 |
| Justification by faith alone - a popular lie hawked and pedalled as a gospel truth - by men like Mr R C Sproul. |
Exchanges took place here:
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02h3ASGuq8boEgzhtxoVY1UvsdE2MiKgPnGXRPKbKN6j9WhQ1XBMtys7KE5Q6Au3q9l
Justification by faith alone - a popular lie hawked and pedalled as a gospel truth - by men like Mr R C Sproul.
Justification
by faith alone is a plain lie because it is plainly contrary to the declaration
of Scriptures:
"Being
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ
Jesus."
The
justification of an unjustified man,
under the just condemnation of his sins, before God, is COMPLETELY APART from
his faith. A man's faith evidences and demonstrates his justified state.
Being
justified freely by His grace and being justified by faith (a believing act of man) are unbridgeably worlds apart. They are two different gospels. Remember
Paul's stern censure in Gal 1.
Think
about it; only a man whom God has justified (condemnation removed, and
regenerated) is capable of believing.
One
who is regenerated is ALREADY justified (i.e the condemnation of death ALREADY
removed by God's act of justification) unless one chooses to believe the lie
that an unjustified man (i.e. still under the condemnation of death) is
regenerated, and upon his believing he is justified.
Believing
in Jesus Christ enables a regenerated man to EXPERIENCE the blessedness of his
justified state, freely by God's grace, because his justification was based
solely upon the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Abraham's experience in Gen 15 is the CLASSIC example marshalled by Apostle Paul to demonstrate and vindicate this simple truth. Abraham in Gen 12-14 was ALREADY freely justified by God, unless you want to believe that he was still unjustified, i.e. still in his native state of condemnation and death. You are quite free to believe such nonsense.
===============
Ron
Warren
The
Apostle Paul writes in Romans 5:1 "Therefore, having been justified by
faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" again in
Romans 4 "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to
the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something
to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham
believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” ... I believe that
you are confusing Regeneration with Justification through faith. We are given
the new heart so that we trust in Christ for our Justification and not in
ourselves, for our righteousness in as “filthy rags” (Isa 64:6). We do not
boast in our faith, “ For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that
no one may boast.”
In the Ordo Solutus (order of salvation), Regeneration precedes faith and Justification. It is a chain of salvation that cannot be broken, the apostle writes in Romans 8:30, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." The scriptures refer to salvation in past, present and future tense, we have been saved (Regeneration & Justification), we are being saved (Sanctification) and will one day be saved in our (Glorification). This is what the theologians refer to as the “already but not yet.” I agree that when we are Justified, we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ, redeemed and adopted into the family of our Lord. However, it is like you are saying that we are Justified through Regeneration and not through faith. The Scripture say otherwise, “ But now apart [k]from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [l]who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all [m]have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a[n]propitiation [o]in His blood through faith” (Romans 3:21-25). Those who are Regenerated will be Justified through faith alone, by Christ alone, and to the Glory of God alone.
Sing
F Lau
Thanks,
Ron, for your comment.
You
are REGURGITATING standard reformed shibboleth.
How
do you propose to reconcile Rom 3:24 and Rom 5:1?
I
have dealt with all that extensively. Please don't be offended by what I say, I
DON'T intend any. I'm just plain honest. If you will just consider this simple
explanation, then you will rightly divide the word of truth...
The
Scriptures speak of DISTINCT aspects of justification.
-
Justification was decreed for all the elect in eternity
-
Justification was ACCOMPLISHED for all the elect at the cross.
- Justification
is APPLIED, FREELY by God's grace, to each elect in his native state of
condemnation and death (no faith of man involved here!)
-
Justification is EXPERIENCED through faith ALONE in the Lord Jesus Christ
Too many are muddled, they either REFUSE TO or are INCAPABLE OF rightly dividing the 3rd and the 4th aspect mentioned above.
