Saving Faith
Luke 7:50" And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace also in Luke 18:40 "42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee" Based on your understanding of theology are the salvations under consideration eternal? Secondly were the salvations illustrated here by grace? Right division is critical to right understanding!
A brother wrote the above post on "Saving faith", and some exchanges took place.
If you wish to read the complete exchanges, you can find them here.
If you wish to read the complete exchanges, you can find them here.
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The Old School Baptists summarized their understanding of “saving faith” thus:
Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. ( Romans 3:28; Galatians 5:6; James 2:17, 22, 26 )
[If faith is a gift, then all other saving graces worked in a child of God are also gifts. However, the Scriptures DO NOT speak like that. Faith as a gift is a misguided, but popular notion. Faith is a saving grace WORKED by the Spirit of God in the hearts of God's children, those regenerated elect. - sing]
[If faith is a gift, then all other saving graces worked in a child of God are also gifts. However, the Scriptures DO NOT speak like that. Faith as a gift is a misguided, but popular notion. Faith is a saving grace WORKED by the Spirit of God in the hearts of God's children, those regenerated elect. - sing]
The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; by which also, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened. (2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 10:14, 17; Luke 17:5; 1 Peter 2:2; Acts 20:32 )
By this faith a Christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the Word for the authority of God himself, and also apprehendeth an excellency therein above all other writings and all things in the world, as it bears forth the glory of God in his attributes, the excellency of Christ in his nature and offices, and the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit in his workings and operations: and so is enabled to cast his soul upon the truth thus believed; and also acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come; but the principal acts of saving faith have immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, and resting upon him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace. (Acts 24:14; Psalms 27:7-10; Psalms 119:72; 2 Timothy 1:12; John 14:14; Isaiah 66:2; Hebrews 11:13; John 1:12; Acts 16:31; Galatians 2:20; Acts 15:11 )
[The term "saving faith" is used to distinguish it from "historical faith"; saving faith is an effect/fruit of the eternal salvation already bestowed freely by God's grace; saving faith receives and rests in Jesus Christ and His righteousness as the sole ground of one's salvation. Historical faith also believes that there was such a Jewish man named Jesus who lived in the first century. -- sing]
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Sing
"Thy faith hath saved thee... Thy faith hath saved thee..."
Contrast these with these: "by grace ye are saved. ... by grace are ye saved.. ."
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Robert
So they were not saved by grace very interesting perspective! :(
Sing
If you wish to draw that conclusion from the PLAIN Scriptures I presented to you, then that is your liberty. Only remember, I did not make such conclusion.
Robert
Your post seems to imply that!
Sing
My post makes the biblical distinction between grace withOUT works in eternal salvation and grace conditioned on works in temporal salvation.
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Robert
Sing can you demonstrate from Scripture that faith is a work?
Sing
Man's act of believing is WORK, his action. Read Christ's own reply to those who inquired what works God requires of them.John 6:28- 29.
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”29Jesus answered and said unto them,This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Robert
Under consideration Ephesians 2:8 is what kind of salvation either eternal or temporal. Entrance into the Kingdom for a gentile just like Abraham in Romans 4, is justification in the conscience faith in God's faithfulness. Is not a work of man that saves in time that is exactly what Paul is teaching in Romans 4. works are when we use faith and DO something with it like James teaches in James 2:17, true faith trusts God and does something, but faith that justifies the conscience only trusts like Abraham did and it is not a work, as Paul stated in Romans and is repeating in Ephesians 2:8-10. Somehow you imagine that point of view is "Calvinistic" you may be right if I said that is how the creature was eternally saved and that is quite the opposite of what I am saying. Faith is verse 8 of Ephesian 2 is NOT a work.
[sing: If faith in Eph 2:8 is NOT work, then it can’t be the believing act of man! If it is not a work, then the salvation spoken of CANNOT be temporal salvation. Temporal salvation is conditioned upon God’s children working out their OWN salvation through their work of obeying the Father’s will. Phi 2:12 --- sing]
Sing
Man's act of believing is WORK, his action. Read Christ's own reply to those who inquired what works God requires of them.
John 6: 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
They wish to know the work$ God requires of them... Christ points them to the first and foremost work (singular) God requires them to do, THAT IS, believe on Him whom God hath sent, even Christ Himself.
Stephan L
Believing is the manifestation of faith and faith is a gift of God. If it is a gift It can't be a work...so in the passage you quoted the people to whom Jesus was speaking where not born again and couldn't believe see verse 36. They weren't among the people given to Him as He said in verse 37.
Sing
Believing in Jesus Christ is an activity of man, therefore his works.
You chose to believe that those death in trespasses and sins are capable of desiring to do the works of God. I choose to believe otherwise, that is, only God's children can have such desire.
Stephan L
Their desires was not sincere see verse 36, Jesus is saying "But I said unto you, that he also have seen me, and believe not."! The desire or the will is not sufficient in Romans 9 v 16 we read " so then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." The reaction of those Jews proved that there weren't children of God verse 41,42,52,66. I even guess that those people are the same in John 8 from verse 13 to 59. In verse 44 Jesus is calling them children of the devil!...
Sing
You claim to know more than Christ himself. Christ took their inquiry as sincere, and answered accordingly. You are even implying that the Omniscient Jesus would tell those hypocrites, insincere pretenders - still dead in their trespasses and sins - to do the impossible - to believe on Him!
I would leave alone a man with such view of Jesus Christ.
