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| Do you perceive the vast difference between "thrones WERE CAST DOWN" and "thrones WERE PUT IN PLACE"? |
By Will Kinney
Daniel 7:9 KJB - "I beheld till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire."
NKJV - "I watched till thrones WERE PUT IN PLACE, and the Ancient of Days was seated..."
"till thrones WERE CAST DOWN" is the reading of the KJB, the 1936 Jewish translation of Hebrew Publishing Comany, Young's 1898 - "HAVE BEEN THROWN DOWN", Websters 1833 translation, KJV 21st Century Version 1994, J.P. Green's Literal Translation 2004, and the Third Millennium bible 1998.
Other English Bibles that also tell us "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN" are the Revised Webster's 1995 (Larry Pierce), The Word of Yah 1993, the Bond Slave Version 2009, the Hebraic Transliteration Scipture 2010 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", The Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, the Hebraic Roots Bible 2012 - "till thrones were CAST DOWN", Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", Conservative Bible 2011, The Holy Bible, Modern English Version 2014 - "until the thrones WERE CAST DOWN"
The Online Interlinear Hebrew - Greek 2010 (André de Mol) says: "I was perceiving until that the thrones WERE HEAVED". A little awkward, but it give the sense found in the KJB.
However the RV, ASV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV and RSV say: "I beheld till the thrones were SET UP (NASB) or PUT IN PLACE (NKJV, ESV, NIV)", the very opposite. Both readings cannot be correct at the same time. Not all "bibles" teach the same thing.
Other bible versions previous to the KJB also were similar to the NKJV, NIV, NASB. The Geneva bible and Bishops's bible said "thrones WERE SET UP". So this was a very deliberate change made to the previous translations by the King James Bible translators.
The Catholic Connection All Catholic bibles read that the thrones "WERE SET UP" or "WERE PLACED". This includes the Douay-Rheims 1610, Douay 1950, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985. The Jehovah Witness New World Translation also reads: "until there were thrones PLACED."
The verb in question here in Daniel 7:9 is in the Chaldean language and it is used very often in the book of Daniel. It is found 11 times in the book of Daniel and every time in the KJB it is translated as either "TO CAST" or "to CAST DOWN".
We see it in Daniel 3:24 "Did we not CAST three men bound into the midst of the fire?" (See also verses 3:6, 11, 15, 21, 23.
And it is used in chapter 6 in verses 7, 13, 16 and 24. "Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and CAST him into the den of lions."
As usual, the commentaries are all over the place. What one affirms, another just as emphatically denies. So it is with the different versions. But here are some that support the KJB reading of "thrones WERE CAST DOWN"
Adam Clarke commentary - "The thrones were CAST DOWN - דמיו might be translated erected, so the Vulgate, positi sunt, and so all the versions; but that OURS IS THE PROPER TRANSLATION, is sufficiently evident from Daniel 3:6, Daniel 3:16, Daniel 3:20; Daniel 6:17, etc.; WHERE THE ORIGINAL WORD CAN BE USED IN NO OTHER SENSE THAT THAT OF THROWING OR CASTING DOWN."
John Gill remarks in his commentary: "Verse 9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down,.... On which the governors of the above monarchies sat; and those of the ten kings, signified by the ten horns; and also that of the little horn. The prophet kept looking on the objects before him, till he in his dream, and the visions of the night, SAW ALL THOSE EMPIRES AND KINGDOMS DEMOLISHED, AND ALL RULE, POWER, AND AUTHORITY, PUT DOWN, and way made for the glorious kingdom of the Messiah, and his saints with him; TO THIS SENSE ABEN EZRA, SAADIAH, AND JAXCHIADES, INTERPRET THE WORD USED; but the Septuagint, Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Arabic versions, render it, "until the thrones were set up"; for the judges to sit upon to try, judge, and condemn the four beasts or monarchies; in order to make way for the kingdom of the Son of man to take place in the spirituality and glory of it."
John Wesley notes: "Verse 9. The thrones - THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD WERE DESTROYED BY GOD the king, and judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal deity.
