Ye must be born again

Marvel not that I said unto thee, 'Ye must be born again.'

Did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he must be born again?
Many translations teach and COPYRIGHT that lie! For example

New International Version (©1984)
You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

English Standard Version (©2001)
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

New Living Translation (©2007)
So don't be surprised when I say, 'You must be born again.'

Now read this, and see the difference!
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

What does your bible tell you what Jesus tell Nicodemus?
- That Nicodemus must be born again, and what he must do to be born again?

Do you know that a wrong translation ends up teaching you LIES on the subject?


Sing F Lau
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
===========
'Thee' and 'thou', 'ye' and 'you' - these are not archaic English. They are PRECISE English. 'Thee' and 'thou' are second person SINGULAR pronouns whereas ''ye' and 'you' are second person PLURAL pronouns. These distinctions are essential to rightly dividing the word of truth.

In saying, 'Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again,' Jesus is declaring to Nicodemus a general statement that men (plural) must be born again... i.e. the absolute necessity of the new birth, without which certain spiritual activities are absolutely impossible.

Jesus is not telling Nicodemus that he (singular) is still dead in trespasses and sins, and that he must be born again.

Sing F Lau
3:1 ¶ There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Can a man who is not born again, i.e. still in his NATIVE STATE of sin and death, be able to have spiritual discernment shown by Nicodemus?

When Nicodemus made such an biblical observation, Jesus responded with an explanation that it is the new birth from above (therefore, immediate and directly by the sovereign activity of God the Spirit) that enables such spiritual perception, seeing the kingdom of God.

Rocky
So what is Lau's translation, then?

Sing F Lau
I don't translate... far from being qualified to attempt such a thing!
If you mean which translation I'm using, it is this.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

Penny
I dunno that I get your distinction.... But are you saying that the other translations read as though Jesus told Nicodemus to be born again? And the KJV reads that Jesus told him that a person must already be born again to see it??

Nick
Since you're talking about proper translations, what Jesus actually said is you must be born from above. "γεννηθη ανωθεν"

Sing F Lau
Don't worry Penny, wait till you know the distinction!
Ask your husband... and if he doesn't know, get him to ask your PB Elder! That way both get to learn the truth together... and the man won't be left behind

Sing F Lau
Nick, do you know the distinction between second person SINGULAR pronoun, and second person PLURAL pronoun?

Can the second birth be from anywhere but from above?

If you insist "γεννηθη ανωθεν" must be translated literally as "born from above" then, none of the translations got it right. And you should very happy with your valid observation.

But don't miss the fact that there is a vast difference in making the translation to read Jesus telling Nicodemus that he must be born again, and Jesus informing Nicodemus the truth of the absolute necessity of the new birth.

Cheri
"Ye" translates into "Y'all". ;-)

Penny
Sorry Sing, I didn't realize your posts or the gospel was for men only.

Sing F Lau
Penny, you don't sound sorry for the figment of your own imaginations .
No, my posts are clearly for all - 'public'. Christ's gospel is intended for all sorts too - both gender of all ages.

But I don't have pleasure to 'argue' with women like you. So, if you can't get the distinction or the VAST difference between second person singular and the second person plural, I suggest you ask your husband. So, get the distinction sorted out, then continue in the discussion.

If you are offended at this simple direction, then this place is not suited for you.

Penny
I was just checking if I understood you correctly. It's not that I'm offended... I just don't understand why you would post something and then instead of answering questions about it... tell me to talk to my husband. How is my husband suppose to know what you are thinking??

Sing F Lau
No, ask your husband the distinction which you say you dunno. That way you husband will also end up learning what you are trying to learn! Both grow together! That's a good piece of advice...

Lacay
So the Lord is just informing nicodemus the truth of absolute necessity of the new birth and not commanding him to be born anew

Cheri
Poor ole Nicodemus. I often wonder how frazzled his brain must have felt when Jesus told him those things. I really feel that he was indeed a child of God... he was just mentally leaning into the traditions of men, and had to learn that his salvation is of the LORD.

I really like him, too. He didn't have any ulterior motives, or show guile and cunning, or try to trap the LORD. He came asking sincere questions himself, seeking. I love to think of Nicodemus walking and talking with the LORD, and I often wonder about The Moment when full realization finally struck him---what a glorious thing! I have a happy hope in Christ that, someday, I might be honored to shake ole Nick's hand.

