"Faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, and Calvinists believe this" boasted a Calvinist.
I inquired, "But how can faith, an effect of salvation by God's free grace be a necessary requirement for the same salvation?"
Are you thinking? Or has sound-byte-ism dulls your minds unto shibboleth-ism?
If faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, then there is no hope whatsoever for those elect incapable of hearing, understanding and believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Such are damned.
If faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, then those without salvation is able to exercise faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved!
An error will spawn more errors.
Sing F Lau
The Calvinists DO NOT really believe that eternal salvation is by grace alone... because they insist that men MUST do something in order to appropriate that salvation for themselves.
The Scriptures teaches pure grace, and grace ALONE:
- God purposed eternal salvation for His elect...
- Jesus secured that eternal redemption for His elect...
- The Holy Spirit applies that eternal redemption to each elect at effectual calling when he is still in his native state of sin and death...
And once that eternal redemption is applied, by God's free and sovereign grace alone, an elect is perfectly fitted for eternal glory. Nothing more needed.
The gospel ministry is ordained, and is relevant, and intended for such only - i.e. those to whom God has freely and sovereignly applied eternal redemption personally - for their well-being as God's children here on earth.
This is salvation by grace, and grace alone. No human cooperation or aid at all.
Calvinists insist that a man must do something to appropriate the eternal redemption for himself - such as believing in order for the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to him!
BOTH the Calvinists and their cousins Arminians have made faith the instrumental means to obtain eternal salvation... while it is PLAIN as the noon day sun that faith is an effect and fruit of eternal salvation ALREADY applied by God's free and sovereign grace alone.See More
Schalk
I don't know which Calvinists you talk to, but it seems you're ubder a misconception. I'm a Calvinist, and what you're saying about us is simply not true.
Robert
100% error. Sadly, Sing. Think before you type my brother.
Sing F Lau
SS, so, what is my misconception? Please elaborate.
Please remember, there are all sorts of 'calvinists' out there!
Robert, which part that I have written misrepresent you a Calvinist?
Do Calvinists not believe that a man is justified by God, i.e. Christ's righteousness is imputed to him, when he believes? That's the uniform view of calvinists that I am acquainted with.
Sing F Lau
The Calvinists DO NOT really believe that eternal salvation is by grace alone... EVEN though they claim and insist that they do... because they insist that men MUST do something in order to appropriate that salvation for themselves.
They confuse eternal salvation of the elect (in their native state of sin and death) solely by the free grace of God... which was purposed, accomplished, is applied and will be consummated all solely by God's free grace, and the temporal salvation of God's children conditioned upon their obedience to the will of the Father for them.See More
Schalk
We believe that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us upon regeneration, the fruit of which is faith in Him. All of which were predetermined in the eternal council of God before the foundation of the world. It's all grace and grace alone.... We do not believe that we have to do something to appropriate salvation to ourselves. The fact that we believe is grace, for we do not generate that faith in and by ourselves. Its a work of the Spirit in our hearts, and it is irresistible.See More
Sing F Lau
We believe that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us upon regeneration.
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Adam's sin was IMPUTED LEGALLY to all he represented in the fall.
EVEN SO, Christ's righteousness was IMPUTED LEGALLY to all He represented on the cross.
The condemnation of death of Adam's sin is APPLIED PERSONALLY at conception.
The justification of life of Christ's righteousness is APPLIED PERSONALLY at the effectual calling of an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and eternal salvation.
With the righteousness of Christ applied to an elect personally, the justification of life gave divine warrant for the Holy Spirit's wok of regeneration. The regenerated is adopted, and given the gift of the Spirit of adoption... who works all saving graces in the heart of a child of God.
The grace of faith is drawn forth by the gospel ministry... evidencing the PRIOR work free and gracious work of justification and regeneration.
Do Calvinists believe the same as this teaching from the Scriptures?See More
Bienvenid
Yes and Amen. There are only two main characters in the bible. The first Adam and the second Adam. All are representative works of these two main characters.
Daniel
John 3: 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Sing, Faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, and Calvinists believe this. That does not make salvation a wage paid for work done to merit salvation. The Bible also says that without holiness no man will see the Lord. That does not ...make sanctification a work that earns salvation from God, because the Christian pursues holiness. Salvation has conditions, and the Calvinist recognizes that those conditions are not possible without the working of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Salvation is of the Lord.
Sola Gracia
[sing: sola gracia PLUS the necessity of man's faith in Christ! So you see, Calvinists double talks, like double-tongued snakes!]
Schalk
Well said, Daniel
Sing F Lau
"Faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, and Calvinists believe this. "
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May I said this is the most illogical and nonsensical statement? That is why I say Calvinist DON'T believe in free grace salvation.
And here is the very simple and plain reason.
Faith is a saving grace, a FRUIT and EFFECT of salvation ALREADY bestowed, is it not? No? Will any Calvinist worth his salt DENY that faith is a fruit of salvation ALREADY bestowed?
Isn't faith, believing and resting in Jesus Christ, an EFFECT of the eternal life ALREADY bestowed by the free and sovereign act of effectual call to grace and salvation? No? Will any Calvinist worth his salt DENY that faith is a fruit of salvation ALREADY bestowed?
How can an FRUIT and EFFECT of salvation be the requirement for that salvation? Have Calvinists lost their mind?
No, no, no. Faith is the evidence and manifestation of the salvation ALREADY bestowed by God's free and sovereign grace.
It is 'the just shall live by faith.'
It is NOT NOT NOT, 'the unjustified shall be justified by faith and live.'
Calvinists DO NOT believe in salvation by God's free grace... though they are a little less inconsistent than their Arminian cousins they despise!
Sing F Lau
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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I suggest that you read this. You may yet learn some truth, if the Lord is willing...
An exposition on Eph 2:8-9
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
Things New and Old: Saved by grace through faith – whose faith?
Sing F Lau
"Faith is a necessary requirement for salvation, and Calvinists believe this. "
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This is like saying,
"Breath is a necessary requirement for life, and dead men believe this."
But breath is an activity of life, a manifestation of life already possessed!
How could breath be a necessary requirement for a dead man to have life? Only a dead man that has been quickened has breath.
Breathing is an activity of life, thus it cannot be a requirement for life, i.e. to get life, MUCH LESS a necessary
requirement!
How could faith, an effect of salvation by God's free grace be a necessary requirement for the same salvation? That is pure nonsense, and it repudiates the 'sola gracia' they so love to boast!
Schalk
You are right Sing, we Calvinists deny sovereign grace. We actually believe that we save ourselves. We regenerate ourselves, we sanctify ourselves and God owe us salvation because of our good works and holy nature. We decided by our own free will that we want to follow Jesus, and we are doing so by our own strength. Sovereign grace is nowhere to be found in our theology.
Sing F Lau
Those are your words, not mine.
'Faith is a necessary requirement for salvation' is a plain example of the repudiation of salvation by sovereign grace.
Why don't Calvinists just admit it that from one side of their mouth they claim to affirm sovereign grace, and from the other side of the same mouth they repudiate sovereign grace... because of their inconsistencies?
Instead of insisting that faith is a CONDITION (a requirement is a condition that men must meet) for salvation, why don't just admit that faith is an EVIDENCE of salvation by God's sovereign grace?
What is the use of sarcasm? Humble admission would be honorable.
Are the Calvinists so complete in their understanding that they have arrived, and have no inconsistencies and deficiencies to amend?
That statement is just one of them. There are several more serious than that...
