Everlasting / for ever ≠ eternal

Everlasting ≠ eternal
"For ever" ≠ eternal

October 28, 2019
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid0tUJDgHGEYt3yX7fNYGmqjUV5vHfbMixu7wuSPxCeKNFQx874swzapGjy6YtevAWXl

#Eternal_vs_Temporal
#Eternity_vs_Temporality

#Temporality - the state of existing within or having some relationship with time.
#Eternity - a state to which time has no relevance; timelessness.

Hebrews 5:9 KJV — And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Hebrews 9:12 KJV — Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Philippians 2:12 KJV — Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Timothy 4:16 KJV — Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The salvation which God purposed, Christ accomplished, and the Holy Spirit freely applies to each elect personally (while still dead in trespasses and sins) is eternal salvation, redeeming them from eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

Of this gospel of eternal salvation, it is said,

Titus 2 - KJV
11 ¶For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those whom the Triune God has freely and graciously saved with eternal salvation are enabled to work out their own salvation; they are commanded to do so with fear and trembling.

How? By "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Everlasting ≠ eternal

Both "everlasting" and "for ever" are in the realm of time; there is a terminal point determined by God.

Genesis 17:8 KJT
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Genesis 48:4 KJT
And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

"For ever" ≠ eternal

Gen 13:15 - KJT
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Exo 12:24 KJT
And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

The "everlasting possession" lasted as long as the LORD had ordained it; until then, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it; and then the appointed end came.

The "for ever" ordinance was made obsolete and ended by the same LORD at the appointed time.

May the Lord grant you understanding.

AMEN.

=========

p/s 

A man posted these words and attributed them to someone remembering I said them:
"Both of these terms refer to existence. However, 'eternal' indicates something that has no beginning and no end. It has existed and it continues to exist. 'Everlasting', though, is about something that has a beginning but will last forever."
======

I’m sure the above are neither my words nor my thoughts. I hope they were not copied from somewhere and attributed to what someone remembered me saying them!

In any case, the above spurred some brief thoughts as I muse on the words quoted above.

1. The terms eternal and everlasting refer to the REALM of existence, not existence; the former in the realm of eternity and the latter in the realm of temporality; one is outside of the realm of time, and the other is bound in the realm of time.
- They speak of the existence in different REALM – one in eternity, the other in time.

2. Beginning and end have relevance only in the realm of time; the concept of everlasting is irrelevant in the realm of eternity, it's a needless redundant word.
- The Triune God, the I AM THAT I AM, is both BEFORE the beginning of time and BEYOND the end of time; He existed before the beginning of time (Gen 1:1) and He remains ABOVE/OUTSIDE of time He has created, and continues beyond the end of time when He abolishes it.
- In that sense God alone is absolutely from everlasting to everlasting, i.e. He created time, and He also will end time; He was there at the beginning of time and He will be there at the end of time.

3. When the eternal Word was made flesh, One in the REALM of eternity entered into the REALM of time.
- Through Christ, the divinely begotten Son of God, and His redemptive work for His people, they who existed and are bound in the realm of time (and sin and death and condemnation too) are made fit to exist in the realm of eternity. WHAT MAGIC! That’s the gospel of God.
- Both everlasting life and eternal life are spoken of concerning Christ’s redeemed people. The two terms are not synonymous even though many wish to insist otherwise. One or two passages from the KJT are enough to debunk such a notion.
- It is everlasting life because it shall be preserved by God till the end of time; it began at some point in time and last until the end of time for glorification. 1Pet 1:4,

4. Glorification will translate the redeemed from the realm of time (subject to changes) into the realm of eternity (not subject to changes).
- Glorification is the ABSOLUTE last change that all the redeemed will experience. Eternal life is consummated.
- The penultimate change for some of the redeemed shall be being surrendered/delivered up by hell for their glorification – that’s my personal belief, of course, but based on the Scriptures’ authority, in my opinion.
- The blessed Lord Jesus Christ is One who holds the keys of hell and of death (Rev 1:18); He has authority over both; hell shall deliver up/surrender all its captives at His appointed time (Rev 20:13).
- What a glorious gospel of God, making those bound in the realm of time FIT to enter the realm of eternity, the realm of the Divine and blessedness.

As an aside, hell is in the realm of time; it's not eternal, it’s everlasting but will end at God’s appointed time; the lake of fire WILL BE in the realm of eternity, appointed by God.

Christ’s redemptive work dealt with eternal salvation; He saved His people from the eternal lake of fire.

Rev 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." 

That is, whosoever was found written in the book of life was glorified and ushered into the eternal heaven. Christ Jesus came to save eternally from the lake of fire all those whose names were found written in the Lamb's Book of Life

2Ti 2:7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things."

