The Calvinists' Fable of the Instrumentality of the Gospel Ministry in the Divine work of Effectual Calling the Elect in the light of their own Confession of Faiths.
(It is a fable embraced by their cousins Arminians as well!)
(It is a fable embraced by their cousins Arminians as well!)
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| A manstrich - putting your head in the ground won't help you to see the obvious! |
(The whole exchange can be read here: https://www.facebook.com/rocky.a.simbajon/posts/10151125385291723 )
Ricky,
I will demonstrate to you that A. A. Hodges has perverted the truth stated in the WCF.X.1
I sincerely hope that you will read and study this post to the end. Raise any objection if you have. I'm only showing you what your WCF declares. Of course you... can disagree with my reading of it but tell us why when you do disagree. I suggest that you actually study the WCF yourself a bit and not just parrot what others tell you.
You quoted him on WCF.X as follows:
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"Sections I and II teach – (1) That there is an internal as well as an external call necessary to save men. (2) Its subjects are the elect only. (3) The Holy Ghost is the agent, who effects it by the instrumentality of the truth.
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He asserts that the Holy Ghost effects the internal call by the instrumentality of the truth. Therefore the effectual call is conditioned upon the external call through the ministry of the word.
Now here is the exact text of WCF.X.i. And read carefully and let it says what it says. The framers were far more logical that their WOOLLY followers.
I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ: enlightening their minds, spiritually and savingly, to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good; and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
Let me leave some observations here:
1. ALL ELECT without exception is effectually called the same way.
- "All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only" - this embraces ALL ELECT without any exception.- Once you introduce an alternative way, you have contradicted the Framers as well as the Lord Jesus Christ - "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO IS EVERY ONE THAT IS BORN OF GOD."
- So you need to choose, either ALL ELECT are effectually called with the instrumentality of the gospel ministry, or NONE ever was, has been. is, or ever will be.
- The choice is quite easy if one is to believe the truth.
2. "By His Word and Spirit" - His Word is a reference to the second Person of the God... the eternal Logos, the life-giving Word. All the THREE persons of the Godhead are actively involved in the new creation in the effectual call. Hodges is WRONG saying the Holy Ghost is the agent. It is "God, by His Word and Spirit..." the three Persons of the Godhead.
Effectual call involves more than regeneration! Calling the elect "out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ" requires justification, regeneration, and adoption.
- (And please remember that the effectual call is not the same as regeneration. They are distinct... Your WCF stated so, see XIII.1.)
3. No instrumentality of the gospel ministry is mentioned at all in this whole paragraph.
No human activity is mentioned at all. It is all the sole activities of the Divine Godhead.
- He is pleased...
- His appointed and accepted time...
- To effectually to call out of the state of sin and death. In the state of sin and death, what possible relevance is the ministry of the word to such? One would think that the ministry of the word has relevance ONLY AFTER the effectual call is COMPLETED!!! It is common sense but prejudice defies common sense!
- Enlightening their mind that was in the state of sin and death...
- Taking away their heart of stone that was in the state of sin and death...
- Giving them the heart of flesh...
- Renewing their wills...
- Determining them to that which is good...
- Effectually drawing them to Christ... UNITED to Christ.
And all these by His ALMIGHTY POWER... free and special grace plus nothing... and this is TRUE OF EVERY SINGLE ELECT... including EVEN all those mentioned in WCF.X.iii.
And all these must PRECEDE before the dead in trespasses and sins are able to respond to the preaching of the word of God.
Am I clear thus far? And do you agree?
A few more words on WCF.X.ii
II. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from any thing at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.
I hope you are reading up to this point.
1. The fiction of the instrumentality of the gospel ministry in the effectual calling is PLAINLY and CLEARLY excluded and repudiated here...
- "This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone..." The free and special grace of God ALONE necessarily EXCLUDES everything thing else... even the instrumentality of the gospel ministry. But many do not know the exact meaning of the word 'ALONE'!- The Divine work of effectually calling His elect out of their state of sin and death, WITHOUT exception, is by His free and special grace, without any instrumentality of the gospel ministry.
