assure you that when you read and inquire a little further, there would be much you could not agree.
You are familiar with the doctrinal statement of Sungai Dua Church, it is the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. You may be surprised by this statement - because all those Reformed Baptist Churches also claim to hold to the same doctrinal statement, and yet we have great differences. Let me give you a brief explanation for it.
Reformed Baptists are a NEW breed of believers that arose in the 1960's. Yes, I also lament at the sad state of the RB churches... even though I am no longer a reformed baptist. By our Lord's grace and mercy, I have moved further back, and closer to where our true spiritual forefathers were - the particular Baptists of the 17th century and the Scriptures. The reformed baptists were Arminians before the 1960's who begun to realize their history and spiritual roots, and began at reforming their Arminian doctrines - thus 'reformed' baptists. However they NEVER quite returned to where their true forefathers where. The reformed baptists continue to carry lots of their Arminian baggage with them. Yet they think they have arrived and possessed the truth!
There are particular baptists known by various names who have held fast to this day the faith summarized by the early particular baptists in the 1689 CoF and who are never part of the reformed Baptist phenomenon that arose ONLY in the 1960's. The Baptists who reformed themselves from Arminianism who were mainly influenced by the reformed Presbyterians. These baptists have a strange love for the reformed Presbyterians. They know not about the giants among their particular baptists forefathers.
For a VERY good example of this great difference, you just need to read on justification - chapter 11 of the 1689 CoF. Paragraph 1 states as plain as the noonday sun that justification before God is BOTH WITHOUT FAITH and BEFORE FAITH - because the condemned dead sinners are NOT capable of faith. But ALL reformed baptists INSIST justification before God is CONDITIONED upon their faith. Go and read it yourself; read it real slow.
So, you see, those same words can be read and construe to mean vastly different things - many read the 1689 CoF through their Arminian glasses...
It is so clear and plain that ONLY a justified regenerated and adopted child of God is capable of believing.
It is clear that faith, believing in Jesus Christ, is the INSTRUMENT or MEANS to show, certify, to evidence, to make manifest, to demonstrate, to declare, etc. the justified state of the believer.
It is like the heart beats and breath are the MEANS to show, certify, to evidence, to make manifest, to demonstrate, to declare.... etc. that the person HAS LIFE... and most certainly NOT - NOT - NOT in order to have life.
All the so-called RB churches in Malaysia (not sure for those pastored by Poh ) INSISTS that you believe IN ORDER to have eternal life - very much like arminian Pastor Toh. Scriptures say, you believe BECAUSE you have be given eternal life. That is salvation by grace, pure and unadulterated.
That's all for now. Feel free to ask anything you have in your mind about the doctrinal beliefs of Sungai Dua Church. I am worry when people don't ask... and so very happy when you ask. Keep asking... I am at your service to explain the Scriptures, as the Lord has taught me. I still have much to learn.
I remain your brother and servant in Christ,
sing
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July 2, 2007 1:28:12 PM GMT+07:00
Dear Brother,
Please see some comments indicated ## on the various sections of the doctrinal statement. Please be very patient, and read carefully and slowly - together with you dear wifey. You would learn some old old truth of the Holy Scriptures. Please feel free to inquire further.
I remain your brother and servant in Christ
sing
Section A - THE SCRIPTURES
We believe in the Scriptures of the Old and the New Testaments alone as verbally, plenarily inspired of God, without error in the original writings and that they are our only authority in faith and practice. (II Peter 1:21; II Timothy 3:16-17).
## Every one claims this. So, it is a good beginning.
However there is a GLARING deficiency in this doctrinal statement that betrays its essential Arminian nature of this church's belief.
Often, more is known about a church through what is NOT stated in the doctrinal standard. Most, if not all churches that TRULY and correctly believe in salvation by free and sovereign grace would have a statement on the election. Election is the FOUNDATIONAL truth to all the manifolds truth on salvation be free grace. When this FOUNDATIONAL truth and its necessary implications are omitted, the gospel of salvation by grace is essential denied and repudiated. Another gospel is substituted.