Repentance to the acknowledging of the truth

 

October 23, 2016 
Acknowledging of the Truth

Isaiah 44:
18  They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19  And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20  He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

II Timothy 2:
24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Our God is a God of truth, and He must be worshipped in truth. He rejects any other worship, no matter how sincere worshippers might be. This makes perfectly good and very simple sense. Believe it, and embrace it.

Buy the truth and sell it not (Pr 23:23)! Are you fully committed to truth for your life? Lies are a rejection of reality and wisdom to embrace fantasy and folly. The world loves lies.

God revealed truth from the beginning, and He reveals His truth every day and night to all men. But we through our first parents chose a lie in the beginning, and we have been blinded ever since.

The first passage above describes the idiotic blindness of idolaters – who worship the leftovers of a tree after burning 2/3’s of it in a fire. It never crosses their minds that they are religiously insane for falling down to worship the leftovers of a tree that they burned to ashes.

They do not know ... they do not understand ... they never consider ... so they end up religiously worshipping what is no better than ashes. God blinded them, and they are without hope unless He opens their eyes to see their folly and opens their hearts to believe His true wisdom.

Deception is a very horrible predicament – to believe something is the truth and take confidence in it – though it is nothing more than a lie. It is to have a lie in your right hand ... but without any ability to know that it is a lie ... and to be without any ability to let go of the lie! Before God visits a man with regeneration and the truth, He cannot deliver himself, just like this idolater ... and just like the woman of Samaria.

The second passage above describes the absolute necessity for God to give repentance to a man for him to reject Satan’s lies and accept God’s truth.

It cannot and will not ever happen without God first giving the gift of repentance through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit on a man’s heart. Until then, no matter if the minister is Timothy trained by Paul, he will not be able to enlighten a man, even by perfect ministerial conduct on his part. Until God changes a man, he will continue to oppose himself – contradicting himself by human illogic denying the most obvious reality, truth, and wisdom.

But once God does his work – Hallelujah! – we are able by the power of the Spirit and a new man to reject lies and both love and obey God’s truth. --- JRC.

=====

Amen and amen.

11 Comments

Sing F Lau

Brother Mark,

You are just SO SORE with me because I DIDN'T become a PB. Isn't that the truth? Why would you want me to be a PB when I can't properly fit in the neat PB box for me? I'm puzzled.

Reply6yEdited

Sing F Lau

What argument is there?

State it exactly. How to enter into argument when I don't even know what the issue for argument?

What's a Spurgeon line?

Reply6yEdited

Sing F Lau

Mark, if you have problem with the commentaries of the 2 passages in the post above, then you must say so, and then STATE your problem, then we can deal with your problem.

Why should I care about what you have stated? Isn't that a strange procedure? You came here, left some sweet comments, and then harassed me to rebut them? That's very untypical of PBs.

It is like the imperialistic arrogant Uncle Sam picking a fight with China or Russia! 😉

The LORD of hosts' description of His messengers

October 23, 2017

The LORD of hosts' description of His messengers.

Does your expectation match that of the divine description of your pastors and teachers?

Malachi 2
4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Unto such give heed:
- life and peace are bound up through their ministry
- they will, by their teaching and example, lead you to fear the Lord and reverent His name
- the law of truth is in their mouths
- iniquity (falsehood) is not found on their lips
- they walk with the Lord in peace (Amos 3:3) and equity (just and fair)
- they, through their ministry, turn many from iniquity (of falsehood and ungodliness)
- their lips keep and teach the knowledge of God
- people should seek the law of God at their mouth...
- FOR they are the messengers of the LORD of hosts.

But flee from all others, to save yourself from ruin.
- Read Malachi 1 how the people of God have been corrupted by their ministry; the ministry of those unfaithful priests have destroyed the people.

1Ti 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Many are attracted to the doctrine of gospel regeneration. Why?

October 21, 2017

Many are attracted to the doctrine of gospel regeneration, i.e. God uses the gospel preaching as the means to regenerate sinners dead in trespasses and sin.

It seems to give its adherents an aura of power and indispensability in the eternal salvation of God's elect. They think God is impotent to produce His children without them! Or if God does not bring His elect to hear them, or if they fail to get to the elect in all nations, tongues, people, and tribes, then God's elect will perish. God chose to subject His sovereignty in regeneration, they explain,  to the cooperation of human activities of preaching, and hearing the gospel.

Why can't they see the simple distinction, that the activity assisting God to produce His children is a WIDE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE from the activities of helping God in nurturing His children - whom He has fathered Himself by free and sovereign grace - through the instrument of preaching?

Regeneration is the divine activity of bringing God's children into BEING; Conversion, through the ministry of the word, deals with the WELL-BEING of the children of God.