Good bye, sir.
Stephan L
You said those people were children of God and sincere in their request, now you say they are pretenders hypocrites death in sins and trespasses...I don't understand. Good bye man.
Sing
I' m just describing them in the way you wanted - you said they are no less than children of the devil – to show you the absurdity and foolishness of your idea!
Robert
Sing, said this earlier actually biblical quote "29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." notice Christ did not say this is the work you must do? He said this is the work of God not the work God expects of you! There is a difference.
Sing
Robert, please tell, what were the men inquiring, and did Jesus answer their question. Thank you.
Robert
They were asking about the working the works of God this was a question to the prior statement in verse 27 they DID not understand. Jesus was contrasting laboring for literal bread and that meat or food which is knowing Christ that allows us to have that life by experience. That response of Christ was perfectly in line with this is the work of God, The design, purpose and plan is of God alone to the intent His people might believe and rest in Christ without working for that rest.
Sing
Brother Robert, just read these words from the KJV... the question of those inquirer:
"What works shall WE DO, that we might WORK the works of God?"
Is it that hard to ascertain what their inquiry was?
Robert
Sing they were asking about what Jesus had said in the previous verse.
The work of God ie the design purpose and plan is of God that they believe just as Abraham did, that is not a work.
Are you teaching that Paul contradicted Jesus? Paul said trust God for righteousness was NOT a work and yet you say Jesus says it is?
Sing
Jesus Christ said... LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR... WORK WORK WORK...
So, the men wanted to know what works they should do.
What are the workS that God require them to do?
Robert
Paul was using Abraham as an example BEFORE Moses was given the law.
Okay so you are saying Paul was wrong in Romans 4, I now understand! :)
The Labor and work Jesus is contrasting is the seeking not the believing. Read the context.
Sing
Paul was using Abraham as an example to teach the Gentiles believers who were affected by Judaizers that Abraham simply believed - AND did not observe the ceremonial laws BECAUSE there were no ceremonial laws YET - to EXPERIENCE the blessedness of the justification by God's free grace.
Apostle Paul's point: there is NO NEED to observe the ceremonial laws - Abraham is the classic example.
There is no need of you to draw PERVERSE conclusions on my behalf. ;-)
Sing
"The Labor and work Jesus is contrasting is the seeking not the believing. Read the context."
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I think it is quite desperate to make the distinction! Labour is work, and work is some form of labour.
Christ's own word:
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
They LABOURED - went to great length - to seek for Jesus because of their belly, and not for who He is, the Son of God.
Seek him as the Son of God, the One God has sent, that's the work they should be doing... this work is meat that endures unto everlasting life... even when the belly has rotted.
Robert
Right. The seeking He was not contrasting Laboring with believing.
Let's be real clear I am NOT talking about getting eternally saved I am talking about getting saved from a bad or guilty conscience by faith in the finished work of Christ the promised seed, this is not work Romans 4.
Sing
Don't worry, I'm not so unfair to insinuate, and impute such horrid things to you. If I did, I would have stated it in plain words! ;-)
It is NOT about getting saved from a bad or guilty conscience by faith!!! IT IS about EXPERIENCING, by faith, the blessedness of the justified state by God's free grace.... THAT IS the subject.
QUESTION: What did our father Abraham find, Rom 4:1.
ANSWER: The blessedness was experienced by Abraham through faith in the promised seed, WITHOUT the works of the ceremonial law. 4:9
Robert
1 Peter 3:21, it certainly is being saved from a guilty conscience, and the fear of death etc. I think your remark about is unjustified. :(
Sing
You were at Rom 4! Whatever happened!
How is my remark about what is unjustified?
Robert
:) lol. Sing, the unjustified remark is as follows "It is NOT about getting saved from a bad or guilty conscience by faith!!!" as if this is not experiencing the initial aspect of our justified state , You contrast made my remark appear irrelevant. That was unjustified that is what I meant!
Sing
Your remark was made in the context of Romans 4.
No bad or evil conscience there. So, quite out of place.
Robert
Sing, I brought your post over here because I find no fault is what you say: http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/.../three-distinct... That is not where our disagreement ls, it is whether the salvation in verse 8 of Ephesians 2 is temporal, us...See more
Things New and Old: Three Distinct Sets of Contrast in the Biblical Doctrine of Justification
THINGS-NEW-AND-OLD.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY SING LAU
Sing
Then you have not understood the implications of the three sets of distinction!
Robert
:) okay! Romans 4:4 defines work it is the expectation of payment due because of your efforts. As opposed to simply trusting what has been done for you. There is a world of difference between trusting the finished work of Christ and doing anything expecting a paycheck. I suggest you reconsider your position my brother. So used to fighting Calvinist's and arminians you can't even consider the war has been fought with the wrong weapons and now you are fighting the wrong opponent ! ;)
Sing
In Romans 4, apostle Paul is dealing with the HOW a child of God experiences the blessedness of his justified state by God's free grace - is it through the WORK of obeying the ceremonial laws, or through simply believing in the Lord Jesus Christ? How was it with Abraham? What was his experience?
Judaizers were a thorn in the eyes of the infant church from the very beginning.
Three sets of distinction:
1. Obedience of Christ to the law vs. dead man's own obedience to the law : LEGAL justification
2. God's free and sovereign act vs. dead man's act : VITAL justification
3. God's children work of believing in Christ vs. their works of keeping the ceremonial laws : EXPERIENTIAL justification.
GOOD NIGHT.