Take
a look at this article:
The
Doctrine of Justification - as summarised in the 1689 CoF
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-doctrine-of-justification-as.html
Sing
F Lau
Ron
said, We
do not boast in our faith, “ For by grace you have been saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works,
so that no one may boast.”
------------------------
May
I suggest you read this short article to understand Eph 2:8-9 rightly? Thanks.
Time
to move on from the reformed shibboleths!
Saved
by grace through faith – whose, and what faith?
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
Mark
Thomas
Brother
Sing, I appreciate your strong Biblical, and Historic Baptist stance on the
doctrine of Justification. Those who seek truth would do well to examine your
instruction on this subject.
Sing
F Lau
Ron,
you quoted Rom 8:29-30.
May
I suggest you read this short article... your mind may be stirred to think a
bit. Thanks.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/09/some-plain-observations-from-romans-829.html
Sing
F Lau
Ron,
read this if you wish to understand the gospel of free grace.
This
will help you to rightly divide Rom 8:29-30.
Time
to move beyond reformed shibboleths!
The
gospel of free grace : Rom 8:29-30
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/07/gospel-of-free-grace.html
Ron
Warren
Therefore,
my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much
more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for
it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
This Scripture is referring to Sanctification as "working out your
salvation. Is Sanctification a necessary fruit of Regeneration and faith a la
James 2?
Sing
F Lau
Let's
not get distracted. We keep to justification, for now. Thanks.
Ron
Warren
No,
please answer the question. I think you may be Antinomian, which I pray is not
true.
Sing
F Lau
You
certainly do love throwing labels around. What's an antinomian? Honest
question.
We
will settle the question on justification first. If you can't get that right,
you won't understand sanctification right.
Ron
Warren
Ok,
your position is that we are Justified by grace without faith, which is
contrary to Rom 5:1. I agree that the elect will be Regenerated to belief in
Jesus Christ. However, your theology is very unorthodox and confusing. It's
seems that you see faith as work, so it can't be by grace. The Reformed
position is that we believe in a monergistic salvation in Regeneration. After a
person is regenerated, that person cooperates by exercising faith and trust.
But the first step is the work of God and of God alone.
The
reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and
in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can
no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life
than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.
Ante
Zivkovic
Dear
Ron, the downfall of reformed theology is regeneration before justification. That
is, someone is made alive but under condemnation of death. You can see that is
twisted. The reformed destroy the doctrine of regeneration and turn it into
prevenient grace. That is why the reformed are decisional justifiers.
Ron
Warren
The
London Confession is Reformed theology. It is Calvinistic. You quote the LC on
Justification as you position, which I don't have an issues with. And then say
that this is not Reformed or Calvinistic Confession. You guys are confused.
Your criticism on Reformed doctrine includes your criticism of the London
Confession.
Ron
Warren
Ok.
Now I get it you do not believe that Regeneration precedes Justification, here
again is the confusion to try and maintain monergism, you confuse Justification
with Regeneration. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44). The key phrase in
Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in
trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been
saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs.
It takes place 'when we were dead. This is not Justification. What doctrine is
"made alive" referring to?
Sing
F Lau
Ron,
you have your "reformed" position, but I'm showing you the biblical
position.
Ron,
you have your "justification by faith IN Christ", I'm endeavouring to
show you the biblical truth of " justification BY the faith of
Christ."
Have
you ever noticed and ponder on the unbridgeable gulf between the two?
My
position DOES NOT contradict Rom 5:1. You think so because you fail to
distinguish the distinct aspects of justification spoken of.
You
are just repeating the reformed shibboleth without considering the distinct
aspects of justification spoken of.
Ron
Warren
The
London Confession is the Reformed position which looks like you have deleted
the part you disagree with. Your answer to my question concerning Phil 2 and
James 2 will help me understand your position.
Sing
F Lau
Is
a man's act of believing a work?
Let
Christ Himself answer you:
John
6
28 Then
said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus
answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him
whom he hath sent.
Some
inquired what are the works God requires them do? Christ said, the work
requires by God for them to do is the working of believing in the Christ.