Apostle Paul exhorted Timothy,

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

19 Comments

=======

(One Brett made many comments, raving away with his ideas...)

Sing
Yes, like many of God's children among the Jews, they needed to be converted to the truth of Jesus Christ.

Dellis Layne
I was just making sure I had my ducks in a row.

Sing
"Ducks in a row" - I hear a new expression. What meaneth, Sir?

Dellis Layne 
It's an old one for me. It means getting everything in line

Dellis Layne Worsham Sr.
like this

Dellis Layne
In your photo, on the conversion side, please explain "repeated".

Matthew Carl Eastland
Conversion is not necessarily a one-time event. God, in His Providence, may only lead you to a place where you have learned some of the truth but not all of it. To give an example I know personally, my father-in-law went from a God-hating Humanist to a Christian, but only knew and understood some aspects of truth. He was an Arminian and believed a number of wrong things until he was shown more truth years later. He was regenerated to even have embraced God at all, but his conversion was gradual. A scriptural example of this would be Apollos. He already followed the teachings of John the Baptist and showed his regeneration by his deeds and love of the truth he had. But it took Aquila and Priscilla showing him "the way of God more perfectly" for him to understand the message of Christ that John had been teaching.

Or, the other side of the equation is that sometimes we choose not to live in the light of our salvation and God allows us to walk away from the truth for a while. We can lose some of our understanding or just reject it for sinful ideas. But God, in His mercy, can then call us back to Him, so that we change our lives again to please Him. The scriptural example of this would be Peter, who had been with Jesus for years already and had been clearly regenerated and led by God, as could be seen in many statements, but then went and denied Christ. Jesus Himself told Peter "when thou art converted" to strengthen the others in Luke 22:32. Peter had been converted before to preach, but he back-slid in sin and had to be converted again.

Sing
Regeneration is a once, complete, perfect, immutable event.
Conversion is a lifelong process, thus repeated, and ends at our last breath.

Dellis Layne
Thanks to both of you.

Sing
Mr Brett Noll has deleted all his comments.

Sing
Brett, you are just a shameless coward, deleting what you have written because they have been shown to be in error. "Ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise - 2Pet 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,
as some men count slackness...

 

 October 21, 2018 

Look at this passage in the context of 2Pet 3:1-13, and answer these questions to assist you to rightly divide the word of truth stated in the passage. Don't succumb to sound-byte!

Remember that Apostle Peter was an apostle to the Jews, and he was writing to "them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."  2Pet 1:1 The pronoun "us" refers to the fellow Jewish Apostles.

2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Ask the right questions, e.g.,

a. what's the Lord's promise here? And to whom was it made?

b. who are the"some men" who scoff at the Lord's promise?

c. who are the "us-ward" to whom the Lord is longsuffering?

d. to whom does the pronoun "any" refer? Any of which, or what?

e. are those to whom the Lord is longsuffering and those He is not willing to perish related?

f. The Lord is not willing that any should "perish" - what's the perishing here, perish in what sense?

g. "all" of whom should come to repentance?

h. how will repentance save them from  perishing spoken of?

You may have some other questions on the text; feel free to ask.

Here is another one:

i. those men who charged the Lord for slackness concerning the fulfillment of His promise, what can be concluded about them?

If you can stick to the text and questions, please give your thoughts. Thanks.

(Wolliness is not tolerated.)

 =========

 Dellis Layne
a. Christ coming again

b. Men who say He has already came, or is not coming at all

c. To us-wards, the chosen, even the ones who aren't born yet.

d. The church, the bride.

e. yes

f. perish from the comfort of knowing that the Lord fulfills His promises, both in this life and that life which is to come.

g. All the chosen of God. .

Sing
Thank you for responding.
Concerning a. Christ coming again.
2Pet 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Last days of what - of the end of the theocratic kingdom of Israel, or the last days of the gospel age?

Christ coming again in judgment upon the Jewish nation in AD70 or at the end of the gospel age?

Brother Dellis, take a look here:
The Lord is not willing that any should perish
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/10/lord-is-not-willing-that-any-should.html
THINGS-NEW-AND-OLD.BLOGSPOT.COM

Dellis Layne
I read and enjoyed the whole article. It makes perfect sense, even if they were man's "cheapskate thoughts" 😉. Now, I have some serious studying to do.

May God Bless! Thanks Brother Sing

Steve Woods
Some more questions, is come to repentance same as repenting and if not why not and who or what will bring them to “repentance “?(and remember repentance is a noun, not a verb).

Sing
"SHOULD come to repentance..."

