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| Three varieties of weeds - all loaded with seeds to multiply themselves. |
A stitch in time saves nine;
Even so, uprooting in time saves forty-nine (7X7)
I observed a sober truth this morning while doing some weeding on a lawn. One common characteristic of these weeds (I say weeds since they don't belong to the lawn - actually they can be useful herbs) is that they multiply fast. All of them produce lots and lots of seeds to reproduce themselves rapidly. So, a little delay and they have sown a great number of seeds onto the ground...
The same is with sins in our lives. Nip it before they take deep root and multiply and RUIN us. For this reason, Christ said with utmost solemnity... Matthew 18:8 "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire."
Note a few things said here:
- The Lord is addressing His disciples, each one personally in the second person singular, i.e. thee and thine.
- Each disciple is called upon to perform the drastic measure on himself.
- Such measures to deal with sins will deliver them from being cast into everlasting fire.
These are things the text plainly says though there are questions that needed to be sorted out.
According to Christ, there are much the disciples can do to avoid everlasting fire, but there is nothing one can do about the eternal lake of fire. Read Rev 20:15
Wells
Question: Do you understand Mt 18:8 to be literal or only a portion of the verse is literal?
Ante
Someone asked: if I my hand offends me and I cut it off, and then my other hand offends me, how do I cut it off?
Wells
Ante... I am trying to understand the author's notion that God's children can go to hell and suffer after death. If we take Jesus's statement as a word picture, then shouldn't we also understand that he is telling us that sinners go to hell so we should avoid sin at all cost?
[I'm curious; why the need to avoid sin at all cost if there is NO POSSIBILITY of God's children ending up in hell - as imagined by many? If that was the case, Jesus had indeed wasted His words warning against something fictional ~ sing]
Sing
I understand Mt 18:8 like this: even if it is a word picture, these must be admitted the matters dealt with a real:
- sins are real,
- the drastic measures needed to deal with sins are real (not the same as literal) measures.
- the consequence of sins undealt with is real.
I'm not sure which part you see as literal and which part non-literal. Share your thought.
From Christ solemn warning to His disciples - yes, He was addressing the disciples, see verse 1 - I conclude that He is warning them about something REAL that can be avoided by their actions, whatever one may think of the everlasting fire spoken of.
I disdain the thought that Christ would waste such solemn words warning the disciples against something that has no real and direct relevance to them. I may be somewhat simple.
Wells
If the warning here and elsewhere is for God's children on how to avoid hell after death, before the judgement day when we will be declared righteous because of Christ and given inheritance into heaven, please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?
Charles
As I understand sheol/hades we can't avoid it after death
There we await the final judgement
Sing
1. Concerning justification, the declaration had legally taken place at the cross, then vitally applied to an elect individually when he is effectual called out of his native state of sin and condemnation, and the blessedness of his justified state is experienced through faith in Jesus Christ.
- On judgment day, it is the vindication of what had happened based solely on the righteousness of Christ. Based solely on Christ's righteousness and blood, they shall be ushered into eternal bliss.
- Christ's work of redemption redeemed the elect from eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. Eternity begins when time ends.
2. I understand from Rev 20, that the hell will be no more at the end of time. That which is everlasting lasts as long as time lasts. It ceases when there is no more time. Hell ends when it delivers up those in it. It shall deliver up all who are in it at the end of time; those among them that have been redeemed by Christ shall and be glorified enter into their eternal inheritance. The rest, whose names were not written in the book of life, to the lake of fire.
There isn't a single time Christ warns His disciples against the lake of fire, but He most solemnly warns them against hell if they don't take drastic measures to deal with their own personal sins.
- Christ's redeeming work SAVES the redeemed from the lake of fire; thus, there is no warning the disciples against the lake of fire.
- I understand that hell or everlasting fire is in the realm of time. But the lake of fire is eternal when the time has ended.
3. "please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?"
- The text states it plain enough what each disciple must do to deal with personal sins in powerful vivid pictures to depict the drastic measures to deal with personal sins.
How can we be sure we won't end up there? Perhaps taking drastic measures dealing with one's personal sins will give a child of God hope of not ending up there. Christ did not waste words warning the disciples.
Just my feeble understanding, it's not popular but makes sense to me. I have been called a heretic by some (PBs) for holding such understanding. So, having another call me so makes little difference! That's how I have understood the relevant Scriptures at the moment. If others have a more consistent view, I'm open to listen and consider.
Charles
at death all that is hidden is revealed, goats and sheep, to the right and to the left.
Am I goat or am I sheep? The earthly shepherds should help each one of us through spiritual discernment and at appropriate times discern and divide us.
There are times (as I know very little about husbandry) that the goats will rule the fold through devouring everything and leaving little for the sheep.
