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| Can you distinguish the bright yellow tulip from the dark purple ones? |
Biblical distinction is the essence
of sound theology
Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye
saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God..."
Is the salvation by the grace of
God...
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
Which is spoken of in Eph 2:8?
Is it saying:
- For by grace are ye saved through your faith in Christ, or
- For by grace are ye saved through the faith of Christ?
Please give me a simple and direct
answer, without the so called deep analysis, the reformed shibboleth, or the
deformed jargons. Please, I have heard enough of them!
If you are capable of that - just a
simple answer.
Thanks.
Sing F Lau
Have the gospel truth of "BY/THROUGH THE FAITH Jesus Christ" ever registered with you?
You will never learn that precious truth if you don't read and learn from the KJ Translation of God's word. There are perVersions.
Rom 3:22 - "BY FAITH OF..."
Even the righteousness of God which is BY FAITH OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.
Gal 2:16 - "BY THE FAITH OF... BY THE FAITH OF..."
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but BY THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified BY THE FAITH OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Phl 3:9 - "THROUGH THE FAITH OF..."
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is THROUGH THE FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
Have the gospel truth of "BY/THROUGH THE FAITH Jesus Christ" ever registered with you?
You will never learn that precious truth if you don't read and learn from the KJ Translation of God's word. There are perVersions.
Rom 3:22 - "BY FAITH OF..."
Even the righteousness of God which is BY FAITH OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.
Gal 2:16 - "BY THE FAITH OF... BY THE FAITH OF..."
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but BY THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified BY THE FAITH OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Phl 3:9 - "THROUGH THE FAITH OF..."
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is THROUGH THE FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
Danny
The context of Ephesians chapter 2
does not in anyway suggest or imply that it is man's faith.
Linda
Dan, the faith we have is the faith
that we have been given from above. We have no faith of our own.
Danny
I couldn't agree more, Sis. Linda. I
believe the point Bro. Sing wants to make is not the "origin of
faith" but "by whose faith" we have been saved as Eph.2:8-9
teaches.
Linda
Dan, they are one and the same
thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD Almighty.
Julio
Faith of the Savior..Jesus Christ,
the author and finisher of man's faith.
Danny
No, they are not. Man's faith from
God is not causative of his salvation.
Christ's faith or faithfulness in the redemptive work is.
Christ's faith saves.
Man's faith is for pleasing God, for without it, it is impossible to please God.
If you believe they are one and the same, Bro. Sing's question necessitates the distinction.
Christ's faith or faithfulness in the redemptive work is.
Christ's faith saves.
Man's faith is for pleasing God, for without it, it is impossible to please God.
If you believe they are one and the same, Bro. Sing's question necessitates the distinction.
Julio
Faith of the Savior that saves
eternally. And man's faith is just one of the fruit of salvation..
Man's faith can't save eternal.. only the faith of JESUS CHRIST..
a big difference!
Man's faith can't save eternal.. only the faith of JESUS CHRIST..
a big difference!
Linda
The faith I have in the redemptive
work of Christ on the cross is a gift from God
The faith I have has been given to
me by Jesus. I have no faith of my own. I have the faith of Jesus that enables
me to believe in his redemptive work until salvation and eternal life.
Julio
Jesus Christ did not give man faith
to save themselves eternally..
That is a big error..He is the savior alone..
He is enough. Man should not partake the glory only belongs to Christ..shame to man.
That is a big error..He is the savior alone..
He is enough. Man should not partake the glory only belongs to Christ..shame to man.
Man's faith is not the cause of
salvation..it is the result of being saved... Gal 5;22
Linda
I did not say that Julio, I know
that He is the Saviour, but I have to believe that He is the Saviour and that
is why I have to have the gift of faith that is given me by God/Jesus.
Julio
Why you have to believe that He is
the savior? Is that makes you saved?
It's became your choice. Please try to understand the context of eph.2:8-9,
It's became your choice. Please try to understand the context of eph.2:8-9,
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not
believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Can you answer this question from
the bible. Tnx.
Sing F Lau
Why is it so difficult?
Is the salvation by the grace of God......
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
That is a question simple enough, isn't it?
If it is unclear to you, please say so.
Then I will make it less clear for you.
What is your answer?
Is the salvation by the grace of God......
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
That is a question simple enough, isn't it?
If it is unclear to you, please say so.
Then I will make it less clear for you.
What is your answer?
Sing F Lau
Linda @ "... they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD Almighty."
Which is why this apostolic command is ever relevant:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Linda @ "... they are one and the same thing, the origin and by whose 'faith' is GOD Almighty."