Sing 
I'll answer the questions since there is no further interest.
You are free the challenge any of them.

a. what's the Lord's promise here? And to whom?
- The promise of His judgment to destroy Israel. Read Mt 24; to the Jews.

b. who are the men who scoff at the Lord's promise?
- The unbelieving Jews, "where is the promised judgment, where?"

c. who are the "us-ward" to whom the Lord is longsuffering?
- The recipient of Peter's epistle, "them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." 2Pet 1:1

d. to whom does the pronoun "any" refer? Any of which, or what?
- Any of "them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." 2Pet 1:1

e. are those to whom the Lord is longsuffering and those He is not willing to perish related?
- Yes, co-extensive, as many as.

f. The Lord is not willing that any should "perish" in what sense?
- Perish being slaughtered and roasted by the Roman armies in that promised coming of the Lord in judgment in AD70.

g. "all" of who should come to repentance?
- God's children among the Jews, EVEN "them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." 2Pet 1:1

h. how will repentance save them from perishing?
- Repentance from unbelief, and believing the promised judgment, they will flee Jerusalem and deliver themselves from the vengeance executed through the Roman armies. "Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Mt 24:17

Dellis Layne
My apologies for not getting back with. I thought I should do some more research before responding further.

I have reading the posts from a preterist group. This goes along with them in a lot of ways.

Sing
Brother Dellis, no apology is needed. I'm glad you are reading more.
The similarities are only incidental.
Preterism as a system is a grievous heresy.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/preterism.pdf

Dellis Layne 
Thanks, That will keep me busy for a while...

Regeneration and Spiritual-mindedness

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10203299896793666
December 9, 2014 

Question:
Do we have a spiritual mind through regeneration or do we develop a spiritual mind beginning at the initial conversion by the hearing, and believing of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Is a spiritual mind an intrinsic fruit of regeneration?

What do you think?

An answer:
A spiritual mind is the mind of a child of God that is BEING renewed and transformed by and through the ministry of the word of truth.

A child of God has spiritual life through the immediate regeneration by the Spirit of God, without the ministry of the word.

A child of God CANNOT, and DOES NOT and WILL NOT have a spiritual mind apart from the ministry of the word that renews and transforms the mind, AND the child of God subjecting his mind to the will of God.

Without the ministry of the word, God's children remain ignorant as well as carnal!!!

Regeneration DOES NOT produce a mind that is spiritual.

No, a spiritual mind IS NOT intrinsic to regeneration.

===========
Comments

Sing F Lau
If speaking of nature, then it is a redundant question... since that is already assumed by virtue of regeneration, brother Dan.

[Dan commented and deleted them...]

Sing F Lau
The original question is this:

Is a spiritual mind intrinsic to regeneration? What do you think?

If the spiritual mind is intrinsic to regeneration, than EVERY child of God without exception will have spiritual mind, and therefore none will have carnal mind. But that idea does not accord with Scriptures.

Sing F Lau
Yes, a regenerate has a spiritual nature; he is no longer flesh, he is spirit. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

A regenerate has a spiritual nature but NOT an intrinsic spiritual mind the way the Scriptures speak of being spiritually minded. A spiritual nature enables him to have a spiritual mind.

In the context of a regenerate, being spiritually minded and carnally minded are opposed to each other.

Sing F Lau
A spiritual nature by virtue of divine activity of regeneration, and a spiritual mind by virtue of its renewal through the ministry of the word and being transformed through it are quite distinct indeed.

Ante Zivkovic
I think that the issue is that regenerated person cannot know right from wrong without the ministry.

Sing F Lau
1 Cor 3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

These Corinthians believers were children of God, regenerate elect.

But they were NOT spiritual minded. They were carnal!
Spiritual things are spiritually discerning. Those who have a spiritual nature, a new nature as a result of regeneration is capable of discerning spiritual things. Under the ministry of the word, a man MIND with a spiritual NATURE will soon be renewed and his mind is said to spiritual.

A dead man that is quickened will soon gain health and strengthen under a rigorous regime of nourishment and physiotherapy. I hope this helps to illustrate what I'm saying.

Sing F Lau
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

============

It requires great effort on the part of God's children to move from being carnally minded to being spiritually minded.

If being spiritually minded is intrinsic in regeneration, then life and peace here on earth IS automatically the portion of all of God's children.

Sing F Lau
I thought so... we are defining thing differently.

A man with a new spiritual NATURE is not necessarily of spiritual mind.

You seem to disagree with this... do I read you right?

If a spiritual mind is intrinsic to regeneration, then each and every child of God (regenerated elect) IS spiritually minded, and none will ever be carnally minded. Such idea is quite contrary to Scriptures.

I wish such idea is true indeed. It will make pastoral ministry a whole lot easier!

Sing F Lau
1. It all depends how you understand "spiritual mind" and "spiritually minded."