- The Divine work of effectually calling NEEDS NO assistance of the gospel ministry administered by men! The Framers PLAINLY excludes it.
2. The instrumentality of the ministry of the word is IRRELEVANT to an elect UNTIL... UNTIL... UNTIL (do you read that word???") - "until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit."
- The gospel ministry is irrelevant to a man in the state of sin and death, who is completely passive to Godward but in fact very active in enmity against God.
- And God DOESN'T need that instrumentality. It is the Calvinists who want to foist their gospel ministry upon God, and insist that God chooses to use it as an instrument! Shame!
3. It is the effectual call by God's free and special grace that ENABLES an elect (justified, regenerated and adopted as the result of the effectual call) to answer to the gospel call - "he is thereby enabled to answer this call." Paragraph ii(b) deals with the effectually called who are capable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word. Paragraph iii deals with those who are incapable.
- Nothing is offered in the effectual call. Grace and eternal salvation are sovereignly applied in the effectual call to every elect personally at God's appointed and accepted time. Any offer of eternal salvation to a man dead in trespasses and sin would be the height of mockery.
- The effectual call by God's free and special grace that ENABLES an elect to respond to the gospel call is necessarily DISTINCT, LOGICALLY and CHRONOLOGICALLY PRIOR to the gospel call, just as cause and effect are. They are not interdependent at all.
- The new school Calvinists UNITE them and produced the monstrous lie of "gospel regeneration" with a whole host of logical fallacies!
4. It is in the gospel call, that the grace of temporal salvation is offered and conveyed
- "this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."
- many temporal blessings are offered and conveyed in the gospel to those that are ALREADY effectually called to grace and eternal salvation by God's free and special grace ALONE... without the instrumentality of the gospel ministry!
Thanks, Brother Rocky.
You stay where you are comfortable with.
May our Lord bless you richly.
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Sing
Brother Rocky,
Sorry, I need to correct one serious misconception.
You stated: "To assert that they were regenerated in infancy is a pure fancy of the mind. We can only ascertain one thing, namely, that they were all saved by the ordinary ministry of the Word."
Brother, you are quite mistaken. If you think effectual call = regeneration, you have not read nor studied your WCF yet!!! You are just parroting reformed shibboleth! I'm serious!
No one asserts that they were regenerated in infancy. You missed the whole point.
Your WCF says that it is at God's approved and accepted time... and that could be anytime between the conception and physical death of an elect of God.
The issue at hand is: The effectual call (which includes regeneration) is LOGICALLY and CHRONOLOGICALLY PRIOR to and WITHOUT the instrumentality of the gospel ministry.
The gospel ministry is the divinely appointed instrument for the CONVERSION of His children - the elect that are already effectually called.
The new school Calvinists have repudiated this Scriptural truth summarized by the old school Calvinists in their Confessions.Thanks
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Sing
Brother Rocky,
The more I read, the more logical fallacies I see... Sad.
New school Calvinists are so confused, so riddled with logical fallacies...
You quoted A A Hodges:
Sections I and II teach – (1) That there is an internal as well as an external call necessary to save men. (2) Its subjects are the elect only. (3) The Holy Ghost is the agent, who effects it by the instrumentality of the truth.
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Take his (1) 'That there is an internal as well as an external call necessary to save men.'
Do you really believe this NONSENSE - that an internal, AS WELL AS an external call, is NECESSARY to save men?
This statement must NECESSARILY have the implication that those that are incapable of the external call CANNOT be saved in any sense! And this is a horrid error... it contradicts and repudiates WCF.X.iii!
There is a VERY BIG problem here... new school Calvinists CANNOT differentiate the ETERNAL salvation that comes by the effectual call of God's free and special grace, and the TEMPORAL salvation that is ministered through the gospel call administered through men!!!
Take his (3) - 'The Holy Ghost is the agent, who effects it by the instrumentality of the truth.'
I take the pronoun 'it' as a reference to salvation mentioned in (1). If that be the case, it must necessarily mean that the Holy Spirit would be IMPOTENT to effect salvation WITHOUT the instrumentality of the truth. This simply means that those mentioned in WCF.X.iii - without the opportunity, and or ability to hear the gospel - are all damned though they are God's elect!!!