Which is why this apostolic command is ever relevant:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Linda
Because the bible says in Rom 10:9
"that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, and
believe (have the faith of God) in your heart that God raised him from the
dead, you will be saved" Rom 10:10 "For it is with your heart that
you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and
are saved"
Sing F Lau
Some sincere folks are SO OBSESSED
with the faith that the Spirit of God worked in them (and which enabled them to
believe) - that they are incapable of reading what the Scriptures speak about
the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST in their salvation!!!
They just keep on blah blah blah about their faith (which they piously qualify as a gift from God. They don't reveal the HARD fact they are the one who must do the believing, without which they would remain incapable of being saved by God.) That much for their pious and religious talk!
They just keep on blah blah blah about their faith (which they piously qualify as a gift from God. They don't reveal the HARD fact they are the one who must do the believing, without which they would remain incapable of being saved by God.) That much for their pious and religious talk!
Sing F Lau
The Bible declares that EXCEPT a man
be born again, THAT IS, given eternal live, SAVED by God, he CANNOT see,
neither enter the kingdom of God? Why? He is still in his native state of sin
and death.
Confession - seeing, and entering - can only be made by those ALREADY SAVED by God's free grace.
Confession - seeing, and entering - can only be made by those ALREADY SAVED by God's free grace.
Linda
Sing, it is through the faith of
Christ that enables me to believe that I am saved by grace
Sing F Lau .
No, Linda.
It is through the faith of Christ Jesus THAT YOU ARE SAVED!
It is through the faith the Spirit of God worked in you that enables you to believe that you are saved.
You are just not willing to acknowledge that truth from Eph 2:8.
You are obsessed with the faith worked in you by the Spirit of God.
The faith of Christ, and the faith the Spirit of God worked in you are TOTALLY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!
No, Linda.
It is through the faith of Christ Jesus THAT YOU ARE SAVED!
It is through the faith the Spirit of God worked in you that enables you to believe that you are saved.
You are just not willing to acknowledge that truth from Eph 2:8.
You are obsessed with the faith worked in you by the Spirit of God.
The faith of Christ, and the faith the Spirit of God worked in you are TOTALLY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Linda
Sing, I will inbox you, because my
computer is very slow at the moment, only 2g.
Sing F Lau
Say all that you need to say here.
Thanks. So, don't inbox me. It will not be read.
Julio
It's because God saved you first
before you can have the faith from the Lord...
Faith of man cometh by
hearing..simply to please God,not to be use to get eternal life...very big
error.
Jenfry
Jn3:16
Danny
Sis. Linda, since you acknowledge
that faith comes from or originates with God, do you also acknowledge that a
man dead in sins does not possess faith?
I hope this method will be more helpful.
I hope this method will be more helpful.
Julio
Jn 3:16 does not mean faith comes
first before eternal life.
Mary Carlton
Of.
Julio
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye
saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not
of works, lest any man should boast.
Lest any man should boast."
Sing F Lau
Jenfry, John 3:16 has no magic!
John 3:16 is a statement declaring a FACT about the believing ones - they have everlasting life, they POSSESS eternal life, the explanation for their believing. And the fact that they possess everlasting is attributed to God SO LOVED them in Jesus Christ.
Even so this, "Whoever eats has life..." This is a statement declaring something about the whoever that eats; such has life, possesses life, is in the state of living! The statement does not offer life to the dead who will but eat. All the sounded minded people instant recognize and acknowledge that to make the statement to mean the latter is just sheer stupidity, lacking common sense.
But so many insist that that is what John 3:16 says, i.e. it is making an offer to the dead, that whosoever will believe shall receive everlasting life!
John 3:16 is a statement declaring a FACT about the believing ones - they have everlasting life, they POSSESS eternal life, the explanation for their believing. And the fact that they possess everlasting is attributed to God SO LOVED them in Jesus Christ.
Even so this, "Whoever eats has life..." This is a statement declaring something about the whoever that eats; such has life, possesses life, is in the state of living! The statement does not offer life to the dead who will but eat. All the sounded minded people instant recognize and acknowledge that to make the statement to mean the latter is just sheer stupidity, lacking common sense.
But so many insist that that is what John 3:16 says, i.e. it is making an offer to the dead, that whosoever will believe shall receive everlasting life!
Julio
Through faith of Christ..that's what
the bible teaches.
Thats for u..glory to you..
What about faith of Christ?
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is
not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even
we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of
Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no
flesh be justified.
Jenfry
I believe God's Word as it stands.