In one sense EVRYTHING about a regenerate is spiritual.... since " that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Thus he is a spiritual man, in contrast to being a natural man, of the flesh. Such a spiritual man DOES NOT necessarily be spiritually minded.To be spiritually minded, his "spiritual mind" - the mind of the spiritual man MUST need to be instructed and renewed by the word of God. Thus being spiritually minded is NOT intrinsic to regeneration.

2. The mind of the "spiritual man" on any particular matter is either carnal or spiritual, either conformed to God's word, or not.

On matter A, he may be spiritually minded, on matter B he may be carnally minded.

This is how I understand the matter.

Sing F Lau
Let me put rephrase what you say - "I believe Paul (Rom. 8:6) talks about two sort of mindedness that a spiritual mind of a regenerated may put on: spiritually minded or carnally minded."

Is that what you are saying - a spirirual mind yet carnally minded?

I would rather say - a spiritual man yet carnally minded.

Sing F Lau
The reason I REPHRASE it (I did say "Let me rephrase what you say") to highlight the problem as I see it... that of equating a man with spiritual life with a spiritual mind.

In your understanding, a regenerate is ESSENTIALLY a spiritual mind also, and then that spiritual mind can be spiritually minded or carnally minded.

I think that manner of speaking is a recipe for confusion.

Sing F Lau
Brother Dan, I may have erred.
I will leave it to you to use such language as "a spiritual mind is not spiritually minded."

Carnally minded is the result of the spiritual man nothing thinking and acting spiritually. You would attribute it to the old nature.

Legal, Vital, Practical Aspects of Justification

The doctrine of Justification
is like this multifaceted diamond. 

October 13, 2011

"Beware of preaching that acknowledges that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ but then seems to think that we are then sanctified by a holiness we ourselves have acquired.” - Herman Bavinck

There is a far more common and subtle and devious heresy: "Beware of preaching that acknowledges that you are justified before God by YOUR FAITH IN Christ."

The righteousness of Christ and your faith in Christ are two completely different things. The truth Herman affirmed has been perverted by so many.

The former declares the ground and basis of one's LEGAL justification which took place at the cross. The latter speaks of the means to experience your justified state through believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ, PRACTICAL justification.

Between the two stands the PERSONAL/VITAL justification, when God applies what was LEGAL to an elect personally at effectual calling, calling an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of righteousness and eternal life.

What was DECREED in eternity was ACCOMPLISHED by Christ on the cross.

What was accomplished on the cross is APPLIED to each elect personally by God's free and sovereign grace when an elect was still dead in trespasses and sins.

What was APPLIED by God's free and sovereign grace to an elect personally is then EXPERIENCED through faith in Jesus Christ. 'Faith cometh by hearing...' - hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And there will be a FINAL justification when it is declared, "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

There are 5 distinct aspects of the doctrine of justification:

Justification DECREED for all the elect in eternity,
Justification ACCOMPLISHED for all the elect at the cross,
Justification APPLIED to each elect personally at effectual calling,
Justification EXPERIENCED through believing in Jesus Christ, and Justification VINDICATED on the great judgment day.

Many perceive the doctrine of Justification 
as this plain marble - by faith, 
their sola fide! 

Teacher, do you understand these yet - Legal, Vital, and Practical?

October 13, 2011

Teacher: 
'We know nothing about a "legal justification" that was in the mind of God before we were born until we are actually called by God's sovereign grace in time and are eternally saved. As Spurgeon observed, show me the elect and I shall preach only to them.'

Student suggested:
You know nothing, Teacher?
Doesn't the Scriptures declare so clearly that it was all purposed in the mind of God? How come the Framers of the Confession knew it so well?

They distinguish the justification DECREED in eternity, the justification LEGALLY transacted on the cross, and the justification applied to each elect PERSONALLY at effectual calling out of their native state of sin, condemnation, and death!

When was Adam's sin imputed to you?
- At the fall

When was your sin imputed to Christ?
- At the cross; if your sins were not imputed to Christ at the cross, then your sins have not been suffered and atoned for. Period.

When was Christ's righteousness imputed to you?
- At the cross; the double imputation took place at the cross.

When was Adam's sin applied to you?
- At your conception in your mother's womb.

When was Christ's righteousness applied to you?
- At your effectual calling out of your native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation in Jesus Christ, by God's free and sovereign grace.

When is Adam's sin experienced in you?
- In your acts of sins, you experience condemnation of guilt

When is Christ's righteousness experienced in you?
- in your acts of faith in and obedience to Christ.

HAVE YOU NOT READ THIS... teacher?
"God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, (11) and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification;(12) nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.(13)" 1689.11.4

Notice THREE DISTINCT aspects of justification spoken of in the above:

1st. God DID from all eternity decree to justify all the elect...

