When Calvinists ask, "Are Arminian believers saved?'...

When Calvinists ask, "Are Arminian believers saved?"

I often hear some Calvinists ask this question, rhetorically, 'Are Arminian believers saved?' What do you think of folks who ask such a question?

When Calvinists ask, "Are Arminian believers saved?"- what does that question reveal what the Calvinists believe how they themselves are saved?
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The following exchanges took place:
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Charles Page

they're stupid!

Matthew Pasalic
I know of some Calvinists who believe that only Calvinists are genuine believers. Others would claim differently. It really would depend upon the Arminian believer. I do believe that Calvinism is synonymous with basic Bible-believing Christianity.

Charles Page
Are hypo-Calvinist saved? Can John MacArthur get regenerated under his belief system?

Matthew Pasalic
Maybe not stupid, but legalistic.

Sing F Lau
Wherein lies their stupidity, Charles Page?

Wherein lies their legalism, Matthew Pasalic?

Please explain... I am all ears!

Matthew Pasalic
There are Arminians who believe in the essential doctrines of the faith. The issue as to how they arrived at the point of salvation is what is under debate. They contend that they came to Christ by their own free will. Yet, wouldn't they believe that God gave them that very free will in which to accept Him?

There are, in my view, four different types of folks in the world. There are those who are not saved and they know that they lack salvation. There are those who are saved and they truly know that they are. There are those who believe that they are saved and yet they are not. And there are those who may in fact be saved and yet not have the knowledge or understanding. Of course, when it all comes down to it, there are only two types...the saved and the lost.

Stephen Green
We all start off Arminian and after study of scripture you end up Calvinist. You will know them by their fruits. As a Calvinistic believer, I'd rather fellowship with an Arminian on fire for God than a dead Calvinist. I have noticed how Arminians have a real hatred for Calvinistic teaching when it comes to the salvation of All men they fall down on God's sovereignty in saving His people from their sins. Yet if you were to preach a Calvinistic sermon to a group of Arminians They'll shout Amen. As Spurgeon did. Mathew makes a good point.

Matthew Pasalic
The Calvinist evangelist George Whitfield had much respect for the Wesley brothers. The Wesleys were very Arminian, but Christians.

Sing F Lau

No one has to start off an Arminian. A man is an Arminian through and through by nature... one who believes his salvation is a synergistic effort by himself with god's help!

That characteristic is at the core of every religion invented by man... the same when they corrupt the religion revealed by God!

It was Wesley who said to Whitefield, 'Your God is my devil.'

I'm neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist. I'm an old school baptist.

Stephen Green

In our own eyes and belief at the time God saves us and when we have been regenerated by the spirit our sinful nature wants to take credit for this because we ­know no better After study of scripture we come to the knowledge that salvation is all of the Lord and none of us .That's what I mean by we all start off Arminian

Sing F Lau

Well, I WAS a RB Calvinist for nearly 20 years... found that it has too much contradictions and deficiencies within it.

Calvinism fails to rightly divide the word of truth with regard to eternal salvation and temporal salvation, thus ending up with synergism in its understanding of eternal salvation... promoting gospel regeneration, sola fideism, etc.

Calvinism fails to recognize the multifaceted nature of salvation, nor distinguish the distinct aspects of it.... thus confounding grace with works...

Sing F Lau

Calvinists rave and rant all day that salvation is all of the Lord and none of us... and yet they insist that there must be preaching otherwise there would be no regeneration... and yet they insist that they are justified by God conditioned upon their work of believing!

Calvinists are no more consistent that the Arminians they despised!

Stephen Green

I would have to disagree. Calvinism leads to monergism, which is a God-centered salvation. Whereas Arminianism leads to synergism being man centred I believe Calvinism gives God all the glory

I don't despise Armenians I've found its the other way around

Sing F Lau

The truth is, Calvinism is HALF-BAKED monergism... just like Arminianism's synergism. It is obvious to all who have eyes to see!

Calvinists despise the Arminians... they just dismiss the Arminians as their intellectual inferiors... as brainless inconsistent dummies. They may even question the salvation of those Arminian believers. Calvinists themselves are not that consistent... I have met and interacted with many... and when they cannot reconcile their inconsistencies, they just dismiss me as a heretic!

Robert Beavan

The root of Salvation, which is Christ has been dismissed in this debate. The Abrahamic Covenant, of Works in the Old Testament and of Grace in the New Testament has also been unmentioned. Who did Christ come to Save? His people.