Here are two examples from two different unrelated particular baptist churches that hold to the biblical doctrine of salvation by God's free grace:
Example 1: Church of Greenville
III. We believe that, before the world began, God did elect a certain number of sinners unto everlasting salvation, whom He did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, of His own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of His will; and that, in pursuance of this gracious design, he did contrive and make a covenant of grace and peace with His Son Jesus Christ, on behalf of those persons, wherein the Savior was appointed to reconcile them to God in redeeming, justifying, and sanctifying them by His blood and righteousness; and all spiritual blessings provided for them through the Lord Jesus Christ alone; and also that their persons, with all their grace and glory, were put into the hands of Christ, and made His care and charge.
Example 2: Mt Zion PBC
3. We believe in the everlasting and unchangeable love of God (Jer. 31:3) and that before the foundation of the world the Father did elect a certain number of the human race unto everlasting salvation whom He did predestinate unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will (Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:2-11; 1 Thes. 5:9; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 John 3:1; 1 Peter 1:2, 2:9) and we believe that in fulfilling this gracious design He did make a covenant of Grace and peace with the Son and with the Holy Ghost on behalf of those persons thus chosen (John 1:17) and that in this covenant the Son was appointed a Saviour and all spiritual blessings provided for the elect, and also that their persons with all the grace and glory designed for them were put into the hands of the Son as their Covenant Head and made His care and charge (Ps. 111:8,9; Isa. 54:10, 55:3; John 6:37, 17:2; Acts 4:12; Rom. 8:29,30; Eph. 2:13; Heb. 2:13; 6:17,18; 8:8-13).
Section C - JESUS CHRIST
2. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, as a substitutionary sacrifice and that all who receive Him are justified on the ground of His shed blood (I Corinthians 15:3-4; II Corinthians 5:21; Romans 3:21-26).
## For whom did Jesus die? For whom was He a substitute in His life and death? Which is logically and chronologically first: justification (the removal of the condemnation of death, along with regeneration and adoption) or receiving Christ (repentance and faith)?
All Arminians and many Reformed Baptists say - receive first, follows by justification. The question is, how is an unjustified person (i.e. one still under the condemnation of death, and dead in sin) is able to receive Jesus Christ?
The Bible declares, and the true Particular Baptists have always believed; and as summarised in the 1689 CoF: justification first, then the believing. Justification is the act of God in removing the condemnation of death, and declaring a person not guilty by righteous, through the application of the righteousness of Christ to an elect personally. With the removal of this condemnation by God the Father through the merits of Christ, God the Holy Spirit regenerates a justified elect. This justified regenerated elect is adopted by God, and is bestowed with the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell in him. It is this indwelling Holy Spirit who works the graces of faith and repentance which enables a child of God to receive Jesus Christ. All these three acts - justification, regeneration and adoption - are logically distinct, but chronologically (time wise) simultaneous. It is the effectual call to eternal life. Effectual call to eternal life requires justification (to undo condemnation), regeneration (to undo death) and adoption (to undo alienation).
The Scriptures declares again and again - 'The just (justified ones) shall live by faith.' So many twist and pervert this glorious truth into, 'The condemned ( and dead) by faith shall be justified and live."
Greenville Church states this:
VI. We believe that eternal redemption which Christ has obtained, by the shedding of His blood, is special and particular, that is to say, that it was only intentionally designed for the elect of God, and sheep of Christ, who only share the special and peculiar blessings of it. http://www.letgodbetrue.com/welcome/articles.php#salvation-eternal
Mt Zion states this: 6. We believe that the eternal redemption which Christ has obtained by the shedding of His blood is special and particular (Gal. 3:13; Heb. 9:12-15) – that is to say, that it was intentionally designed only for the Elect of God, the sheep of Christ, who therefore alone share in the special and peculiar blessings thereof (Isa. 35:10; John 10:15; Acts 13:48; 20:28; Rom 5:8-10; 8:33, 34; 9:13, 15, 16).
3. We believe in the resurrection of the crucified body of our Lord Jesus Christ; in His bodily ascension into heaven; and in His present life there for us as High Priest and Intercessor (Matthew 28:5, 6; Acts 1:9; Hebrews 7:25-26).
4. We believe in "that blessed hope" - the personal, visible, pretribulational, premillennial and imminent return of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ (I John 3:2-3; I Thessalonians 4:14-17; I Corinthians 15:51-53; Titus 2:13).
## I would refrain from making any comment on pretribulational and premillennial stuff. Jonathan Crosby has a wonderful series on the subject.
