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Many are in fellowship with the Reformers, Few are in fellowship with the Apostles! |
October 4, 2011
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/2076340623599
A Calvinist stated magisterially:
"To say that God regenerates man before
belief and to say God works without any help from man is not calvinism but more
like hyper-calvinism. God ordains the means said Calvin. Look at the Bible. God
does not need man but He chose to use man in His plan of redemption. Why?
"
======
I commented:
What confused gibberish! Can you tell us why?
Brendon Ward
Who wrote that? We are regenerated through
the operation of the Holy Spirit and the implanted Word as preached/heard/read
through the gospel.
Sing F Lau
I copied that from Gregory Trowse wall... Go and read it... it is so sad. So much
confusion.
Sing F Lau
O yes, look at the Bible... and not Calvin
and his confused followers <LOL>
1. "God does not need man..." Amen and amen.
- When God purposed eternal redemption for
the elect, He did it without their help.
- When Christ secured that eternal redemption
for His elect, He did it without their help whatsoever.
- When the Holy Spirit applied that eternal
redemption to each elect, He did it without their help.
- So, the Triune God purposed, accomplished,
and applied that eternal redemption to the elect without needing them to do
anything. There is no place for man in the purposing, accomplishment and
application of eternal redemption for His elect.
No man helps God in His act of electing to
save many out of the fallen race of Adam.
No man helps God in His act of predestinating
the elect to eternal glory... NONE... ZILCH
No man helps God in His work of effectually
calling an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and
eternal life... NONE... ZILCH!
Did any man help God in any of the activity stated here - Romans 8:
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did
predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the
firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he
also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified,
them he also glorified.
I DID NOT ask, 'Does God use men to proclaim what He HAS DONE?'
The means ordained for proclaiming what God
HAS DONE is not the same as the means used by God in accomplishing what He has
done.
If you are not able to make this distinction, you have not begun to rightly divide the word of truth.
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Antonio Maglinte
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of
him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Rom.9:16
Sing F Lau
"To say that God regenerates man before
belief... is not calvinism but more like hyper-calvinism."
======
So, what is the alternative? Is it God
regenerates AFTER belief? or may be AT the moment of belief? So whether AT or
AFTER, the statement declares that the act of believing is LOGICALLY prior to
regeneration. Is that a fair conclusion?
In his native state of sin and death, he is utterly unable to perform any act to bring himself to God.
Christ declares this basic and fundamental
fact plainly: John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily,
verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom
of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto
thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
Christ declares that except a man in his
native state of sin and death be born again, he CANNOT - CANNOT - CANNOT even
see, nor much less enter the kingdom of God...
Both seeing and entering are activities of life... and seeing the kingdom of God and entering the kingdom of God are spiritual activities... and spiritual life must precede any spiritual activities!
Both Calvinists (represented by the
statements made above) as well as Arminians insist otherwise - activities of
life first, then get life!
By their definition, the Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God teaches hyper-calvinism.
The simple truth that life must precede the any activity of that life and its implications are not recognized or admitted by such is already a grievous tragedy!
Antonio Maglinte
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou
hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it
goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:8
Sing F Lau
"God does not need man but He chose to
use man in His plan of redemption. Why? As God"
======
This is a most confused statement there is.
And the elitist Calvinist brethren will
continue to remain in confusion... always messing up the sovereignty of God and
responsibility of men in redemption because they are ignorant of the
distinction between eternal salvation of His elect (sinners dead in trespasses
and sins) by the free and sovereign grace of God, and the temporal salvation
for His people conditioned upon their responsibility to use the means He has
ordained.
There is an eternal redemption that God has purposed, accomplished, and applied to each elect, fitting them for eternal glory.
There is a temporal salvation that God has commanded that His children must work out for themselves through the means appointed towards that end. His children are held responsible to work out their own salvation through the means appointed for them.
In the decree, execution, and application of eternal redemption, the Triune God did it all by Himself... without the need of man.
But He appointed men to announce what He HAS DONE... that His redeemed may know the truth of their redemption, "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
God DID NOT USE man for the work of eternal
redemption.
God USES man for the proclamation of that finished work of redemption.
Sing F Lau
"...so is every one that is born of the
Spirit." John 3:8
======
So is EVERY ONE... without exception.
Calvinists CANNOT affirm this. They invent 'exception' - the normal way is
regeneration through the gospel preaching; the exceptional way is without
gospel preaching!
An error must invent more errors to cover up
the first error.
Only those they slander as 'hyper-calvinists'
hold the plain truth declared by our Lord Jesus Christ... 'regeneration WITHOUT
the gospel means.'
Richard Tilton
So what are you Sing? Partial 5 pointer or
what....please forgive just not understanding you correctly.
Sing F Lau
What is a 5 pointer?
What are the 5 points?
Richard Tilton
Come on Sing, you know what is meant by a 5
point Calvinist, are you or are you not, yes or no?
Sing F Lau
Richard, I am serious. That is why I ask!
Your question is a wee bit NAIVE. No offense intended! So, don't ask a vague
and nebulous Q like that! Simplistic. Different calvinists meant different
things by those 5 points! Many like to call themselves calvinists - very trendy
and scholarly.
5 points according to which calvinists'
understanding?
Do you and I have a COMMON understanding of the 5 points?
You see some calvinists foam from one side of
their mouth that they believe total depravity of man... and rant from the other
side of the same mouth that man, in his state of total depravity, is able to
believe in order to be regenerated. The quote at the head of this thread
above... is a case in point... and they insist that they are calvinists.
Many calvinists believe that effectual call is the gospel call blessed to the regeneration of dead sinners? Is that your understanding of that point?
Many calvinists believe that the perseverance
of that saints teaches that believers will persevere in a life of faith and
holiness. Is that your understanding of that point?
I care little what Calvin said.
Richard Tilton
Yea sorry I dove into this, just don't have
the time. I simply beleive God does it all period or we will do nothing. All of
grace period, like the wind moves and we have no control. God does it all, He
is the potter we are the clay. Grace to you!
Sing F Lau
No apology needed. You need to ask specific
questions. Vague questions are misleading!
Gregory Trowse
Sing has his own brand of Hyper-Calvinism and
he does not even care what Calvin taught. Go figure.
Gregory, there is no need to use label...
what is Calvinism to you? Some calvinists insist that regeneration precede
faith... but calvinist like you say 'regeneration precede faith' constitutes
hyper-calvinism. So which calvinists are right?
You have said, ""To say that God regenerates man before belief and to say God works without any help from man is not calvinism but more like hyper-calvinism. God ordains the means, said Calvin. Look at the Bible. God does not need man but He chose to use man in His plan of redemption. Why? "
Teach yourself - go to the Bible.
Following Calvin has confused his followers.
You don't need to be a calvinist to know that life must precede the activities of that life. Even a heathen drunkard Ossie can tell you that! - I know because I was in Sydney for well over 7 years <LOL>
Antonio Maglinte
Dear Brother Sing, Thank you so much for your plain, clear,
simple and understandable comparative explanation about the doctrine of Eternal
Salvation and Temporal Salvation. I have nothing to say, but; AMEN and AMEN.
May the Lord bless you richly is my prayer.
Your Small Servant in Christ,
Antonio