2nd. Christ DID in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification...

3rd. Nevertheless, they are not justified PERSONALLY, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.

No 1 speaks of the justification DECREED by God Himself from all eternity!

No 2 speaks of the justification LEGALLY accomplished by Christ for all the elect!

No 3 speaks of the justification PERSONALLY applied when what is legal is APPLIED to each elect personally.

'Not justified personally' presupposes 'already legally justified but not personally'! What was made legal on the cross is made personal at effectual calling to grace and eternal life... which then makes believing possible! Life MUST PRECEDE the activity of life. 

What was IMPUTED LEGALLY at the cross, is APPLIED PERSONALLY to an elect of God at his effectual calling out of his native state of sin, condemnation, and death to that of righteousness, justification, and life (regeneration).

Teacher, do you understand yet?

A Calvinist insist, "Saving faith precedes imputed righteousness"

October 13, 2011 

Teacher declares:
"Saving faith precedes imputed righteousness"

Student reasons:
1. A man without the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ is still a man in his native state, under the just condemnation of sin and death.

2. A man without the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ is still dead in trespasses and sins.

Sins bring condemnation and death.
Righteousness secures justification and life.

There can be no justification and life without the righteousness of Christ APPLIED to an elect personally.

And that righteousness which secures justification and life before God is none other than the righteousness of God's own provision, EVEN the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

That righteousness of Jesus Christ was IMPUTED to all of God's elect at the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Simultaneously, all the sins of all God's elect were IMPUTED to Christ when he died on the cross as a substitute for His people.

3. Righteousness of Jesus Christ must first be APPLIED to an elect by the Father in order for the Holy Spirit to have the divine warrant to regenerate an elect still in his native state of sin and death.

What was imputed LEGALLY to every elect at the cross need to be APPLIED to each elect personally at God's appointed and approved time when God effectually calls them out of their native state of sin and death to that state of righteousness and eternal life.

This effectual call to righteousness and eternal life requires: justification APPLIED personally, regeneration to life, and adoption into the family of God, with the Holy Spirit given as the Spirit of adoption. Without these three distinct divine activities - in that logical order and number - there is no effectual call to grace and salvation.

Without imputed righteousness APPLIED personally, an elect is STILL dead in trespasses and sins... saving faith cannot be found in such!

4. Saving faith, in distinction from historical faith, is a grace worked in the heart by the indwelling Spirit of adoption.

Saving faith is one of the many graces worked in the heart of a child of God by the indwelling Holy Spirit. Saving faith is a fruit of salvation already bestowed freely by the sovereign God. Saving faith is an effect, a fruit of imputed righteousness APPLIED personally.

Conclusion:

'Saving faith precedes imputed righteousness' is pure Arminian speaks... putting the carriage before the engine... and this is all the more odious when insisted by the so-called elitist Calvinists!
=======

7 Comments

Mark Mcculley
http://markmcculley.wordpress.com/.../if-owenites-are.../
MARKMCCULLEY.WORDPRESS.COM
If “Owenites” Are Right, There is No Need for Faith?

Sing F Lau
What did Owen say?

Mark Mcculley
Owen says that the righteousness is the logical cause of the regeneration, but he does put regeneration before justification. I disagree with him about that. But I agree with Owen that God imputes the righteousness (the reconciliation obtained at the cross) in time. Let me ask you one. In Romans 16, why does Paul say that some were in Christ before he was? Notice, he doesn't only say that the Spirit was in them before the Spirit was in Paul. Paul says "in Christ". My answer is--by legal imputation.

Sing F Lau
Legal imputation of Christ's righteousness happened at the cross - in time.

Personal application of Christ's righteousness happened at the effectual calling of an elect out of his state of sin and death.

Personal application of Christ's righteousness to an elect MUST PRECEDE (logically) the regeneration of an elect. Personal application of Christ's righteousness by the Father gives the divine warrant for the regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

My answer: by PERSONAL application.

Sing F Lau
Let me illustrate this truth:
By Christ's work of redemption, righteousness is legally secured for all the elect. Double imputation took place... Christ's righteousness is imputed to all His elect, and all the sins of all His elect were imputed to Him. This is justification by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Any sin not imputed to Him, and He suffered the full penalty of it, at the cross... TOOOOOO BAD... and TOOOOOO LATE.

That righteousness is APPLIED to each elect personally at God's appointed and approved time... at effectual calling out of their state of sin and death to that of righteousness and life. What was legal is now made personal - This is justification by the free grace of God.

The personal application of Christ's righteousness quickens an elect of God. This enables him to experience his justified state - by the righteousness of Christ applied to him personally by the free grace of God - when he hears and believes the gospel.

