Reformed Folks DENY the Ordo Salutis
Stated Plainly in their WCF!
This is what the Reformed Ordo Salutis leads tooby Sing F Lau on Thursday, December 22, 2011 at 11:07pm
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:46:55 +0800
To: Reformed folks
Subject: WCF 10-14
Please pardon me for this post.
You confess that you do subscribe to the WCF and are well versed with it. You can even quote so well from both the Shorter and Larger Catechisms. I have a genuine puzzle I can't get over with for weeks now. I would like to ask you a few simple questions.
What follows are statements from Chapters 10-14 of WCF [sic], your Doctrinal Standard. Though incomplete, they are sufficient to serve the purpose at hand. I will tell you in a separate mail some significant differences between the WCF and the Second London Confession of Faith (1689). The First LCF (1644) was framed before the WCF (1647) was around.
10.1 "All those whom God hath predestined unto life, and those only, he is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ..."
[Please note: effectual calling is the calling the elect out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation. What is involved in calling an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation? Let your Confession spell them out for you. Hear well!]
11.1 "Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth..."
[Please note what is the very first thing involved in the effectual calling of an elect out of his native state of sin and death, i.e. under the state of condemnation! The effectual call of an elect out of his native state of sin and death requires first and foremost justification, accounting the righteousness of Christ to an elect under condemnation.]
12.1 "All those that are justified, God vouchsafed, in and for His only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption..."
13.1 "They who are effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them are also farther sanctified, really and personally..."
[Please note that there is a clear distinction between effectual call and regeneration. They are not the same. The effectual call of an elect out of his native state of sin and death involves the divine act of regeneration. Application of righteousness to an elect by God gives divine warrant to the Spirit of God in the work of regeneration. And the regenerated are made partakers of the grace of adoption, with the gift of the Spirit of adoption to dwell in them, thus working all the saving graces in them.]
14.1 "The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the word..."
[Everything stated in chapters 10-13 is accomplished by the free and sovereign activities of God and enables the elect (now justified, regenerated and adopted, with the Spirit dwelling in them) to believe in the saving of their souls. Only those already saved by God with eternal salvation are enable to believe the gospel for the temporal salvation of their souls. The grace of faith is one of the graces worked by the indwelling Spirit in each effectually called elect. This grace of faith is drawn forth and made manifest by the ministry of the word. This grace of faith is expressed in the act of believing through the gospel ministry. The ministry of the word is relevant ONLY AFTER justification, regeneration, and adoption have been accomplished by God's free and sovereign activities.]
Here are my simple questions. I would be very grateful to hear from your own mouth your clear answers to these questions. I have framed them in such a way that they require the SIMPLEST answers. If you feel that the way I phrased the questions is unfair, please indicate so and give your reasons, or suggest how should they be phrased.
From the above (i.e. the plain statements of your WCF):
1. Do you agree that there is a strict logical order and progression in the statements of truths of salvation?
2. Do you agree that the effectual call to grace and salvation requires and embraces the divine acts of justifying the condemned, regenerating the dead, and adopting the regenerated into the divine family, in that order and number?
- Without these divine acts, can a man in his native state of sin and death be brought into that state of grace and salvation?
3. Do you agree that justification by God is logically before regeneration and adoption?
4. Do you agree that effectual call is distinct from regeneration?
5. Do you agree that regeneration and adoption are logically prior to faith in Christ?
6. Do you agree that justification by faith in Christ follows AFTER, both logically and chronologically, regeneration and adoption?
7. Do you agree that the effectual call (definitive sanctification) by God's sovereign activity enables a man to further sanctification through the gospel ministry?
- Effectual call is termed definitive sanctification because it once and for all and completely sets a man free from his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation.
- Effectual call enables a man to hear, and respond to the gospel call.
- Definitive sanctification makes further sanctification possible.
8. Do you agree that 'further sanctification' presupposes a certain sanctification that is completed and done? i.e. the effectual call that sanctified/separated an elect "out of that state of sin and death which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ"?
9. Do you agree that the gospel call and faith (conversion) come under the lifelong process of further sanctification?
10. Do you agree that the grace of faith is worked by the Spirit of Christ in the heart of an ALREADY justified, regenerated and adopted elect by the free and sovereign activities of God, without any human cooperation?
11. HERE IS A BIG ONE: Are the statements of your Confession a faithful summary of the Bible's teaching? Do you believe them?
I have asked simple questions.
I would be grateful for some simple answers to clear my puzzle.
