Take a close look!
This post on Facebook and the exchange took place 5 years ago (I was reminded by Facebook's "On This Day" - 04 September 2013.
I have written on Eph 2:8-9 (here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html ), it is the most read article on the blog. But Brother Dan has an interesting way of presenting it. That's the reason why I want to put it up here. He invites you to look at it AGAIN. Do it.
Dan Hya wrote:
Try to take a look at it again
I have written on Eph 2:8-9 (here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html ), it is the most read article on the blog. But Brother Dan has an interesting way of presenting it. That's the reason why I want to put it up here. He invites you to look at it AGAIN. Do it.
Dan Hya wrote:
Try to take a look at it again
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9
Notice seven (7) things:
1. Salvation is by grace. (I believe you agree)
2. Salvation by grace is through faith. (I assume you still agree.)
3. This faith is not man's faith but the faith of Jesus Christ. (Now you don't.)
4. Paul was clear in v.1 that man is dead in sins - no faith. (You started to think.)
5. Faith is from "pistin" meaning fidelity. (You are thinking more deeply)
6. Fidelity means "faithfulness to a cause". (I hope it makes sense)
7. Salvation by grace, therefore, is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ in the redemptive work for His people. Compare with Ephesians 3:12 "...boldness and access...through the faith of him (Jesus Christ).
(I pray you would consider this clear truth).
~~ by Dan Hya on September 4, 2013
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sing
Very well stated, Brother Dan!!!
Christ's fidelity!!!! O blessed be the Lord!
what assurance...
what blessedness
what comfort...
what decisiveness...
what effectiveness...
what finality...
How stupid (not being rude, just being plain! stupid means lacking common sense!) of God's children to believe that the salvation by grace is through their FICKLE, FEEBLE, FRAIL, FLEETING faith! Probably they have never been taught otherwise!!!
Why would they substitute the faithfulness/fidelity of Christ with something so inferior???
sing
Another pivotal passage:
Rom 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Prior to verse 21, Paul conclusively proved and demonstrated that all are justly condemned and have no righteousness whatsoever.
Verse 21 declares the provision of righteousness by God Himself for His people.
Righteousness comes by obedience to the law... either by man's own obedience or by the obedience of a substitute. By man's own obedience, there is only condemnation.
The righteousness by God's own provision is by the obedience of Jesus Christ... THAT IS 'by faith of Jesus Christ'.
This phrase 'by faith of Jesus Christ' refers to His faithfulness in rendering perfect obedience to the law in order to secure the righteousness necessary for the justification of His people. That is the context.
We are absolutely sure that that is the meaning because in verse 24 we read, "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus..."
The phrase 'by faith of Jesus Christ' by which God justifies condemned sinners is "the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
The two phrases refer to the same thing... and in the context of God's provision of righteousness in the context of justifying condemned sinners.
Nearly everybody is OBSESSED with their fickle and feeble faith IN Christ... hardly any knows and boasts of the faith OF OF OF Christ.... even though the Scriptures speaks of it so many times.
Of course, that truth is OBLITERATED in all the modern translations. KJ Bible alone preserves the truth of 'by the faith OF Jesus Christ... the FIDELITY/FAITHFULNESS of Christ.
May the Lord open the eyes of many
sing
"6. Fidelity means "faithfulness to a cause". (I hope it makes sense)"
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Lexicon : Strong's G4102 - pistis
πίστις
Transliteration, pistis
Pronunciation: pē'-stēs (Key)
Part of Speech: feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology): From πείθω (G3982)
I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
II. fidelity, faithfulness
1. the character of one who can be relied on.
sing
1. Salvation is by grace. (I believe you agree)
2. Salvation by grace is through faith. (I assume you still agree.)
3. This faith is not man's faith but the faith of Jesus Christ. (Now you don't.)
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Statement 1 EXCLUDES the fable that faith is man's faith, otherwise, it is no longer grace! But many will say, it is not man's faith, but the faith given by God! So they insist, that grace is still maintained!
However, they must admit that the God-given faith must be UTILIZED/EXERCISED by man for salvation to take place... i.e. a man is saved THROUGH faith, i.e. his believing, his faith, his work of believing!!!