A man justified by the free grace of God will rejoice to hear the gospel of his justified state by Christ's righteousness - both imputed, and applied to him.

William D Martin
Good word!!!!!

Sing F Lau
Teacher said: 'I deny that there is any imputation of righteousness at the cross.'

Student: How strange that you deny there is legal imputation at the cross so plainly taught in the Scriptures.

Read this passage and see what it says to you: Romans 5

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one, the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By the offence of ONE... judgment came upon ALL represented by that ONE to condemnation. That is ONE LEGAL imputation of SIN to ALL MEN represented by Adam to LEGAL CONDEMNATION of death. This is not multitudes of APPLICATIONS of condemnation of death to each individual personally which takes place at conception.

By the righteousness of ONE... the free gift came upon ALL represented by that ONE unto justification of life. That is ONE LEGAL imputation of RIGHTEOUSNESS to ALL MEN represented by Christ unto LEGAL JUSTIFICATION of LIFE. This is not multitudes of APPLICATIONS of the justification of life to each individual personally which takes place at the effectual call to grace and salvation in Jesus Christ.

A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

Justification by the blood of Christ (Legal)
is distinct from the
Justification by the free grace of God (Vital/Personal)
is distinct from the
Justification by believing in Jesus Christ! (Practical)

Go figure, Teacher! Some men are either incapable of making the distinctions or refusing to do so, thus failing to rightly divide the word of truth.

Famine of the word

  

#famine_of_the_word

Drought and famine are dreaded by all except the few who would exploit such crisis as a golden opportunity to further their evil agenda.

Few rejoice when there is abundant provision; they take things for granted, perhaps because of the entitlement mentality.

How many among God's children tremble at the thought of the famine of the word of truth? Few of us thirst and hunger, and devour the word of truth in good times.  How will we fare when famine strikes? Maybe, the lean soul is already hardened by long neglect and negligence and knows not the difference.

Few ever uproot to find good pasture to nourish their famished soul.

Many are willing and ready to move and relocate - sometimes even halfway around the world because of "greener" pastures - for popular reasons - employment, children's education, etc. How often do Christians relocate for the word of God? That consideration is often not even on their list or thought. God is not in the equation.

"Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." These will go to great lengths to overcome obstacles and hindrances to settle near the pasture.

Supposing a benefactor FREELY credited a $1b into your account...

Wouldn't it be SCANDALOUS and TREACHEROUS
and CRIMINAL of you to claim and insist
that it is your believing the good news and going to the bank
THAT CAUSED the gift to be freely
credited to your account by the Benefactor?

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/3780634829889
October 3, 2012

Justification by faith (man's act of believing) alone is a great and injurious lie of the devil! And both the Calvinists and their Arminian cousins believe the same lie!

Supposing a benefactor FREELY credited a $1b into your personal account and paid off ALL your debt too while you were condemned and declared bankrupt.

He then sends his servant to bring the good news to you and calls you to believe it. (Good news is news of what has happened; the good news is not what will happen if a condition is met, i.e. good news is not a conditional offer!).

And suppose you believe the good news of the benefactor's FREE and gracious act, and by faith, you go to the bank to draw on the money.

(Or perhaps you were told of an offer instead, and not the good news; that is, that IF you, a condemned bankrupt, would only believe and accept the good offer and go to the bank, THEN the Benefactor would credit that  $1b to your personal account and also pay off ALL your debt.)

Wouldn't it be SCANDALOUS and TREACHEROUS and CRIMINAL of you to claim and insist that it is your believing the good news and going to the bank THAT CAUSED the gift to be freely credited to your account by the Benefactor?

The truth is, your believing and going to the bank EVIDENCES the great deed that HAS BEEN DONE for your sake! If he hasn't done it for you, there would be no such good news for you to believe! And believing something that is not true doesn't make it come true... it is only believing a lie!

Your believing or not believing does not in the slightest manner affect the reality of the things that are already done for you! But your believing enables you to experience the blessings of those things already done for you by free grace.

Yet so many insist that... they are justified before God by or through their faith in Jesus Christ! Upon their believing in Jesus Christ, God justifies them, i.e. God gives them the righteousness of Christ upon their believing in Christ! What a lie!

Sola fidei is a great lie of the devil - it is treacherous and scandalous, injurious and criminal.

Do you begin to understand the great issue involve? It is not just semantics! It is Christ's honour and truth at stake!

[Samuel made some comments and deleted them.]

sing
Go ahead and explain what those passages are saying, Samuel. I would like to hear you out. Have you understood the illustration?

