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| Many insist that "Friend..." is merely the Lord's sarcastic way of addressing the despicable betrayer! The same people also dismiss Judas' repentance (Mt 27:3-5) as a cheapskate, fake, and worthless repentance since it's not repentance unto good works but a repentance unto suicide. |
Jesus
called him, "Friend..."
Billy posted
Mat 26:47-50 KJT
47
¶ And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a
great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of
the people.
48
Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss,
that same is he: hold him fast.
49
And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
50
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and
laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
=========
39
comments
Stevie
I
know many different views on this subject, but I always stop to think... Jesus
called him, Friend.
Bensmith
Stevie, Now that you point it out, "Wow", when was that "added"?
We, I, so often read over words in familiar passages of scripture. Thank you. π
Billy
Stevie:
Yes, He did; and it wasn't just to fulfill the Scripture that He received
wounds at the hand of His friend. In fact, I believe both OT and NT scripture
strengthen that the betrayer was one of His.
Sing F Lau
Stevie
John
15 KJT—
13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his
friends.
15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord
doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my
Father I have made known unto you.
I was wondering if Judas was present when these wonderful words were spoken?
(p/s I searched later: Judas had left before - cp John 13:30 - Jesus spoke these words...)
Billy
Sing
F Lau- Good question. I will examine
that.
Billy
Bro. Sing, I see no reason to believe that Judas or any other of the
twelve were absent when Jesus called them all friends in John 15. It is even
more interesting to think that the Lord calling Judas friend in the Garden
scene should have struck a nerve if Judas remembered the scene from John 15.
Stevie
Billy
- Amen and Amen! I do believe He is one of the Lord's.
Stevie
But
even if Judas had already left, it remains the same... you can take John 15
passages all the way to the Garden of Gethsemane and beyond. They still are
beautiful truth. Jesus laid down His life for His friends and He called Judas,
"Friend".
Billy
Stevie
- Amen!
Sing F Lau
Billy
- It was only after I have understood the distinction between eternal salvation
and temporal salvation that my little mind was able to move beyond the
ingrained tradition and believe the plain statements of the Scriptures. And I'm
called a heretic by not a few folks who firmly believe that Judas' betrayal was
deserving of the lake of fire.
Billy
Sing
F Lau - I fear that those folk, and I know many as well, are willing to accept
what religious leaders have taught with prejudice, rather than search the
scriptures logically.
Stevie
Sing
F Lau - I also encounter that same attitude that Judas deserves the lake of
fire.... But truth be known, we all deserve it. Grace is the wonderful blessing
bestowed upon all who are unworthy. I'm afraid I have been guilty of betraying
my Lord for much less than 30 pieces of silver. God bless you. I always enjoy
reading your comments and thoughts.
Regie
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a
devil?
Ac
1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas
by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Bensmith
And
just think, we, whom He went to the cross for, are His friends.
Sing F Lau
Regie
John
6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a
devil?
------
This
stirs a few questions:
- Did
Jesus knowingly choose a devil to be one of the 12 Apostles?
- In
what sense was Judas a devil that the other 11 were not?
Thanks.
Stevie
Sing
F Lau - And why would Jesus call that one to be His friend, which means
"comrade"
Is
Jesus a comrade with the devil? No way! But He called Judas, friend, or
comrade.
Sing
F Lau
I
just look at the word "devil" - diabolos...
-------
G1228
i.
prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
- a
calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
ii.
metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act
the part of the devil or to side with him.
-------
Yes,
even a friend can be a devil in the second sense above.
O
the graciousness and magnanimity of Christ towards lousy friends like me.
Billy
Sing
F Lau Amen and AMEN!
Cheery
Stevie
- He also called him 'the son of Perdition'
John
17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that
thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Not
my bisness, tho. That's betwixt Judas and GOD.
Stevie
Cherey
- Jesus also looked at Peter and said, "Get thee behind me Satan"
I
heard an old wonderful preacher say this...
If
Judas is in heaven, I will say "Howdy brother"
If
he isn't, I won't miss him.
I
have my thoughts, but they are my thoughts. I don't argue, but I have
scriptures that I use
Sing F Lau
Cheery
- In what sense is Judas a son of perdition?