Romans 11 v 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." we know these people are the 'whosoever', mentioned in Romans Chapter 10. Maybe we think are they just Jewish? We see in Galatians that if they be Christ's then they are of the Covenant. "Chapter 3 v 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." How then do these people enter into the Covenant of Grace by Faith in Jesus Christ Alone,

"Romans 4 v 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

This is our Covenant together my beloved, we are his seed, and how are we chosen "Ephesians 2 v 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Amen.

Jane Yue 

I would like to learn more. Can you please tell me the differences between a Calvinist and Arminian? Are the views of Calvinist, view of Arminian and the will of God align His will with God's will? Thanks!

Robert Beavan 

Hi Jane Yue, check this out, http://calvinistcorner.com/tulip

More study, https://www.learnreligions.com/calvinism-vs-arminianism-700526

God’s Sovereignty
Calvinism - God's sovereignty is unconditional, unlimited, and absolute. All things are predetermined by the good pleasure of God's will. God foreknew because of his own planning.

Arminianism - God has limited his control in correspondence with man's freedom and response. God's decrees are associated with his foreknowledge of man's response.

Man's Depravity

Calvinism - Because of the Fall, man is totally depraved and dead in his sin. Man is unable to save himself and, therefore, God must initiate salvation.

Arminianism - Because of the Fall, man has inherited a corrupted, depraved nature. Through "prevenient grace," God removed the guilt of Adam's sin. Prevenient grace is defined as the preparatory work of the Holy Spirit, given to all, enabling a person to respond to God's call of salvation.

Election
Calvinism - Before the foundation of the world, God unconditionally chose some to be saved. Election has nothing to do with man's future response.

Arminianism - Election is based on God's foreknowledge of those who would believe in him through faith. In other words, God elected those who would choose him of their own free will. Conditional election is based on man's response.

Christ's Atonement

Calvinism - Jesus Christ died to save only those who were given to him (elected) by the Father in eternity past. Since Christ did not die for everyone, but only for the elect, his atonement is wholly successful.

Arminianism - Christ died for everyone. The Savior's atoning death provided the means of salvation for the entire human race. Christ's atonement, however, is effective only for those who believe.

Grace

Irresistible Grace

Calvinism - While God extends his common grace to all mankind, it is not sufficient to save anyone. Only God's irresistible grace can draw the elect to salvation and make a person willing to respond. This grace cannot be obstructed or resisted.

Arminianism - Through the preparatory (prevenient) grace given to all by the Holy Spirit, man is able to cooperate with God and respond in faith to salvation. Through prevenient grace, God removed the effects of Adam's sin. Because of "free will" men are also able to resist God's grace.

Man's Will

Calvinism - All men are totally depraved, and this depravity extends to the entire person, including the will. Except for God's irresistible grace, men are entirely incapable of responding to God on their own.

Arminianism - Because prevenient grace is given to all men by the Holy Spirit, and this grace extends to the entire person, all people have free will.

Perseverance

Calvinism - Believers will persevere in salvation because God will see to it that none will be lost. Believers are secure in the faith because God will finish the work he began.

Arminianism - By the exercise of free will, believers can turn away or fall away from grace and lose their salvation.

It's important to note that all of the doctrinal points in both theological positions have a biblical foundation, which is why the debate has been so divisive throughout church history.

Christian denominations disagree over which points are correct, rejecting all or some of either system of theology, leaving most believers with a mixed perspective. Because both Calvinism and Arminianism deal with concepts that go far beyond human comprehension, the debate is certain to continue as finite beings try to explain an infinitely mysterious God.

Stephen Green

Just one thing Robert surely the covenant of works was between God and Adam and Eve after the fall God made a new covenant one of grace knowing that no man could ever keep his side of the covenant due to sin and the depraved nature that man now inherit ed through Adam

Charles Page

Sing, the Calvinist of all people know better than assume that Arminians are saved by confession or profession. The questions assumes that the Arminians make a false profession of believer's faith and so are not saved.

They of all people should follow their own tenets of Calvinism and understand the Biblical process. They fall from the same tree as their Arminian cousins.

Sing F Lau

Robert Connolly Beavan @ The root of Salvation, which is Christ has been dismissed in this debate. The Abrahamic Covenant, of Works in the Old Testament and of Grace in the New Testament has also been unmentioned.

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Who has dismissed Christ? And why do we need to mention those things?

You went blah blah blah a whole lots of things and said nothing about the question: "Are Arminian believers saved?"

The question is NOT NOT NOT 'what is Calvinism?'

Keep to the subject, please.

Thanks.

Sing F Lau
Robert Connolly Beavan @ Calvinism - Believers will persevere in salvation because God will see to it that none will be lost. Believers are secure in the faith because God will finish the work he began.

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What does it mean - 'believers will persevere in salvation'? Kindly explain.