Section D - HOLY SPIRIT
We believe in the Holy Spirit who is the third Person of the Trinity. We believe that among His ministries are included the following: the restraining of evil in the world to the measure of the divine will; the convicting of the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgement; the regeneration of all believers; the indwelling of all who are saved, and the continued filling for power, teaching and service of all among the saved who are yielded to Him (John 3:6; 16:7-11; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 4:30; 5:18; II Thessalonians 2:7; I John 2:20-27).
## What does 'the regeneration of all believers' mean? Does it mean that the Holy Spirit regenerates those who believe - i.e. the act of believing is the condition of regeneration by the Holy Spirit? Ho Eng Ghee and all his kind have INSISTED that a man believes IN ORDER to have eternal life, i.e. you believe IN ORDER to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Regeneration is the free and sovereign act of the Spirit of God in bestowing eternal life to the dead in trespasses and sin. But how could a person without eternal life, without being regenerated with eternal life capable of believing? What happens to the doctrine of total depravity??? Just another shibboleth to so many reformed folks.
The Scriptures repeatedly declares, 'Whoever believes has eternal life.' This is a statement declaring a plain and obvious fact; it is NOT a statement making a conditional offer. I hope you appreciate the difference.
It says, whoever believes DOES SO because he possesses eternal life. Eternal life is the cause of believing, believing is the effect and fruit and evidence of eternal life. So many, all Arminains and many reformed baptists included, insist that believing is the cause and condition to receive eternal life.
Benjamin Keach, a renowned Particular Baptist, declared that those who hold to such views are, and I quote his exact words, 'WOEFULLY BLIND.' These reformed Baptists are woefully blind. They don't believe what the Bible teaches, nor what the Particular Baptists believed and summarized in the 1689 CoF. They are really Arminians with a reformed badge tagged to their shirt pocket.
Section E - SALVATION
1. We believe that man was created in the image of God; that he sinned and thereby incurred not only physical death, but also spiritual death which is separation from God; and that all human beings are born with a sinful nature, and are sinners in thought, in word, and deed (Romans 5:12; Ephesians 2:1-6).
2. We believe that salvation is the gift of God brought to men by grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was shed on Calvary for the forgiveness of sins. Salvation is solely through faith in that shed blood and is not earned by any good works whatsoever. All those who so believe are regenerated and become sons of God (Ephesians 2:8-9; John 1:12; 3:5-7).
## Again, the cart is put before the horse, revealing the anti-biblical nature of their doctrine of salvation.
ONLY those regenerated and adopted are able to believe. Believing gives evidence and proof that they have been regenerated and adopted by God, and indwelled by the Spirit of God, working saving graces in them. Only the sons of God are capable of believing.
Salvation is by grace, and it is given and applied personally to me when I was dead in sin, and utterly incapable of any spiritual act, like hearing, understanding and believing and repenting. Hearing, understanding and believing and repenting are effects and fruits of the Spirit of God working in us.
3. We believe in the elect of God, once saved, are kept by God's power and are secure in Christ forever (John 10:27-30; Romans 8:31-39).
## How is one elected: from eternity by the free and sovereign grace of God, or in time through faith in Jesus Christ? When is the name of the elect written in the book of life... before the foundation of the world, or in time when one believes in Jesus Christ?
Section I - THE ORDINANCES
We believe that there are two church ordinances - baptism and the Lord's Supper; Baptism is the immersion of a believer in water and is properly called "believer's baptism." It sets forth in a beautiful and solemn way our identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection - to walk in "newness of life." Baptism is a prerequisite to church membership. The Lord's Supper is the commemoration of the Lord's death until He comes and of our continual fellowship with Him, and should be preceded by careful self-examination (Acts 8:36-39; Romans 6:3-5; I Corinthians 11:23-32).
## It is biblical to REPEAT in a beautiful and solemn way our identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection - to walk in "newness of life"? Does the Lord permit this?