Sing F Lau
I really like him too... he humbled himself and came to learn from the Lord Jesus Christ. So many other Pharisees and rulers of the Jews were so proud and haughty, despising Jesus, a rural unlearned bumpkin, in their eyes. But Nicodemus came acknowledging Jesus as having come from God... "Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him," this is a momentous confession from a Pharisee!!!

Nick
Another place this important distinction shows up is in 1 Corinthians 12:27, where Paul says: "Now ye [collectively, not individually] are the body of Christ...." Many people think that they, themselves, are the Body of Christ, but no, it's the entire church.

Also Luke 13:3 " I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
 
This is one reason I still like the KJV. It's not that the English is inspired, but it sure is accurate if you know the English language. All the "-eth" endings indicate present tense! English, when properly used, can be almost as meticulous as Greek.

Pj
This is good.

Sing F Lau
Nick could you elaborate on what you wish to say with Luke 13:3, please. To whom were the word addressed, and what is the likewise perishing spoken of? Thanks.

Pj
What does it mean, "likewise"?

Charles
I am not a greek scholar, at all, but I am ceratin that the AmeriKan interpretation of the application of John 3:16 is that a sinner is given a command to be born again and the church's instructions are to go make people born again and this has to fly into the face of the text that says You MUST be born again -there is logically no basis for any command for anyone to be born. It is the equivalent of lifting your self off the ground by pulling on your bootlaces! It is akin to the obscene phrase I hear at work by urban scholars who often are more adept than greek scholars at expressing themselves, the phrase "go f**k yourself" or as the Urban Didtionary has it "go f**k yourself with a rusty screwdriver".

There are times I would like to scream that to the top of my voice from the sidewalk of a very big Southern Baptist Church. I would be arrested for certain in AmeriKa for obscenity laws without any consideration to the truth to the words I screamed!

Is it too early in the morning for that sarcasm??? maybe another cup of coffee will do!

Haven't the scholars done the same thing with Mt 28:19 changing teach with disciple? The word teach does not contain the strength of "make disciples" The new birth cannot be taught but in "making disciples" the command to be born again is realized! thoughts?

Sing F Lau
Pj, "likewise" means in a similar manner. Unless the Jews repent they will perish likewise... their blood shall be shed in the similar manner... by the Romans!
But so many pervert this passage to teach eternal salvation through repentance!!!

Sing F Lau
Soldier Charles, don't ever let the elitists cheat you of your birth right to rightly dividing the word of truth without being a Greek scholar! Scriptures is SELF-INTERPRETING, and a reliable translation shall lead you into all truth.

With or WITHOUT Greek,
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Many great Greek scholars are radical Arminians!
Extra cups of coffee may be more helpful than mastery of Greek

Charles
here I raise my "coffee cup"

Bill
Amen, Brother Sing!

Pj
Exactly my point, Bro. Sing!

Johnny
@Sing. It sure is. That is how, the simple-minded and the most advanced thinker and reader, can understand truth from the same text. But, to the "born again," thing, human effort has NOTHING to do with the SPIRITUAL birth, of "born again." Not the ...See More

Sing F Lau
Johnny, WHAT sure is? I need to follow what you are saying.

Johnny
@Sing. I am POSITIVELY your comment beginning with the world "Soldier," restating the freedom God has given, to ANY MAN, who is in possession of the Word of God, to read or hear of the words in it, understand it, and pray for understanding. Further, if the prayer is sincere, according to that Word of God (for the RIGHT reason, and prayed in faith believing that God will answer - as He promised), then, ANY MAN in the physical condition of righteousness, has the Word of God in his heart, has God in his Heart through the Holy Spirit, and the spiritual relationship with God. REGARDLESS of where he is practically a blithering idiot or a PhD having knowledge of every language of Biblical times and analysis skiill to humanly understand it. If it is up to man, to change the beliefs developed by God through another man's understanding AND PRAYER, then, it can be said, that MAN saves, not GOD. Most importantly, the scripture "Search the scriptures, to see that what is taught is truth," is to all our brothers and sisters, so that when a teaching, apart from one's believe, is presented, the individual and God, are making the mental choice, to change views. It is all GOD.