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| Did the Apostles fulfill their commission accompanied with great promises? |
On Dec 14, 2007, at 6:02 PM,
Michael wrote:
Hi guys,
To whom was the great commission given? Thanks for your thots...
mighty mouthy
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On Dec 14, 2007, at 10:32 PM,
sing wrote:
Midget Mighty, Mickey Mouthy, whatever MM,
Glad you are around.
If we consider that the ‘great commission’ was given to the apostles WITH specific great promises - apostolic signs and wonders UNIQUE to them only, then we need to conclude that the commission was given specifically to the apostles ONLY, and the Apostles fulfilled it. The apostles accomplished and fulfilled the great commission given to them - they were able to do so because of Christ's specific promise to be with them THROUGH the apostolic signs and wonders.
What about the popular rhetorical question
'Has the Gospel been preached in all the world'?
This question needs to be answered by the words of the apostles themselves, and the Lord's Himself.
Ac 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."
Ro 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went [past tense] into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
Ro 16:26 "But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known [past tense at the point of Apostle Paul writing the epistle to the Romans] to all nations for the obedience of faith."
Col 1:5-6 "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Col 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister."
1Tim 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
The Lord Himself prophesied that the gospel would be preached to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.
'The end' here refers to the end of national Israel. It has served its purpose. The kingdom of heaven has come. The old earthy kingdom of Israel is abolished forever.
That abomination of desolation refers to the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem before its destruction in AD 70.
Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.”
What is the basis of the NT ministers preaching the gospel?
The
basis is certainly not the great commission from the Lord Jesus Christ!
No NT minister of the gospel receive the commission directly from the
Lord, with the promises of signs and miracles following their ministry.
The apostles alone received such a great commission.There is always this funny rebuttal... if the great commission were given to, and fulfilled by the apostles then there would be no further need of preaching! Such idea forgets about all the specific apostolic commands to the pastors and teachers of the NT churches.
The basis for the NT ministers' ministry of preaching and teaching are Apostolic commands, not the ‘great commission.' The ‘great commission’ was given to the apostles, and apostles alone, along with the promises of the signs and miracles. They established the churches, and gave commands to the churches concerning the ministry of the word.
- 2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
- 2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
The apostles COMPLETED the 'great commission.' They DID plant, establish, and teach the NT churches to observe all things whatsoever Christ had commanded them. They did deliver to the saints the most holy faith… through their ministry and their epistles. They did teach ALL NATIONS - by the apostles' and the Lord's definition. The Lord was with them - with miraculous signs and wonders accompanying their unique ministry - to the end of the world, i.e. Jewish world, in AD 70.
(Please note, the most holy faith was delivered to the SAINTS... those whom God have separated from the state of sin and death. Only saints can receive the most holy faith. They must be saints before that body of gospel truth can be delivered and received and embraced by them.)
I believe all the NT was completed before AD 70, i.e. Revelation was written before AD 70.
just a different note from the south seas,
sing
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Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:17 am
Michael wrote:
Actually Sing...on this one...I think I might agree with you...Paul said in Col 1:23 that the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven! And that was past tense in his day. The commission to preach the gospel was not given to the NT church as a body...but to the Apostles...who committed the same to godly men... who would be able to teach others...and so it has come down to us. To make the Great commission applicable to all the church...women, children, young people, etc is to put a burden on them that comes from tradition and a desire to swell the army of..."soul winners" and thus build big churches. Christ had a band of women who ministered unto him, including his mother, He also suffered the little children to come to him and he blessed them.
But when it came to the preaching of the gospel he committed that to his apostles who in turn committed it to others...so in our churches today the ones who are RESPONSIBLE for the spread of the gospel are God called and God sent men. That does not preclude a woman from being a witness to Christ or being a testimony of his grace (The Samaritan woman is an example) but it does relieve the false guilt trip many are on because the gospel has not been committed to them as it has to others who are specifically called and sent to spread it.
God bless all... Help me where I am wrong...I will receive it gladly.
Yours in Him,
MM
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Dec 15, 2007 9:35 am,
Brainy wrote:
Howdy again Mike,
I see that you and Sing agree... and there I was giving Sing a hard time over one note -- I now see he has at least two. :-)
I hope that after this post I am still a Baptist in good standing, but here goes.
It is true that each body of believers that have covenanted together as a local congregation is a church. While almost every local church has unregenerate folk within it's ranks, it is not by design like the Presbys. In that sense, I don't like the idea of the "visible" and "invisible" church. But I do understand that there is a church universal that includes all the members of the New Covenant. I wonder if you see the great commission given only to the local church with the end always being the new convert coming into that local church. And with new converts being mainly the result of the local church's organized evangelism.
The light that I currently have leads to a somewhat different conclusion. Most new converts to the Body of Christ are drawn in through more private instruments. Friendships, coworkers and family -- or any other group in which believers are insiders, are more fruitful ground than organized evangelism by the local church. Observed differences, sacrifices, and humility seen over time are good tools for the preparation of the soil into which the gospel seed falls. Better, IMHO, than a Church service filled with religious people that are strangers to someone whose mind is being turned to eternal things.
But isn't it "the foolishness of preaching" that is the ordained method of evangelism? Indeed Paul says just that. But is the communicating of the Gospel and those truths that frame it just valid from behind a pulpit? In the 16th chapter of Acts and the group of women, which included Lydia, it reads to me like an informal discussion between Paul, Silas, Timothy, and Luke and that group -- taking place in small groups. ("We sat down and spoke to the women who met there" v.13) Now it is clear that Lydia was listening to Paul, but I don't think he was the only speaker.
A forgiven sinner,
Brainy