"....Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on The Lord
Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that
Julio
A man is justified by the faith of
WHO?
What salvation is talking about? Jenfry?
Eternal salvation?
Did you study the context?
Jenfry
Eternal life
Eternal life with God
Julio
There are types of justification,
timely and eternal justification, that speaks about eternal justification..
Do you mean, eternal justification is not by grace?..
Do you mean, eternal justification is not by grace?..
There are also types of salvation..
time salvation and eternal salvation..
You are lacking about this.. Jenfry.. you mixed the the types of salvation..that is your problem..that's why, you rather choose to believe the error than what is really the bible teach.
You are lacking about this.. Jenfry.. you mixed the the types of salvation..that is your problem..that's why, you rather choose to believe the error than what is really the bible teach.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall
endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Luke 1:71 That we should be saved
from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; Acts 2:40 And with
many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this
untoward generation. 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth
also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the
answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Jenfry
But in both instances that I quoted
it was eternal salvation meant. Again I say, I believe Gods Word as it stands!!
Sing F Lau
I believe God's Word as it stands.
"....Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on The Lord
Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...." Couldn't be clearer than that
======
That sounds so pious and religious, "I believe God's word as it stands."
The jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
If it couldn't be clearer than that, then help to answer a few simple questions:.
What did the jailer want to be saved from, do you know?
What was uppermost in his mind when he uttered that question? His head or his deliverance from eternal condemnation? Why did he want to take his own life?
And was Apostle Paul asking a man STILL DEAD in his native state of trespasses and sins [i.e. NOT SAVED] to perform a spiritual act in order to get SAVED? I know there is no such STUPID people who ask a dead man to wink his eyes in order to be made alive.
BUT I have heard enough STUPID Christians saying that sinners dead in trespasses and sins are commanded to do or perform some acts in order to get saved. And to be sure they are understood, they added, they are talking about eternal salvation.
There is no need to be offended by my using the adjective STUPID. It simply means LACKING COMMON SENSE. STUPID is a proper adjective.
======
That sounds so pious and religious, "I believe God's word as it stands."
The jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
If it couldn't be clearer than that, then help to answer a few simple questions:.
What did the jailer want to be saved from, do you know?
What was uppermost in his mind when he uttered that question? His head or his deliverance from eternal condemnation? Why did he want to take his own life?
And was Apostle Paul asking a man STILL DEAD in his native state of trespasses and sins [i.e. NOT SAVED] to perform a spiritual act in order to get SAVED? I know there is no such STUPID people who ask a dead man to wink his eyes in order to be made alive.
BUT I have heard enough STUPID Christians saying that sinners dead in trespasses and sins are commanded to do or perform some acts in order to get saved. And to be sure they are understood, they added, they are talking about eternal salvation.
There is no need to be offended by my using the adjective STUPID. It simply means LACKING COMMON SENSE. STUPID is a proper adjective.
Sing F Lau
Good night. It's 1.29am where I
live. I just came in from my mid-night walk.
Julio
May the grace of understanding from
God...don't choose to be ignorant..
Tim 2:15.
Tim 2:15.
Jenfry
Sing, why did the jailer fall down
before Paul & Silas? Because he knew they were responsible for all the
miracles....they had been praying & singing praises to God! Secondly, we
were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to save us. Thirdly,
would Paul have told the jailer to believe on The Lord Jesus Christ to save him
from physical danger? I don't think so.
Sing F Lau
Jenny, who do you think I should
believe - you, or Jesus?
You said, "we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to save us."
First, I advise you to speak for your self , "I was all dead in trespasses and sins when I asked Jesus to save me." Don't speak for me UNLESS you are given PLAIN instruction to do so.
Second, Jesus speaks for me, and He said, "Except a man be born again (i.e given eternal life, SAVED with eternal salvation), he CANNOT..... he CANNOT see (perceive the truth concerning the truth of) the kingdom of God.... CANNOT enter the kingdom of God.
You have just believed the complete OPPOSITE.... that "the dead in trespasses and sins can perceive who Jesus is and ask him to save him. BUT you have claimed, "I believe God's Word as it stands." That's the gretest joke!
You have believe a BIG lie, and are oblivious of it... instead very haughty and confidence, claiming "I believe God's Word as it stands."
Go, think and reflex first before further comment. Thanks.
You said, "we were all dead in trespasses & sin when we asked Jesus to save us."
First, I advise you to speak for your self , "I was all dead in trespasses and sins when I asked Jesus to save me." Don't speak for me UNLESS you are given PLAIN instruction to do so.