Statement 1 EXCLUDES man playing any part in his salvation. By grace means salvation is bestowed by God to a sinner, dead in trespasses and sins, without him doing anything. Anything that he can do is the EFFECT, CONSEQUENCE, and EVIDENCE of the salvation ALREADY freely bestowed... i.e. by grace!
Dan Hya
Very helpful contribution, bro. Sing!
sing
I'm just so delighted to hear another voice stating the wonderful truth... even from a PB. Few PBs understand faith in Eph 2;8 like that. Many are quite against it!
Dan Hya
Thanks for the encouragement, brother.
sing
Thank you, Sir. (I wrote this comment FIVE YEARS later... being reminded by Facebook about the exchanges 5 years ago. It sparked off the following...
Manuel
NO Typical PB as far as I know account that faith from sinners, we are aware of total depravity even inability of believers as in Jn 15:4-5, we are aware that He is the author & finisher of our faith, arising from Covenant of Grace, that believers' faith pertains their conversion & temporal saving. Indeed typical PBs have that view of consistent grace. Just why you said few PBs, there might be few Calvinist PBs who are not PB at all. As I know you're the only one from the Reformed Baptists who had that same view as ours,... just a plain analysis though...
Just wandering why...
sing
Sir, the context is Eph 2:8a. Ask the PBs, through whose faith?
Sir, the context is Eph 2:8a. Ask the PBs, through whose faith?
Manuel
I am a PB, I have understood since I became a PB that "all men have not faith", & naturally that it is that faithfulness of Christ that effected that life in me, and in no sense that my faith in Him had caused this life I had in Him. And this understanding of the " faith of Christ" in Eph. 2:8 is the PB's distinctives, that is it makes PBs different from other denomination, not even the Strict Baptists nowadays, I may challenge to name any one denomination that account that faith in Eph 2:8 as the faith of Christ. All Calvinists, Protestants, Arminians believe otherwise, even you before you corresponded with some PBs in the US...
I may challenge any curious seeker...
sing
You may be assuming a whole lot of things. There are many PBs I know who DENY the faith OF Christ in Eph 2:8.
Speak for yourself, Sir.
Speak for yourself, Sir.
You may want to show that your PB denomination holds to the faith of Christ view for Eph 2:8.
Manuel
Or you have misused the term " many PBs", I surely know Elders believing what the PBs believe in Eph.2:8, such Mike Gowens, David Pyles, Gus Harter, Jeff Winfrey, Dan Hall, Don Farris, Vernon Johnson, Joe Holder, Harold Hunt etc, How many is your many?
What I just want to point out is how come very few PBs believe that distinctive doctrines they had been adhering to since they were known as PB? I am speaking of typical PBs, I have been contending for that truth since then, I have been teaching/preaching that since then. But so sad to know of some "PBs" as you know who believe otherwise, that error may arise from the error of gospel regeneration, or of "saving faith scheme"...
sing
I repeat: You may want to show that your PB denomination holds to the faith of Christ view for Eph 2:8.
Manuel
Or can you name any other denomination that believe this same as PB? Where did you learn such truth from your Reformed View before?
Or where or from whom did you learn that PB view prior to your correspondents with Eld. Mark Thomas & company. I honestly would like to know if there are other groups adhering to such, Bro. Sing. I don't mean to argue, just anxious if there's any aside from PB.
sing
Where did I learn such truth from? I'll disappoint you; it wasn’t from the PBs in this case.
I learned from the King James Bible when I noticed its translation on the faith OF Christ Jesus in not a few passages.
I have noticed that not a few PB converts tend to be MORE PB than those that converted them.
sing
I'm surprised that you just conveniently assume that PB is a denomination and that as a denomination it believes Eph 2:8 speaks of the faith of Christ.
You are too denominational minded and appears to speak as its spokesman.
Speak for yourself would be better.
The popular view I heard from the PBs who care to interact with me is that the faith (Eph 2:8) is the gift given at regeneration. They are quite adamant with that.
Manuel
Thanks for disappointing me... having enlightened to that truth in KJV, for sure, you're not alone in believing such. There are Christians who believe the same as you have found prior to your enlightenment, and that truth you embraced was the more strengthened and confirmed to be biblical than what you previously believe, by further confirming such with whom?
sing
Got to go to a meeting.
Further confirming from individuals like Brother Dan.
Manuel
Thanks for the sharing of thoughts Bro Sing. So happy such exchange.