Sing F Lau

Robert Connolly Beavan, in your first comment, you quoted Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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By grace are ye saved through faith...

My simple question to you: through WHOSE faith?

Both Calvinists and the Arminians insist it is THROUGH their faith in Jesus Christ.

What about you?

Sing F Lau

When Calvinists ask, "Are Arminian believers saved' - what does that question reveal what the Calvinists believe and how they themselves are saved?

Jane Yue

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" - 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJB)

Before Calvinists asked the question, "Are Arminian believers saved," they should first "examine" themselves if the faith is from God, or from themselves, and if their question is from themselves, or from the Holy Ghost.

Whose faith? Faith comes from the LORD! "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." - Romans 10: 17 (KJB). The LORD saved us through faith in Him.

Robert Beavan

Sing F Lau my point was that Abraham is the Father of the Faithful whether Arminian or Calvinist in doctrine. Imputed Faith, not mine, a Gift of God to me. It is by this Faith we enter into the Covenant of Grace or adopted into. Chosen, elected to be convinced by the Gospel. Faith comes by hearing the word which is His Holy Spirit's convincer, among other things. Is an Arminian dead in trespasses and sins, NO, their doctrine is misinterpreted, they merely haven't been enlightened to this area of Saving Faith, or some aren't able to understand it. The Elect are all Calvinist.

Robert Beavan

Stephen Green, though yes the Law of Moses, the ten commandments given by our Heavenly Father were not ascribed to the Philistines, they were relevant. In the earlier days God used men such as Noah, still mankind was judged and drown in the flood. Remember Stephen how Noah and his family were Saved. Yet, this people I speak of come from a disobedient generation and Jacob being Israel still was in the Covenant of Works which could be and was broken, no man could keep it. When Jesus Christ died for our Sins, the Covenant of Grace was established because the Covenant of Works had been replaced. Titus 3 v 5. The Law was fulfilled, the once and for all penalty paid for. Adam brought death on all of us, by One Christ we all are made free. The Abrahamic Covenant runs parallel to the two Covenants of Works and Grace, for the Faithful lived in the Old Testament and in the New. Gal 3 v 29. Yet even before Abraham's promise from our Heavenly Father, our God saw pleasure in receiving Able's Offering and refusing Kane's. God loved us in that He gave His Son to die for us, the Elect, Abraham's Seed, the Bride of Christ, the dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam's disobedience in the Garden of Eden and now the Eternally Secure because of Christ's death and resurrection. God is Sovereign, God's Will always prevails over man's. Amen.

Sing F Lau

Robert Connolly Beavan @ "The Elect are all Calvinist."

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Major premise: The Elect are all Calvinist.

Minor premise: The Arminians are not Calvinist.

Conclusion: There are no elect among the Arminians.

Thanks. That's quite typical view of logical Calvinists

Sing F Lau 

Robert Connolly Beavan,

You believe in 'imputed faith'?

What's that? Where do you find such fable?

Robert Beavan

If you read the Bible quotations I placed on your post you'll understand. Here goes, I'll quote it differently. Romans 4 v 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." this is how Faith is imputed for it was not by the law. The Covenant of Grace is entered into by Faith in Jesus Christ, which is a Gift of the Holy Spirit. So too those whom God counted Righteous because of imputed Faith under the law in the Covenant of Works.

Sing F Lau

Do you find the imputation of faith here?

Whose faith imputed to who?

And you entered the covenant of grace by your faith in Jesus Christ? Really?

Unless God HAS FIRST put you into the covenant of grace, will you be able to believe?

Robert Beavan

Remember Faith comes by hearing the Word. Without the Word, God can still bring His Faithful seed to a place where they will hear the Gospel message and find His Word to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. To say someone accidentally walked into a mission tent, heard the Gospel and got Saved without any participation in these circumstances from God our Father, is hokem, folly and devoid of Providential reality.
[Mr Beavan is a hardcore gospel-regenerationist!]

Robert Beavan
How many Gentiles were in the Covenant of Works? But, now, many Gentiles are in the Covenant of Grace. What? Do you say then that Gentiles are not truly of Abraham's Faithful seed, HELLO what's this Sing F Lau?
Galatians 3 v . 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Robert Beavan
How many Arminians believe they were numbered in the stars in Heaven, before Abraham eyes, as God our Father promised us, brother? Many will, yet if you say that they had no choice in this Faithful promise, and we're predestination stars, already foreknew. They just can't accept it, those who do then grasp Election and hence Calvinism leads to Monergism.

Sing F Lau 

Let me ask you a very simple question... and answer it please... don't drift around.