Believing is man's activity; it is his work. It is that basic.
Ron
Warren
"The
work of God that you may believe." This is consistent with my view of Eph
2:8-10. The work of God it says
Sing
F Lau
Your
view of Eph 2:8-10 is WRONG then.
At
least consider reading the link on this passage posted above. Read first, then
make further comment on this passage.
Sing
F Lau
The
London Confession is the position of the particular Baptists. And before you
accused me of deleting anything, you should just read what has been written.
Casting wild accusation will forfeit your privilege to be here.
Ron
Warren
The
London Confession is a Reformed Confession, do you deny this? The LC is is
based upon the WCF that I hold to as a Presbyterian.
Sing
F Lau
It
is based on WCF as far as some common truths are concerned, but much superior
because some serious errors were removed. Google my blog for the subject.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/
Ron
Warren
There
are no differences on the doctrine of Justification between the LC and the WCF.
Sing
F Lau
Are
you just guessing, or have you ACTUALLY studied both documents comparatively?
Sing
F Lau
Ron,
you wrote: The
reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and
in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can
no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life
than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.
---------------------
Good
reasoning. Now apply the exact same reasoning to the justification of an
UN-justified man.
A
man not yet justified by God is a man STILL in his native state of
condemnation, is he not? Did you get that figure out yet? And you and all your
reformed brothers and your cousin arminians believe so fervently that an
UN-justified man, still in his native state of condemnation and death is
capable of believing that he might be justified by God. That's your choice.
Ron
Warren
Again
a confusion of Regeneration and Justification. In Theology we make such
distinctions, and this is one if them. I will not write anymore until you
answer my questions. Especially concerning Phil 2 and James 2 as works being
the nessasary fruit of faith. I believe that you may have fallen into
Antinomianism. But I'm not certain.
Sing
F Lau
Faith
and works ARE BOTH fruits of salvation by God's free grace. Works of
righteousness ARE NOT fruit of faith.
Ron
Warren
Are
they necessary? Can one be Justified without being Sanctified?
Sing
F Lau
Are
they necessary for what?
Ron
Warren
A
necessary fruit of faith. Can one be Justified without being Sanctified?
Sing
F Lau
You
asked, "Are they necessary"?
What
are "they", and are they necessary for what?
Answering
my question will help me answer your question precisely. Thanks.
Ron
Warren
What
I looking for is a distinction but no separation between Justification and
Sanctification.
Sing
F Lau
Have
you considered that, biblically, there are several distinct aspects of
justification? And concerning sanctification, there is the
"definitive" sanctification, and there is on-going sanctification?
Tell
me which aspect of justification you are inquiring about, and which
sanctification is it related to.
Ron
Warren
I
understand definitive and progressive Sanctification. You still are not
answering my questions to deny Antinomianism. Good night.
Sing
F Lau
Again
a confusion of Regeneration and Justification. In Theology we make such
distinctions, and this is one of them.
--------+---------
Regeneration
and justification are SOOOOOOOO distinct that it takes a fool to confuse them.
Justification
is God's free and gracious act of declaring a condemned guilty (thus,
spiritually dead, unless of course like irrational confused folks, you believe
such IS spiritually alive and capable of believing in order to be justified by
God!) sinners righteous and not guilty, by applying to them personally the
righteousness of Christ.
That
justification is unto life (as opposed to the condemnation of death - see Rom
5:18); the application of Christ's righteousness to a sinner gives the divine
warrant for the Spirit of God for His work of regenerating the justified elect.
(Folks like you choose to believe the fable that the Spirit of God regenerated
the condemned whom the Father had not justified!)
Regeneration
is the free and gracious work of the Spirit of God in quickening the
spiritually dead sinner with eternal live.
YOUR
confusion lies here: you either refuse to or are incapable of distinguishing
the several DISTINCT aspects of the Bible's teaching on justification.
You
are confused. Consider these,
Justification
purposed by God...