Perdition
is apΕleia - G684... the same word is used in many passages describing the
temporal destruction of God's people.
Matthew 7
13 Enter
ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that
leadeth to destruction, (G684) and many there be which go in thereat:
2Peter 2
1 But
there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false
teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable (G684) heresies, even
denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
(G684)
Eatone
I was not present at John 15, yet I possess the hope of being called friend.
Billy
Eatone - Amen!
Sing F Lau
I
was just preempting an objection, "O Judas wasn't there, so those words cannot
apply to him." ππ
Eatone
I
could also add I know a portion of a devil I have been and I am not yet stopped
groaning.
Sing
F Lau
This
passage crossed my mind.
John
17:12 "While
I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest
me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the
scripture might be fulfilled.
Please
help me with some questions:
1. Was the one that is lost referring to Judas?
2.
Is Judas one among them whom God gave to Christ?
-
If yes, in what sense was he given to Christ?
-
If yes, in what sense was he lost?
-
If yes, in what sense is Judas the son of perdition?
-
Was Judas lost because Christ was powerless to keep him?
-
Or was Judas lost because Christ permitted it in order that the Scriptures
might be fulfilled?
Thank
you in advance for your kindness. Please be good sounding boards.
Brother
Billy, thank you for the privilege to learn here.
Billy
Bro. Sing, I will answer what I believe. The Son of perdition Jesus
refers to while praying in John 17 is not a specific person, but is instead the
spirit of the man of sin - that fallen man that resulted from the original sin of
Adam. When the Holy Spirit regenerates one of His elect, He does not renovate
that spirit of the man of sin (who by that nature wishes to be as God, in place of God) but creates anew the spirit of righteousness, making that one a
new creature.
It
is the new creature who is redeemed. The old, fallen, sinful, creature - the
son of perdition - is never redeemed.
Judas was lost in a temporal sense. I will leave his eternal state in God's hands. I personally believe logic demands that Christ would not use a non-elect person to betray him.
Eatone
The
only individual that can ever be lost is an elect child of God. No other is or
can be lost
Rain
I
know what you're saying but I'll bet you will have some saying π€.
Eatone
If
I am not a stranger here below I have no city or country to look for.
Cheery
Well,
according to Suzanne Sugarbaker, "No matter where you go, there you
are."
Eatone
Since
I learned the distinction between eternal life and the temporal experience of that
life, my concern shifted from doubting who outside of myself may have eternal
life. Now my focus is to be a helper of their joy and to examine myself rather
than others for the eternal
Eatone
Cheery
- And I've never been anywhere I didn't go
John
Love
the message π ❤️ π
Eatone
The
member of the Corinthian church Paul told them to separate from themselves was
for the purpose of temporal destruction in the flesh; not even in so-called
ex-communication did the Spirit direct the apostle to declare that brother
eternally condemned. It is man/men who eternally condemn anyone who does not jot
their tittles. I've been there and done it, it is a result of absolutism. If I
am to remain there having come to the knowledge of the truth, I see no reason
to have converted from that fatalistic position. God knows those that are his
and whether they are false as well. I absolutely have no interest in going
further in judgment than what scripture allows for gospel fellowship. That is
where I am at. I won't argue the point either, but, if I am attacked for the
love of the tradition of men, I also will not run.
Eatone
These
examples were given to us for our instruction, not that we can impose upon the
glory of God in determining who is and is not His.
Rogue
I
think I will try to limit my comments further to this: Of all the commentators
I have looked at thus far, none of them have agreed that Judas was a child of
God.
Billy
Rouge - Well, that settles it then. As a dear old friend used to say of such things,
"Six million Frenchmen couldn't be wrong!" I have found that most old
commentators would not venture outside of what others of their era said about
any subject, even to using almost exactly the same phrases and concepts in
their opinions.
Sing
F Lau
Billy
- They were wise enough to play it safe... but not to divide it right!
Much
like every reformed man repeats "justification before God by faith in
Christ."
When I did not toe the "standard reformed" line, I was branded a heretic and disfellowshipped. Pressure to conform stifles the freedom of inquiry and learning WHAT the Scriptures say!
