Mon Feb 5, 2007 11:48 pm
Hi all,
Mt 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
What is 'in all the world for a witness unto all nations' and what is the end'?
Mt 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost... Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Did the apostles fulfil this specific command to them - taught 'all nations'? Was Christ with the apostles to 'the end of the world' - i.e. accompanying them with signs and miracles to end of what world? To the end of which world??????? Jewish world or the world of mankind?
Mk 13:10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."
What is the extent of "all nations"? Is your notion of "all nation" a biblical notion"? What is the biblical notion? Let us see.
Lets hear what one apostle has said about gospel being preached to all nations... Thus saith the Scriptures:
Romans 1:5-6
"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ..."
Romans 16:26
" But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"
The epistle to the Romans was written in about AD 60. Was apostle speaking the truth or was he exaggerating?
Acts 2:5
"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."
Did Dr Luke exaggerated or there were devout Jews from 'every nation under heaven'? Is your idea of 'every nation under heaven' the same as the biblical writers? Was there a Jew from USA in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost???
Colossians 1:5-6
"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth..." Written probably around AD 64.
Did apostle exaggerated when he said, 'which is come unto you, as it is IN ALL THE WORLD' or was he speaking the truth under the inspiration of God? Did he include USA or Australia or Old Zealand?
Col 1:23
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..."
I believe the words of the apostle Paul. He spoke the truth. He did not exaggerate. In biblical term, the gospel "was preached to every creature which is under heaven" BEFORE AD 70. And in AD 70 came the complete end of the Jewish world with all its old covenant paraphernalia - just as prophesied , 'that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
I am convinced that those who disagree with the apostle Paul on that point are deceived and deluded on that particular point.
Mal 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."
Mt 3:10 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
just my sandy opinion,
sing
=======
Tue Feb 6, 2007 1:32 am
Dear bro. Sing,
70 AD was a monumental moment for national Israel. There is much prophecy that can be applied to this time period and to God's coming in judgment on that nation. But I am not a Preterist, and some prophecy is yet to be fulfilled regarding a future period of tribulation, the second coming of Jesus our Lord, and the millennium where Jesus will sit on the throne of David, ruling over the restored nation of Israel for a thousand years. Regarding 70 AD, I am a partial Preterist, and a Premillenialist.
Billy
=======
Tue Feb 6, 2007 5:08 am
Hi Sing,
So...who are apostles talking about when they say every creature under heaven?
Thanks
MM
=======
Tue Feb 6, 2007 8:37 am
Hi Sing,
Who are the "all nations?" mentioned in all those passages you quoted me. Have you ever heard of a figure of speech? Tell me who all these nations are...were the ones mentioned in Acts 2 every nationality on earth at the time? No...sooooo who are they? Did Jesus really mean for us to take the Gospel to every creature? (Mark's gospel). So who exactly are these people?
And just for the record you seem to have grown more strident in your disagreements with me. Now I am a branch that has departed from the vine and need to be burned???? Come on brother...if we can't discuss differing view on things w/o acting like the other guy is a heretic for not agreeing with us, I will go back into hibernation. Life is too short and Christ is too sweet to engage in hateful bickering over the net.
God bless,
MM
=======
Tue Feb 6, 2007 9:14 am
Mighty Mind,
Jesus said in Mat. 24:14 The gospel would be preached in all the world to all nations. That was not accomplished by A. D. 70. So that awaits a later fulfillment. (Which btw, can be accomplished in our generation by means of TV, Internet, etc.
I sure hope you don't end up disagreeing with the plain testimony of Scriptures.
TV and Internet came too late!!! As if God needs these things!
verse 30 of that chapter yet remains to be fulfilled. v 31 must still be in the future since all the elect have yet to be gathered from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other. v. 36 must still be in the future...it seems impossible to me that Christ did not know the day of the destruction of the Temple just about 30 years from his own earthly life.
Jesus DID SO PLAINLY STATE that "of that day and hour knoweth NO MAN, no, not the angels of heaven, , but the Father... He did not say 'but the Father and I.' If one's mind is made up, nothing is possible... even if the Lord Himself has stated it plain and simple. If Jesus did know of 'that hour and day,' he would have said to His disciples something like, "August 8, 8th hour." The point is, the great tribulation in AD 70 involved many months of 'slow death' through the military siege against the rebellious and crooked generation of Jews.
The gathering of the elect from the four winds lies in the FUTURE of AD 70... and it is still going until the Lord return. The angels - the sent ones - are still gathering them... The Jewish world may end... the redemptive purpose of God goes on.
Someone wrote about verse 31:
In the same context and without a break in the monologue Jesus calls his coming in Mt. 25 the marriage of the Lamb. I doubt seriously if the destruction of the temple could be called the same thing as the marriage of the Lamb.
Marriage supper of the Lamb??????? It is a parable addressed to the believing disciples to be vigilant... in the same context of the warning against the coming doom of the Jewish nation... that they must not be caught unaware and perish under the Gentile destroyers.
The whole of Matt 24 and 25:1-30, with the destruction of Israel in mind... was addressed specifically to the disciples...
Matt 25:31 speaks of the second coming of Christ in plain and non-apocalyptic language... SO VASTLY DIFFERENT from His coming to destroy the wicked and untoward generation of Jews. (Acts 2:40 "Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
just some sandy opinions,
sing
=======
Tue Feb 6, 2007 9:26 am
Howdy Sing,
This reminds me of the "all" debates that sometimes get started between Calvinist and others. It has to do with the context of the passage.
Figures of speech are often used in Scripture. We must bring an understanding of them and of the point the author was making when these various statements were made.
Bet this is not the last of this. :-)
A forgiven sinner,
Brainy Giant
========
Wed Feb 7, 2007 9:14 am
Ho Mighty Mind,
> So...who are apostles talking about when they say every creature under heaven? <
Your question should be directed to Paul. Whatever, do you believe these words of Paul. Did he speak truth or was he telling lies?
Col 1:23
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..."
Which WAS preached [past tense] TO EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN.
sing
========
Wed Feb 7, 2007 9:15 am
Brother Bill,
I don't know what I am... probably an amillican.
What's a preterist?
I thought Christ was already on the throne of David even on the day of Pentecost. That's what I gather from Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost.
You want an earthly throne for Christ? I am surprise. Christ Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world. The Jews wanted and expected an earthly kingdom... when there was none, they murdered Christ.
sing
=======
Wed Feb 7, 2007 9:33 am
Ho Mighty Mind,
> Who are the "al nations?" mentioned in all those passages you quoted me. Have you ever heard of a figure of speech? Tell me who all these nations are...were the ones mentioned in Acts 2 every nationality on earth at the time? No...sooooo who are they? Did Jesus really mean for us to take the Gospel to every creature? (Mark's gospel). So who exactly are these people? <
Figure of speech must be applied to both sides of the equation... The 'every creature' in Mark matched with 'every creature' from Paul's statement in Col 1:23. Whoever they are, they would be CO-EXTENSIVE.
Thanks.
I am blunt but I am not rude.
sing
========
Wed Feb 7, 2007 11:37 am
Dear Sing, Preterism is a view that Bible prophecy was fulfilled by 70 AD. I would hold that some prophecy was fulfilled then, with some as yet to come to pass.
Billy
=======
Wed Feb 7, 2007 12.05pm
Dear Billy,
Thanks. What do you call those who believe that some Bible prophecy were fulfilled, and some are going to be fulfilled - like the falling away in perilous times (2Tim 3), and the return of Jesus Christ at the end of time?
sing
=======