Matthew Poole’s Commentary - “thrones cast down must be meant THE KINGDOMES OF THIS WORLD, DESTROYED BY CHRIST the King and Judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal Deity”
https://www.facebook.com/willjkinney/posts/10153045241668841?fref=nf&pnref=story
"till thrones WERE CAST DOWN" is the reading of the KJB, the 1936 Jewish translation of Hebrew Publishing Comany, Young's 1898 - "HAVE BEEN THROWN DOWN", Websters 1833 translation, KJV 21st Century Version 1994, J.P. Green's Literal Translation 2004, and the Third Millennium bible 1998.
Other English Bibles that also tell us "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN" are the Revised Webster's 1995 (Larry Pierce), The Word of Yah 1993, the Bond Slave Version 2009, the Hebraic Transliteration Scipture 2010 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", The Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, the Hebraic Roots Bible 2012 - "till thrones were CAST DOWN", Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011 - "till the thrones WERE CAST DOWN", Conservative Bible 2011, The Holy Bible, Modern English Version 2014 - "until the thrones WERE CAST DOWN"
The Online Interlinear Hebrew - Greek 2010 (André de Mol) says: "I was perceiving until that the thrones WERE HEAVED". A little awkward, but it give the sense found in the KJB.
However the RV, ASV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV and RSV say: "I beheld till the thrones were SET UP (NASB) or PUT IN PLACE (NKJV, ESV, NIV)", the very opposite. Both readings cannot be correct at the same time. Not all "bibles" teach the same thing.
Other bible versions previous to the KJB also were similar to the NKJV, NIV, NASB. The Geneva bible and Bishops's bible said "thrones WERE SET UP". So this was a very deliberate change made to the previous translations by the King James Bible translators.
The Catholic Connection All Catholic bibles read that the thrones "WERE SET UP" or "WERE PLACED". This includes the Douay-Rheims 1610, Douay 1950, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985. The Jehovah Witness New World Translation also reads: "until there were thrones PLACED."
The verb in question here in Daniel 7:9 is in the Chaldean language and it is used very often in the book of Daniel. It is found 11 times in the book of Daniel and every time in the KJB it is translated as either "TO CAST" or "to CAST DOWN".
We see it in Daniel 3:24 "Did we not CAST three men bound into the midst of the fire?" (See also verses 3:6, 11, 15, 21, 23.
And it is used in chapter 6 in verses 7, 13, 16 and 24. "Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and CAST him into the den of lions."
As usual, the commentaries are all over the place. What one affirms, another just as emphatically denies. So it is with the different versions. But here are some that support the KJB reading of "thrones WERE CAST DOWN"
Adam Clarke commentary - "The thrones were CAST DOWN - דמיו might be translated erected, so the Vulgate, positi sunt, and so all the versions; but that OURS IS THE PROPER TRANSLATION, is sufficiently evident from Daniel 3:6, Daniel 3:16, Daniel 3:20; Daniel 6:17, etc.; WHERE THE ORIGINAL WORD CAN BE USED IN NO OTHER SENSE THAT THAT OF THROWING OR CASTING DOWN."
John Gill remarks in his commentary: "Verse 9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down,.... On which the governors of the above monarchies sat; and those of the ten kings, signified by the ten horns; and also that of the little horn. The prophet kept looking on the objects before him, till he in his dream, and the visions of the night, SAW ALL THOSE EMPIRES AND KINGDOMS DEMOLISHED, AND ALL RULE, POWER, AND AUTHORITY, PUT DOWN, and way made for the glorious kingdom of the Messiah, and his saints with him; TO THIS SENSE ABEN EZRA, SAADIAH, AND JAXCHIADES, INTERPRET THE WORD USED; but the Septuagint, Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Arabic versions, render it, "until the thrones were set up"; for the judges to sit upon to try, judge, and condemn the four beasts or monarchies; in order to make way for the kingdom of the Son of man to take place in the spirituality and glory of it."
John Wesley notes: "Verse 9. The thrones - THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD WERE DESTROYED BY GOD the king, and judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal deity.
Matthew Poole’s Commentary - “thrones cast down must be meant THE KINGDOMES OF THIS WORLD, DESTROYED BY CHRIST the King and Judge of all, called the Ancient of days, because of his eternal Deity”
https://www.facebook.com/willjkinney/posts/10153045241668841?fref=nf&pnref=story