Since faith comes by hearing, in what kind of people can the preaching of the gospel brings/draw forth faith?

Those ALREADY effectually called to grace and salvation, or those still dead in trespasses and sins? Or is there a third group you want to suggest?

Robert Beavan
Before Pentecost John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit within his mother's womb. Was he born into Sin? Was he dead in trespasses and sins? ANSWER, He was quickened within His mother's womb. Saved therein. What about the dying thief on the cross? Was he dead in trespasses and sins before being effectually Saved by Faith in Christ Alone?

Robert Beavan

The Flesh decides does it? Or does our Heavenly Father quicken those who are dead in trespassess and sins because of Adam's disobedience in the Garden unto Eternal Life through Jesus Christ as promised to Abraham, we being Gentile. Imputed Righteousness as Faith in Jesus Christ which is a Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Sing F Lau
'Effectually saved by faith in Christ alone'?

What gibberish are you foaming?

I am getting weary of all the meaningless shibboleths.

Faith in Christ is an effect of salvation ALREADY freely bestowed upon a man dead in trespasses and sin.

How on earth can an effect of salvation be the means of the same salvation.

Unless you can speak some sense... you would do well to hold your peace!!!

Robert Beavan

22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Robert Beavan
How is Spiritual Warfare possible when you disqualify the flesh? You need to read more on Eternal Security? By your thinking the Apostle Peter was not a disciple because how could he deny Jesus three times, which he was forewarned of. Surely he wouldn't have, if his knowledge were enough to Save him.

Robert Beavan 

You actually believe without evidence God's people are randomly choosing to believe or leave Him. I'm afraid your unscriptural approach to God's Sovereignty leaves me astounded.

Sing F Lau
Robert, I fear you know next to NOTHING what I actually believe... and you just go blah blah blah. I am surprised.

Stop raving, slow down a bit, think a lot, then comment again...

Take a look here:

https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html  Things New and Old: Saved by grace through faith – whose faith?

Sing F Lau

Robert Connolly Beavan, let me spell it out clearly for you.

A man is first saved by God... this salvation by God's free grace gives him the ability to know spiritual things. God already saved him when he knew NOTHING... when he was incapable of knowing nor discerning anything of the Spirit of God...

One's eternal salvation is wholly and solely by God's free grace, not conditioned upon any degree of the knowledge of the truth.

The Calvinists doubt the Arminian believers are saved because of their woefully deficient knowledge of the truth.

The same 'sword' will ALSO slice the Calvinists to shreds... because in some very important doctrines, the Calvinists do not differ from their cousins Arminians.

Robin Walenceus

I think they expect the discernment and wisdom of man to be greater than it is.

Robert Beavan

Sing F Lau for your intellectual ability to read clear proof of God's Sovereignty as your quote, 'blah blah blah', is like something from a comedy show of your own making. How can the Westminster Confession of Faith and other Confessions based on the Five Points of Calvinism be torn to shreds by the Bible which supports them? Your poor understanding of Biblical truth would only be able to support any argument between these two doctrines. The Bible clearly supports the Calvinist doctrine. Maybe you as a Christian don't know whose Word you've and what Faith came from who, but your diatribe pseudo nonsense has no weight against Scripture.

Robert Beavan

Please act like a teacher of the Word that your Faith came from and stop saying, 'blah blah blah' to my comments. If I were you I'd study a real Baptist Minister called John Gill. Get with program light weight. God Bless.

Robert Beavan

Finally, the Particular Baptists would shun you as a heretic, for your lack of conviction or support for the doctrine of Calvinism, yet you claim to be old school Baptist, you may be a saved brother but your idea or concept of Salvation draws one into doctrinal confusion.

Sing F Lau

Robert Connolly Beavan, just what do you know about the WCF. I have proven to many that present-day Calvinism is NEW SCHOOL Calvinism, and has departed from the Calvinism of the WCF...

Robert Beavan

I may have thought God's Sovereignty was more important than a doctrine, don't you?

[p/s You are an idiot. The question is not “Is God’s Sovereignty more important than a doctrine. The question is - When Calvinists ask, "Are Arminian believers saved?",- what does that question reveal what do the Calvinists believe how they themselves are saved?

You went blah blah blah defending Calvinism from the start!

Robert Cook Sr.

This is a good discussion I pray it bears fruit, I do believe that there is a limit to what regenerated child of grace will believe, based on Mathew 24:24 and Rev 13:8 but how far that goes I do not know except that they will not love their sin.

Sing F Lau

Robert C Beavan has been shown the door. He accused me of removing his comments... and insist so despite the fact that they are ALL STILL here. I believe he looked in the wrong place.