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| Arrange it any other way it would be no more grace! |
September 25, 2013 at 10:00 PM
See exchanges here:
See exchanges here:
Which do you choose to believe:
- That God Himself directly applies the eternal salvation, secured by Jesus Christ for His own people, to the beneficiaries, or
- That God applies the eternal salvation to the beneficiaries through the activities of human preachers?
Which way is good news to you? Tell us why.
Is divine grace delivered through human hands still good news or not?
'G R A C E' in man's wobbly hands will be turned into something monstrous!
'G R A C E' in man's wobbly hands will be turned into something monstrous!
Take heed if you trust man's wobbly and filthy hands of handling divine grace in your eternal salvation!!! Take good heed.
Here is an article of faith of the XYZ Sovereign Grace Church.
"We believe the preaching of the Gospel to be the God-ordained means by which the God-ordained end is accomplished; that the Holy Spirit reveals Christ and all spiritual blessings in Him to God's elect and brings them to repentance and faith in Him through the preaching of Christ and Him crucified; that we must with every opportunity and means and in every place afforded us by the providence of God, proclaim the Gospel of God's free and sovereign grace in Christ; that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him."
What do you think of the article of faith?
Pj
I didn't read anything about regeneration in the article, but it seems to be ok.
Zhao
Too humanistic
Sing
Explain please, Teoh. Thanks.
Pj, is this ok with you, "that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him." The whole article is about this!
Adam
Bro Sing, I think the phrase "hear his voice and follow him" is subject to interpretation. One may read it and understand follow him in a sense like "hear the voice of the son of God and live," whereas someone else may understand it to mean to follow him in discipleship.
I would assume they are referring to regeneration in that they say the gospel is the "God-ordained means by which the God-ordained end is accomplished." I reckon a bit more explanation would be fitting.
Pj
It does not explicitly state that "all His sheep will" but that "His sheep will." Further, maybe my understanding is tainted, but that seems to me to be about conversion, not regeneration.
Sing
"that in the Gospel, His sheep will by the Holy Spirit, hear His voice and follow Him."
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Is the living giving voice of Christ heard through the gospel ministry?
That's my question!
Pj
No, that is not how I understand it; but the author of that statement may have.
"In the exercise of the authority which has been entrusted to Him, the Lord Jesus calls to Himself from out of the world, through the ministry of His Word, by His Spirit, those who are given to Him by His Father, so that they may walk before Him in all the ways of obedience which He prescribes to them in His Word. Those who are thus called, He commands to walk together in particular societies or churches, for their mutual edification, and for the due performance of that public worship, which He requires of them in the world." 1689.26.5
Sing
The new school fullerite RBs will take 1689.26.5 as concrete evidence that the old school baptists held to gospel regeneration. How would you respond to that claim?
Pj
Firstly, that the effectual call is already previously addressed in that confession. Secondly, that this is for the regenerate elect to be called not effectually: for that is prerequisite to this; but by the outward ministry of the word.
Robert
Sovereign Grace Baptists are Presbyterians who dunk basically in their theology:)
Only the old Baptists teach and preach the truth about eternal salvation.
Sing
1689.26 is about gathering the effectually called elect into NT churches.
Besides, 1689.20.4 states categorically:
"Although the gospel be the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and is, as such, abundantly sufficient thereunto; yet that men who are dead in trespasses may be born again, quickened or regenerated, there is moreover necessary an effectual insuperable work of the Holy Spirit upon the whole soul, for the producing in them a new spiritual life;(8) without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God.(9)"
"Without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God."
We must not let the new school fullerites hijack the confession of the old school baptists!!! Show them that they believe contrary to what the old school believed!
Pj
***conversion unto God***
Distinct from regeneration!
Sing
Yes, yes, yeeeeeeeeeees!
The ministry of the word has to do with the conversion of God's children unto God, not their quickening out of their native state of death!
The old school fathers were far more logical and sound than the bastards who claim to be their descendants!!!