Addiction to sound byte is a crippling disease. And I don't tolerate such sickness here. It is contagious! <LOL>

Marty-Sandy Smith
Amen, Brother Sing! It would be unjust for a debtor to claim his belief had made a previously made debt settlement effective. It would also be unjust for a creditor to condemn a debtor whose debts had been paid in full.

sing
No, free grace is not repetitive.
Free grace is ONE UNBROKEN CONTINUOUS WHOLE... no need for repetition. If you are tired of free grace... take a break with some work grace!

Stick to the subject if you wish to comment. No littering, please. Thanks.

Dellis Layne Worsham Sr.
Jesus didn't die because I believe in Him, I believe in Him because He died for "me"....?

Daniel Goh
Now I seem to get what you are saying here, I always tie you together as a Calvinist.

sing
Brother Daniel Goh, it gives me some joy to read that you SEEM to get what I'm saying!!! May our Lord give you the right understanding of the truth of your salvation.
We must recover the lost truth... the lost gospel.

sing
A conversation on the above subject between A and B:

A: Upon their believing in Jesus Christ, God justifies them, i.e. God gives them the righteousness of Christ upon their believing in Christ!

B: Brother, did God give you Christ's righteousness upon your believing?

A: Yes I received Christ's righteousness when I placed my faith in Him and His Work for me at Calvary.

B: When you were WITHOUT Christ's righteousness, what state were you in, Brother?

A: Depraved, UTTERLY depraved, utterly.

B: Really? Do you really believe that? You are sure?

A: I know it, my Brother and I know it.

B: And do you ALSO know that in such a depraved, utter depraved state, it is impossible for you to believe IN ORDER to have Christ's righteousness imputed to you? Or such a depraved state is just a meaningless shibboleth... because you claim that in such a utterly depraved state you are still capable of believing, and upon your believing, Christ's righteousness is imputed to you.

A: Holy Spirit! HELLO Holy Spirit convicts! NOT YOU. Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit convicts!

B: Silly Brother, I'm not trying to convict you, or anyone. It is true, only the Spirit of truth can convict a child of God of the truth of his salvation by God's free grace. I'm just saying that you are completely inconsistent. And that's not good. And you are just TOOOOOOOOOOO proud to admit your plain inconsistency. Why divert the issue now. Have some integrity. It takes a big heart to admit one's error.

A: Ok I accept my errors, sorry for the lacking discernment.

========

Is A converted to the truth? Is it that easy? I don't know.
May our Lord save me from cynicism... having dealt with so many hardened 'sola fideists'!

sing
An elect to whom God has not APPLIED personally the righteousness of Christ by His free grace is STILL a man in his native state of the condemnation of death. (The righteousness of Christ has been IMPUTED legally to all the elect at the cross, just as the sin of Adam was IMPUTED legally to all represented by Adam at the fall.)

In his native state of the condemnation of death, there is no possibility of him believing.

ONLY after the justification of life is applied to him personally, wholly and solely by God's free grace, is an elect enabled to believe.

IT IS the just, i.e. the justified one by God's free grace, that shall live by faith.

It is NOT the condemned ones, i.e. those not justified, who by faith shall be justified by God, and live!!!!!!!

Daniel Goh
A is not saved, period.

Robert Cook Sr.
A child of God or His elect are eternally saved but are helpless to know it until the Spirit of God is put in them so they can see the things freely given to them.

sing
Brother Daniel, A is saved, but his mind is messed up, and confused. His is badly taught.

sing
Robert Cook, the Spirit of God is a gift given to every child of God at effectual call, working saving graces in them. For them to know the gospel of their salvation (which teaches all the things freely given to them), they need access to a faithful gospel ministry! Without a faithful gospel ministry, they will remain ignorant of the truth of their eternal salvation by God's free grace, and they will experience little of the temporal salvation ministered through the gospel ministry.

Robert Cook Sr.
Sing for the most part that is true but there is the direct revelation also gospel directly from God as in Job and Abraham etc., but as you say without the Spirit being put in you we are blind and disinterested in the things concerning eternity.
[sing: far worse than blind; without the Spirit in us, we are still dead in trespasses and sin.]

sing
IF there is such a direct revelation of the gospel from God Himself, THEN it is the SAME to every child of God...

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Robert Cook Sr.
Sing I thought the previous two comments were about instruction from the written word and a faithful gospel ministry? every child of God is made alive in Christ the same way but the teaching after is done in many different ways of which some never receive or are taught the truth of their salvation. unless I am a complete moron and misunderstand altogether.

sing
Brother Obert, you are a complete NON-moron!
I was responding to your statement about "there is the direct revelation also gospel directly from God."

Robert Cook Sr.
Thanks, Sing your humour is quite interesting to a moron but only to people like me!

Mike PH
That was a clear exposition of salvation by grace and not by faith in Jesus Christ and faith is just evidence of one saved by God's grace, however many still could not understand this doctrine correctly.