Section K LAST THINGS
We believe in the imminent return of Christ to take away those that are in Christ. Following this shall be a period of tribulation upon all the earth. At the end of this time of tribulation Jesus Christ shall come back to earth in power and glory with His saints, to establish the promised Davidic kingdom. He shall reign for one thousand years, during which time peace and righteousness will cover the earth, Satan shall be bound, and Israel shall be established in her land. At the end of this glorious reign, Satan shall lead a rebellion against Christ, but shall be forever banished to the Lake of fire. The wicked dead shall be judged at the great white throne, and shall be condemned to everlasting conscious punishment in hell. The righteous shall enjoy the eternal conscious blessedness of presence with the Lord (John 14:3; Matthew 24:21; Revelation 19:11-16; 20:1-15; Ezekiel 39:25-29; I Thessalonians 4:17).
## The part of premillennialism is a load of contradicting rubbish - not trying to be rude, but stating a bare fact plainly.
- IF Christ return to take away those who are in Christ, THEN there would be no more believers on earth during the period of tribulation upon all the earth... THEN all the teaching of Christ and His apostles to the believers to persevere and endure during the period of tribulation become nonsensical. Let God be true but every man a liar!!!
- Davidic kingdom was ALREADY firmly established when Christ, the son of David, came... Acts 2 states this fact so plainly. The Davidic kingdom prophesied in the OT is fulfilled by Christ's coming to set up His eternal and spiritual kingdom. An earthly Davidic kingdom - however grand - has no part in Christ's redemptive purpose. "My kingdom IS not of this world." Period. Any who proposes any earthly kingdom in the purpose of Christ is nothing but a liar.
- The 1000 years (symbolic of a definite but long period) reign began with the establishment of the Dividic kingdom by Christ at His first coming more than 2000 years ago. The 1000 years period will close with Christ's second coming, followed by the general resurrection and the day of final judgement, and the eternal state of blessed for the redeemed.
- Satan is already bound at the beginning of the 1000 years reign of Christ. That's why the gospel has gone to all the nations. Before that the gospel light was confined chiefly to the theocratic nation of Israel. Many of God's children outside of Israel remains in gospel darkness.
- The theocratic nation of Israel has served its appointed purpose in the working out of the redemptive purpose of God, and has been completely abolished, without the slightest hint of it being revived!
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June 30, 2007 1:02:20 PM GMT+07:00
Dear Brother,
I take liberty to make some comments in the elder's reply to you. Scroll down to read.
He said: Membership- only believers in total agreement with the doctrine of the church and submitting to the oversight of the church. How about younger believers who are not capable of grasping the deeper doctrine of the bible and church as yet?
## This is not only practically NOT possible, but also anti-scriptural.
- It is not realistic because 'total agreement' presupposes not only a great deal of knowledge but also consent. And all believers begins as babes [born by the sovereign and free grace of God when dead in sins] with very little knowledge when they were baptized and received into membership of a NT local church.
What happen when along the way, when a good member having learned more fully from the Scriptures, conscientiously begin to disagree with the church on a particular doctrine - say particular redemption? He is no longer in total agreement with the doctrine of the church. If this principle is practiced consistently, the church should exclude this member who is no longer in 'total agreement' with the doctrine of the church.
Even Apollos - eloquent and mighty in the Scriptures and fervent in the Spirit (Acts 18:24ff) needed to be taught the way of God more perfectly.
It is anti-scriptural man-made shackle to yoke the conscience of the saint. Our conscience is subject to the word of God alone. Apostle Paul said to the Philippians, "... and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you"
He said: Answer: According to Matthew 28:19-20, our responsibilities are
(1) to preach the Gospel so that people can get saved,
## Brother, 'To preach the gospel so that people can get saved IS A GREAT OLD HERESY of Arminianism.
Only the saved [therefore ALREADY justified, regenerated and adopted by God's free grace] are able to hear and believe the gospel. The preaching of the gospel is to nourish them that are ALREADY SAVED by God's free and sovereign grace - that they may the truth of their salvation by grace, that they may be instructed in sound doctrine, and to live godly, righteously and soberly (Titus 2:12ff.)
Mt 28:19-20 DOES NOT say 'Go preach the gospel so that people can get saved.' That's a popular lie from the pit of hell. No apology for the strong words.
It DOES SAY, 'Go... teach... baptize...' That is, 'Go and make disciples.'
The question is - out of whom disciples can be made through preaching the gospel?
Those who are not saved by God (i.e. STILL condemned, dead in sin, and alienated) or those who are already saved by God (i.e. justified, regenerated and adopted)?