OK, now go qualify and ADD exceptions to Hodges' statements so that they do not contain LOGICAL FALLACIES.
I was raised in a new school Calvinist environment... I see through all their logical fallacies and inconsistencies some 15 years later. I left it after patiently wrestling with them... to embrace the Biblical truth summarized in the historic Confession... especially the 1689CoF.
your friend in Christ
sing
Rocky
Since you are boasting of faithfully adhering to the original intent of the framers of the Westminster Confession of Faith, please bring in one credible witness from the one hundred and two Westminster divines who attended the Assembly to prove your notion that the “Word and His Spirit” do refer to Christ, the Logos, and the Holy Ghost – two persons of the Godhead, thus denying that it refers to the preaching of the Word (outward call) and God’s Spirit (inward call). For unless you can bring at least one among the one hundred and two divines from that venerable Assembly, it is pointless and fruitless to continue discussing with you here.
I think this simple question will settle the differences between us at once. It is a strange theology, indeed, to misinterpret the original intent of the Assembly. The Assembly, in their Shorter Catechism, in answering to question # 31, What is effectual calling? Says, “Effectual call is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ, and renewing our wills, he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel.” I Sarah Hillbilly Husband, Brent Gensler and many of the thorough Reformed and Presbyterians whom you call half-brothers are anxiously waiting for your answer to the above simple question.
Sing F Lau
Sorry Rocky just noticed your comment.
OK then... look at the answer to Q31, What is the effectual calling?
The answer given is: “Effectual call is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ, and renewing our wills, he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel.”
This answer plainly distinguishes and separates the two callings: the effectual call to grace and salvation as defined in WCF.X.i. This effectual call to grace and salvation ENABLES a child of God to embrace Christ offered in the gospel call.
What is so strange?
Every elect is effectually called to grace and salvation at God's approved and accepted time. The effectually called are enabled to embrace Christ who is freely preached and made known to the effectually called.
The effectual call to grace and salvation is logically and chronologically prior to the gospel call.
Some of the effectually called are incapable of being outwardly called by gospel call - either because of their INABILITY, or they never had the OPPORTUNITY to hear the gospel in their lifetime. (see X.iii)
Only the effectual call is NECESSARY for eternal salvation.
A. A. Hodges statement, that "That there is an internal as well as an external call NECESSARY to save men" - PLAINLY implies that those incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word cannot be saved! That statement DAMNS all the effectually called who are incapable of being reached, and saved by the gospel ministry!
That's a pure contradiction and logical fallacy.
Sing F Lau
Rocky, you requested:
Since you are boasting of faithfully adhering to the original intent of the framers of the Westminster Confession of Faith, please bring in one credible witness from the one hundred and two Westminster divines who attended the Assembly to prove your notion that the “Word and His Spirit” do refer to Christ, the Logos, and the Holy Ghost – two persons of the Godhead, thus denying that it refers to the preaching of the Word (outward call) and God’s Spirit (inward call).
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Brother Rocky, why do you say I am boasting.
My conclusion - that the “Word and His Spirit” do refer to Christ, the Logos, and the Holy Ghost – two persons of the Godhead, thus denying that it refers to the preaching of the word (outward call) and God’s Spirit (inward call) - is necessary, otherwise you MUST necessarily conclude that ALL THE WCF Framers are illogical and self-contradicting!
Let me demonstrate to you by their VERY own words in the WCF:
WCF.X.i necessarily EMBRACES ALL THE ELECT.... do you agree? Read again. Is any elect excepted?
So, if you want to make 'His Word' to refer to the ministry of the word (outward call), then you are necessarily making the Framers to state that ALL the elect without exception will have the outward call, none excepted. Do you agree with this necessary and inevitable conclusion???
If that's what you want to make the Framers mean in WCF.X.i, then you are making the Framers appear really stupid and illogical and inconsistent to mention in X.iii that there are elect who don't have the outward call. You are saying that the Framers contradict X.i with X.iii. Do you see the point?
No, the Framers were clear and logical. It is their STEP-CHILDREN that are confused and illogical and inconsistent.