Thank you for entertaining an 'erring' brother.
sing
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"And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not" Acts 28:24
POSTSCRIPT
But here is the standard and popular ordo salutis of the Reformed people:
(taken from a reformed website, Monergism)
1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30).
The WCF's statements above plainly taught the Bible's order of salvation (in the application part of the redemption)
1. Effectual call by the free and sovereign grace of God
- Justification - righteousness freely applied to each individual personally
- Regeneration - justification of life secures the regeneration to life
- Adoption (together with the gift of the Spirit of adoption dwelling in God's children, working all saving graces in them, including faith.)
From the above (i.e. the plain statements of your WCF):
1. Do you agree that there is a strict logical order and progression in the statements of truths of salvation?
2. Do you agree that the effectual call to grace and salvation requires and embraces the divine acts of justifying the condemned, regenerating the dead, and adopting the regenerated into the divine family, in that order and number?
- Without these divine acts, can a man in his native state of sin and death be brought into that state of grace and salvation?
3. Do you agree that justification by God is logically before regeneration and adoption?
4. Do you agree that effectual call is distinct from regeneration?
5. Do you agree that regeneration and adoption are logically prior to faith in Christ?
6. Do you agree that justification by faith in Christ follows AFTER, both logically and chronologically, regeneration and adoption?
7. Do you agree that the effectual call (definitive sanctification) by God's sovereign activity enables a man to further sanctification through the gospel ministry?
- Effectual call is termed definitive sanctification because it once and for all and completely sets a man free from his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation.
- Effectual call enables a man to hear, and respond to the gospel call.
- Definitive sanctification makes further sanctification possible.
8. Do you agree that 'further sanctification' presupposes a certain sanctification that is completed and done? i.e. the effectual call that sanctified/separated an elect "out of that state of sin and death which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ"?
9. Do you agree that the gospel call and faith (conversion) come under the lifelong process of further sanctification?
10. Do you agree that the grace of faith is worked by the Spirit of Christ in the heart of an ALREADY justified, regenerated and adopted elect by the free and sovereign activities of God, without any human cooperation?
11. HERE IS A BIG ONE: Are the statements of your Confession a faithful summary of the Bible's teaching? Do you believe them?
I have asked simple questions.
I would be grateful for some simple answers to clear my puzzle.
Thank you for entertaining an 'erring' brother.
sing
----------
"And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not" Acts 28:24
POSTSCRIPT
But here is the standard and popular ordo salutis of the Reformed people:
(taken from a reformed website, Monergism)
1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30).
The WCF's statements above plainly taught the Bible's order of salvation (in the application part of the redemption)
1. Effectual call by the free and sovereign grace of God
- Justification - righteousness freely applied to each individual personally
- Regeneration - justification of life secures the regeneration to life
- Adoption (together with the gift of the Spirit of adoption dwelling in God's children, working all saving graces in them, including faith.)
The Divine act of effectual call makes an elect perfectly and completely fitted for glory. Nothing more is needed for his eternal salvation. It is finished and completely secured by God's free and sovereign grace.
The gospel ministry is needed for his temporal salvation... i.e. for his spiritual well-being here in this present life.
a. Gospel call through the gospel ministry ministered by men.
- Initial conversion: in repentance and faith
- Farther sanctification: lifelong conversion through the ministry of the word.
Effectual Call [this deals with the eternal salvation of the elect, every elect without exception
is effectually called; with each one justified, regenerated and adopted in exactly the same
way, on the same basis, to the same extent; perfectly fitted for eternal glory.]
- justification
- regeneration
- adoption
Gospel Call [this deals with the temporal salvation or the well-being of God's children, each experience the gospel call to a vastly varying degree; some none, many little, and a few more, depending on so many human factors.
Glorification
read these related article too.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/order-of-salvation.html
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2010/10/messing-up-romans-829-30-ordo-salutis.html
The gospel ministry is needed for his temporal salvation... i.e. for his spiritual well-being here in this present life.
a. Gospel call through the gospel ministry ministered by men.
- Initial conversion: in repentance and faith
- Farther sanctification: lifelong conversion through the ministry of the word.
Effectual Call [this deals with the eternal salvation of the elect, every elect without exception
is effectually called; with each one justified, regenerated and adopted in exactly the same
way, on the same basis, to the same extent; perfectly fitted for eternal glory.]
- justification
- regeneration
- adoption
Gospel Call [this deals with the temporal salvation or the well-being of God's children, each experience the gospel call to a vastly varying degree; some none, many little, and a few more, depending on so many human factors.
Glorification
read these related article too.
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/order-of-salvation.html
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2010/10/messing-up-romans-829-30-ordo-salutis.html
