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| Habanero - these chillies are very spicy! |
God has not decreed all things but some things! God has not foreknown all things but some things. In His omniscience he knows all things and all outcomes but he has not predestined all things only some things.
CJoe
If God has foreknown only some things, then couldn't it be that there is some chance the antiChrist may repent?
Sing F Lau
"Foreknowing" has nothing to do with knowing... but loving!
God DOES NOT foreknow things... He foreknows PERSONS!!!
29 ¶ For WHOM he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
CJoe
hmm... but places like Joel 2:30-31, doesnt this show that the darkening of the sun, the moon into red... 'things'??
TCobra
he also foreknows things. Don't drift away from the fact that God odes NOT know the beginning from the end. Read your bible, and check out Revelation.
DRyssel
Charles, decreeing all things is what it means to be God. Otherwise, He is just another bystander.
Sing F Lau
God does not need to decree all things in order to know all things and to be in control of all things!!!
God did decree all those activities related to the eternal salvation of His elect... so that they will most assuredly take place and His elect saved to the uttermost!
It is the sick imagination of weak man to think that the infinite and eternal and unchangingly sovereign God needs to decree ALL things in order to know, and be in control of all things. That idea actually diminishes God's sovereignty!!!
The truly sovereign God remains in full control of His creation WITHOUT decreeing ALL THINGS, with His creatures having all the true liberty and freedom of actions... God is still firmly in control. That's truly sovereign! If God did decree all things, then God would be chargeable for many of those evil and wicked acts decreed... no matter how you hedge it.
Sing F Lau
Tom, you confuse the biblical term 'foreknow' with the word omniscience! Distinction is the essence of sound theology!
TCobra
I completely understand what foreknow means. It distinctly refers to HIS people.
God is also providently planning and bringing to fruition the end too
Sing F Lau
CJoe, don't quote Scriptures and leave it at that.
If you are not prepared to explain the relevance of the Scriptures quoted, don't quote...
What does the phenomenon of the sun and moon turning red have to do with divine decreeing?
TCobra
And God will also not allow us to do some things within is sovereign plans
Sing F Lau
TCobra - on the one hand "foreknowing" distinctly refers to His people... on the other hand it refers to things ALSO!!!
What double gibberish talk!!!
Charles
TCobra, their destiny is decreed their believing is not decreed but fore seen.
God gives his elect children full free will via regeneration/new birth. They are fully responsible/accountable for their actions.
TCobra
Sing you have limited freedom, you cant rule the universe unless its within the realm of Gods plan
Sing F Lau
Tom, you are completely confused about the scope of man's freedom, and the realm of man's jurisdiction!
Distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Fish has complete freedom in the realm appointed for it.
It is foolish to say that fish has not the full freedom to live in water.
However, fish was never meant to live in air by its Creator!!!
TCobra
I never said you didnt have freedom, stop trying to bury me in one minute with your hyper calvinism
DRyssel
God foreknows all things. Why say that only ordains some of them? Seems rather pointless.
Sing F Lau
I didn't say you had said that I have no freedom! That's your own imagination.
What I did say is that God the sovereign Creator give FULL freedom to man made in His image. You believe in limited freedom. I believe in full freedom... The truly sovereign God does not fear to grant man FULL FREEDOM... that way man can be truly held responsible for all his actions!!!
Without full freedom, the moral government of God over man collapses!!!
"Denunciation is the last resort of a defeated foe" said A. Pink when people attacked and dismissed his book "The Sovereignty of God" as hypercalvinistic! So, don't throw labels around! It shows desperation!
TCobra
Freedom from what?
DRyssel
Jesus said that sinners are slaves of sin and that the freed man becomes a slave of Christ. How, then, can you say you have FULL FREEDOM?
TCobra
And an a w pink fan
Sing F Lau
It is not free from what, dude! It is freedom of what!
It is freedom of actions... he acts freely in all that he does. He didn't act because it was decreed by God!!!
No, I'm not a fan... your smart alecky remark about hyper calvinism reminds me of what he said!
Since you are a fan, take his wise admonition!
TCobra
We are never free from the presence of sin I Til the return of JC
Sing don't be offended just ease respond with distance that can persuade.
That should say don't be offended, just please respond with substance that could persuade me to think differently. Have a decent theological conversation that does not condescend please.
Sing F Lau
TCobra, you are completely confused about the point again... freedom as in liberty of actions. Get the point?
Is it decent to tell you that you have completely missed the point, that you double talk?
Who is saying that man is free from the presence of sin? Did any one say so?
Sing F Lau
A man who is a slave of sin is still a man with FULL freedom in all his actions, he sins FREELY, not coerced or ordained or predetermined... yes, his will may be enslaved to sin, but he acts with full freedom... therefore can be held fully responsible for all his actions!
TCobra
Do u still sin?
Sing F Lau
Yes I still DOOOO... and I do it freely, completely un-coerced by anything outside of me.
And you do toooo, but probably not completely freely by your own choice, but coerced from some forces outside you... so you can legitimately pass the buck... may be to God who decreed that you helplessly sin that way... since so many insist that God has ordained ALL THINGS whatsoever come to pass! Do I get you right?
Charles
Sing F Lau
You get the point, soldier! Delightful!!!
TCobra
Have I ever blamed anyone for my sin, Sing?
Charles
yeah, meeeee, LOL
Sing F Lau
By explicit implication, YES!
If a man denies complete and full freedom in your action, then he is controlled to some extent by some external forces in his actions; thus he can legitimately pass the black bucks to someone else!
TCobra
titus 2:12; 2 cor 5:14
Sing F Lau
Devil quotes Scriptures better than that!
Seriously, speak relevantly.
TCobra
good comeback........not
charles didnt you teach him about sanctification
Charles
he has no need that anyman should teach him! I John 2:27
TCobra
he needs you like the flower needs the rain you know.....
Charles
he needs the holy spirit like the flower needs the rain. He needs me like he needs another hole in the head!
TCobra
no need for the HS?
Sing F Lau
Hey, didn't you read, TCobra?
Charles taught this: "God gives his elect children full free will via regeneration/new birth. They are fully responsible/accountable for their actions." ---- yes, even in sanctification!! Cobra cold learn a few things from Charles.. but he isn't!
Tom, don't you read and learn a little?
TCobra
I'm a northerner we don't smile
I agree with free will post salvation, but not freedom to do anything because of the restrictions. Didn't Paul want to go to Asia Minor and was denied
Sing F Lau
Tom, do you see the difference between free will, and free agency?
You seem to be very confused about so many things... that I find communication difficult.
You probably have been thinking about FREE WILL all the time.
Paul was led to go to Aisa Minor.
He was still FREE not to go!!!
He was not forced or coerced to go Asia Minor.
He went to Asia Minor FREELY, freely responding to the leading!
I'm a far-easterner... and I laugh as we talk and learn and teach!
I'm no austere Yankee but a jovial Chinese!
