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| A fiery hell in my garden! |
How hell is denied... conveniently explained away.
Read the exchange below...
Mr 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The Lord Jesus Christ spake these solemn words to His own disciples!!!
Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye
shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast
into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."Others say, "Fear not! Hell is figurative only to God's children. Hell does not apply to God's children! It is real for others only."
Elder K wrote:
OK bro Sing, I will ask you.
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matt 5:29
Did you literally pluck your eye out the last time you lusted after a woman? Are both of your eyes still in tact? Would you purposely defile the temple of God? (your body?
Simple yes or no will suffice.
[One detects right away the rhetorical intent of the questions with the aim to advance a certain fable! sing]
I replied:
All honest questions deserve honest answers.
No, Christ is not asking me to literally pluck out my eyes.
He is commanding me to take real literal drastic measures to deal with my real LITERAL sins... and solemnly warned that if I don't I will be cast into the real literal hell at my death, there waiting for my resurrection to eternal glory.
My answer to your second question - 'would I purposely defile the temple of God, my body?
My answer: neither 'yes' nor 'no' but this: the questioner is a little imbecile!
Why should my answers be dictated by the questioner's condition???
Elder K responded:
It is a fair question. If you were to literally pluck your eye out, or cut off your hand you would be defiling the temple of your body, which was made in the image of God.
Since you admit it is not a literal plucking of the eye, then the lesson MUST by course be figurative or allegorical, and therefore it is not literal hell under consideration.
Thank you very much. Finally.
[Elder K's argument goes like this...
"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." Since you don't literally eat Christ's flesh nor drink Christ's blood, then the eternal life spoken of MUST of course be figurative or allegorical, and therefore it is not literal eternal life under consideration]
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Sing F Lau
Those solemn warnings of hell from the very lips of Christ - they can be so easily repudiated... explained away, and made of none effect - ESPECIALLY those directed towards God's children! But suddenly the hell for the non-elect is LITERAL!
Thank you.
Elder K
Please lets not resort to name calling by implication. You have a right to think I am imbecile. Prefacing your remark by saying " a little" doe snot make it less offensive.
Sing F Lau
Eider, a man is defiled by SINS... not cutting off his body parts.
You have just mismatched, [and abused] two passages of Scriptures!
The question is indeed what I said it is.
[Your question: "Would you PURPOSELY defile the temple of God? (your body?).
You have just equated what Christ has commanded His people to do as PURPOSELY defiling their bodies!!!]
I'm done with this thread. Thanks for the liberty to jog around your turf!
Elder K
I think you are attempting to deflect from your admission. Matt 5:29 is NOT literal, but figurative.
Trust me, I am more hard headed than you are.
Sing F Lau
What is not literal, and what is figurative?
Isn't sin spoken of literal? Or is Christ speaking of figurative sins???
Is the drastic effort to deal with real sins not literal real effort but just figurative effort?
Is the hell to be avoided not literal but figurative?
[No, I'm not hard headed at all. So, don't assume so. Yes, you are one indeed, by your own words! Pretty obvious!]
Elder K
I'm done. The point has been proven. Trying to muddy the waters with confusing questions does not change the fact you admitted Matt 5:29 is not literal.
Always appreciate the exchange.
Signed, " little imbecile." [ah, you feel sore!, sing]
Have a nice day.
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MY CONCLUSION: how the Lord's teaching on hell is so conveniently explained away!
Mr 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect
through your tradition, which ye have delivered:
and many such like things do ye.
The Elder K's idea about hell is probably something like this:
- all references to hell is figurative for God's people. None will go there, thus all the solemn warnings of Christ directed to His disciples are redundant and superfluous!
- they can be cast into a figurative hell, then pull themselves out of it again, and be cast into it again, and get out of it again, etc.
- BUT the same figurative hell is as real and literal as can be for others... probably a one way ticket, once cast in, never to come out UNTIL hell delivers them up on the resurrection day for judgment!
Rev 20
11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20
11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Some plain observations:
- None of God's people shall be in the lake of fire. They, whose names were written in the book of life, shall all be glorified and enter into their eternal inheritance... even those who were cast into hell at their death.
- There is a clear distinction between hell and the lake of fire. Hell is temporal, operative between physical death and the great judgment day. The lake of fire is everlasting, becomes operative at the great judgment.
- Death and hell shall deliver up all those that were cast into it on the resurrection day, for the great judgment. Those among them whose names were not written in the book of life shall be judged, and cast into the lake of fire.
- Those who names were written the book of life have been judged in Christ, shall enter into their glorious inheritance.
The Lord Jesus Christ gave this solemn warning to His own disciples!!!
Lu 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."
Mt 5:29 "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Others teach, "Fear not! Hell is figurative only to God's children. Hell does not apply to God's children! It is real for others only."
Mt 5:29 "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Mt 23:23 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
Others teach, "Fear not! Hell is figurative only to God's children. Hell does not apply to God's children! It is real for others only."
Re 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;
and have the keys of hell and of death."