Justification
accomplished by Christ...
Justification
applied freely by God's grace to each elect personally...(this gives the divine
warrant for the work of regeneration. You believe the FABLE of an unjustified,
but regenerated man, who then believe in order to be justified.)
Justification
EXPERIENCED by God's children through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ
EVIDENCES the justified state of the believer.
Learn
and know these distinct aspects plainly taught in Scriptures and SAVE YOURSELF
from the confusion of your own error.
Dellis
Worsham Sr.
Isn't
there a difference between being justified by God in Romans 3:28 and being
justified before men as spoken of in James 2 ?
Sing
F Lau
Yes,
there is; I hope Brother Ron can see it.
God
justifies the condemned;
God
freely declares them righteous and not guilty by applying the righteousness of
Christ to them.
Faith justifies the believing children of God; their faith VINDICATES-DEMONSTRATES-CERTIFIES them as God's children, justified and regenerated.
Works of righteousness have the SAME function. BOTH faith and works are evidence of the salvation freely bestowed by God. BOTH breathing and movement are evidence of the presence of life.
Dellis
Worsham Sr.
Wouldn't
the justifcation before men, as in James 2: ie the exercise of faith that he
has, be a fruit of his progressive sanctification? Or is that too much of a
stretch?
Ron
Warren
Ok,
you deny that Regeneration precedes Justification, here again is the confusion
to try and maintain monergism, you confuse Justification with Regeneration. No
one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise
him up on the last day. (John 6:44). The key phrase in Paul's Letter to the
Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive
together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul
locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead.
This is not Justification. What doctrine is "made alive" referring
to? The London Confession states the following, "GOD freely justifies the
persons whom He effectually calls." What is the effectual call that
precedes Justification even in the order of the LC. " CHAPTER 10 –
EFFECTUAL CALLING
"At a time appointed by and acceptable to God, those whom God has predestinated to life are effectually called by His Word and Spirit out of the state of death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ.Their minds are given spiritual enlightenment and, as those who are being saved, they begin to understand the things of God. God takes away their heart of stone and gives them a heart of flesh. He renews their will, and by His almighty power He sets them to seek and follow that which is good, at the same time effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ.And to all these changes they come most freely, for they are made willing by divine grace." The LC also teaches Justification by Faith alone, "The faith which receives and rests on Christ and His righteousness is the sole means of justification. Yet it is never alone in the person justified, but is invariably accompanied by all other saving graces. Nor is it a dead faith, for it works by love. Rom. 3:28; Gal. 5:6; Jas. 2:17,22,26.
Sing
F Lau
No,
I did not deny regeneration precedes justification.
You
DON'T read to understand, you read without wanting to understand, otherwise you
wouldn't say what you have just said.
I
affirm that Justification APPLIED is before regeneration.
I
ALSO affirm that Justification EXPERIENCED is after regeneration; I.E.
regeneration precedes justification experienced, since only a regenerated elect
is capable of believing.
If
you don't understand the above two statement, there is nothing further to say
to you... because you are incapable or refuse to acknowledge the fact that
there are SEVERAL DISTINCT aspects of justification taught in the Scriptures.
You
can choose to remain in your reformed traditions.
Sing
F Lau
You
are welcome to read this exposition on Effectual Calling.
The
Effectual Call - as summarized in the 1689 CoF
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-effectual-call-as-summarized-in.html
Sing
F Lau
And
here: Effectual Call summarised in the 1689 CoF - Venn diagram
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2013/10/effectual-call-summarised-in-1689-cof.html
Sing
F Lau.
Ron, 1689 CoF DOES NOT teach justification by faith alone. It is just a figment of your
imagination.
The
sole instrument... instrument is to make manifest something that is already
there. Faith in Jesus Christ is the sole instrument for a child of God to
experienced the blessedness of his justified state.
Here
is an exposition of 1689.11 on Justification.
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-doctrine-of-justification-as.html