There are those who say that disciples can be made out of those people who are STILL condemned, dead in sin, and alienated
I believe the Scriptures is PLAIN that disciples can only be made out of the elect who are ALREADY justified, regenerated and adopted by God.
Please meditate upon this statement: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which ARE SAVED it is the power of God."
The preaching of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing, still dead in their sin, under the just condemnation and wrath of God. The gospel is never received by those whom God has not freely and sovereign justified, regenerated and adopted (and given the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell within to work the graces of faith and repentance.)
A person who believes when he hears the gospel GIVES EVIDENCE that he has been [PAST TENSE - i.e. SAVED before the preaching comes] freely and sovereign justified, regenerated and adopted (and given the gift of the Holy Spirit to dwell within to work the graces of faith and repentance.)
No, the elder preaches another gospel... the heresy of gospel regeneration. To him, no preaching of the gospel, no regeneration; no preaching of the gospel, no salvation. So, his salvation is NO LONGER by God's free grace. It is conditioned upon something preachers and the hearers must do. He has misrepresented the purpose and function of preaching the gospel.
(2) to baptize those who are saved, and
## To baptize those who believe in the gospel of salvation by God's free grace through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
Only those who ARE SAVED by God i- i.e. justified, regenerated, and adopted, bestowed with the Holy Spirit of adoption dwelling in them to work the grace of understanding, believing and repentance... THESE ARE SAVED [eternal sense] before they ever hear and believe the gospel.
In hearing and believing the gospel, baptized and added to a NT church, they shall be saved in the practical/temporal sense. For them to be instructed with the truth of their salvation by grace, and trained to live godly, righteously and soberly - they shall be saved from ignorance and ungodliness in this life.
God SAVED us with eternal salvation to enable us to work out our own temporal salvation by our obedience. God's act of saving us by grace ensures our eternal salvation. Our act of working out our salvation ensures our wellbeing and usefulness while journeying through this world to our eternal home.
Our eternal salvation is absolutely and entirely by God's free and sovereign grace.
All that man does contribute to his temporal salvation here in time.
(3) to teach them to observe all things. This is the normal growth of a Christian. Thus a person who got saved in our church needs not to know everything or the deeper doctrines in order to join our church. They will be taught after they join our church.
## Teaching them to observe all things commanded by Christ... not the church.
A person DOES NOT get saved in a church.
A person is always SAVED by God's free grace OUTSIDE the church, and the church is commanded to gather such INTO the church through the preaching of the gospel. The preaching of the gospel is the means appointed by God to gather His children (i.e. already justified, regenerated and adopted, and given the gift of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them).
Preaching the gospel is seeking the lost sheep... lost sheep that are living and not dead sheep... it is not turning goats into sheep. This elder obviously thinks so... to turn goats into sheep through his preaching. My preaching is to feed the sheep... Christ's sheep.
However, a person who comes from another church, I believe, it is fair to both the church as well as that individual that they agree upon some of the major doctrines.
## A person who comes from another church - if he is a believer in Jesus Christ - it is fair that the church receive him into membership if the person desires to unite with the church.
The policy should be - join and learn, and not, learn and then join.
b. Membership and Baptism- automatic for those who believed and seeking for baptism. Has baptised believers to undergo water baptism if they are in total agreement of the doctrinal stand and seeking membership?
## Why the double standard? Why total agreement for some, and bare minimum agreement for others? Is this biblical criteria, or man made yoke?
Answer: I believe your question is regarding a member from another church who wants to join our church. Does that person need to be baptized? Yes and No.
Yes, if he has not been biblically baptized (not by immersion) in his former church. If his former church does not have the same doctrinal position like our church, he needs to be baptized to join our church as well. For him to be accepted into our membership without baptism means we accept the doctrinal position of his former church.
## Immersion is not the only criteria!! Those mentioned in ACts 19 were obviously immersed yet their baptism were INVALID in the eyes of Apostle Paul, an apostle of Christ to the Gentiles.
The validity of baptism has primarily and chiefly to do with union and burial with Christ the Lord and Saviour. A baptism in the name of Christ - related to His person and His works - is valid. To reject it is an affront to Christ.
For him to be accepted into our membership without baptism means we accept the doctrinal position of his former church.
## This faulty reasoning is fallacious at its worse. It is like saying, for me to marry this woman means I accept everything else of the family she come from...
I remain your brother in servant in Christ,
sing
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