Second, Jesus speaks for me, and He said, "Except a man be born again (i.e given eternal life, SAVED with eternal salvation), he CANNOT..... he CANNOT see (perceive the truth concerning the truth of) the kingdom of God.... CANNOT enter the kingdom of God.
You have just believed the complete OPPOSITE.... that "the dead in trespasses and sins can perceive who Jesus is and ask him to save him. BUT you have claimed, "I believe God's Word as it stands." That's the gretest joke!
You have believe a BIG lie, and are oblivious of it... instead very haughty and confidence, claiming "I believe God's Word as it stands."
Go, think and reflex first before further comment. Thanks.
Jenfry
"And Jesus answering said unto
them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came
not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Lk5:31-32
Sing F Lau
Whether you think so or not does not
matter the least. What Christ Himself declares alone matters.
A man who is able to perform a spiritual act like believing is evidence of his SAVED STATE by the free grace of God. A dead man cannot wink his eyes to be made alive.
Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ CAN and DOES save a man from all sort of physical dangers. It saved many Jews from being SLAUGHTERED and ROSATED like pigs by the Romans on 70AD.
Read Acts 2:37-40.
Go and read the account of the jailer a bit closer. The jailer nearly took his own life; why? Why did all the prisoners, though all their bonds loosened not escape? What would have happened had only one of them eacaped?
Please stop blah blah blah like an odious woman!!! I advice go and think a bit. I have given FAR too much time to a woman!
And please don't just quote Scriptures. The devil does it very well, and I'm not even impressed.
A man who is able to perform a spiritual act like believing is evidence of his SAVED STATE by the free grace of God. A dead man cannot wink his eyes to be made alive.
Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ CAN and DOES save a man from all sort of physical dangers. It saved many Jews from being SLAUGHTERED and ROSATED like pigs by the Romans on 70AD.
Read Acts 2:37-40.
Go and read the account of the jailer a bit closer. The jailer nearly took his own life; why? Why did all the prisoners, though all their bonds loosened not escape? What would have happened had only one of them eacaped?
Please stop blah blah blah like an odious woman!!! I advice go and think a bit. I have given FAR too much time to a woman!
And please don't just quote Scriptures. The devil does it very well, and I'm not even impressed.
Dyess
Best answer I know of, way more
eloquently explained that my limited ability
http://flintriverpbc.org/rad.../183-that-verse-ephesians-2-8
http://flintriverpbc.org/rad.../183-that-verse-ephesians-2-8
RonStew
It is not our faith but the faith
given in grace from God when we hear; see; read; the Word of God and the Holy
spirit makes us aware of our need as a sinner of a Saviour; the blood is the
only way to the Father / no exceptions/ His gift was His Son Jesus anything
else would be an insult /for: "all our works 'ARE' a filthy rag."
Sing F Lau
"All our works ARE a filthy
rag"
===========
And man's act of believiing in Jesus Christ is among those WORKS. Jesus said so. Some would be so impudent to dispute with Jesus again. Just wait and see!!!
John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Believing is a WORK done by those ALREADY SAVED by God.
Only such are capable of believing.
Those still in their native state of sin and condemnation are incapable.
Their believing save them from lies, superstition, ungodliness, temporal consequences of sins, etc, etc.
===========
And man's act of believiing in Jesus Christ is among those WORKS. Jesus said so. Some would be so impudent to dispute with Jesus again. Just wait and see!!!
John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Believing is a WORK done by those ALREADY SAVED by God.
Only such are capable of believing.
Those still in their native state of sin and condemnation are incapable.
Their believing save them from lies, superstition, ungodliness, temporal consequences of sins, etc, etc.
Mann
Sing, the text is self explanatory.
We are saved by grace through faith and that faith is the gift of God. There is
no other way to read the text and be true to the language.
[sing: Mann is a Primitive Baptist Elder.]
Lopez
KJV
Sing F Lau
Elder Man with a double 'n' has
spoken!
Self-explanatory indeed, but the minds of SO MANY, including PBs elders, are so prejudiced....that they miss the plain obvious truth!
The GIFT is the salvation through the redemption of Christ.
The GIFT of that salvation is through faith.
Is the GIFT of salvation by the grace of God...
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
Self-explanatory indeed, but the minds of SO MANY, including PBs elders, are so prejudiced....that they miss the plain obvious truth!
The GIFT is the salvation through the redemption of Christ.
The GIFT of that salvation is through faith.
Is the GIFT of salvation by the grace of God...
- "through your faith in Christ," or
- "through the faith of Christ."
