Was the activity of the wind seen here or anywhere dependent upon the presence or activities of men?Then why so many preachers insist that the Spirit's activity of regeneration depends on their activity of preaching?
Let God be true, but every man a liar.
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One of the central tenets of Calvinism teaches that the gospel preaching is a necessary aid for the Spirit's work of regeneration. This popular notion is CONTRARY to the Holy Scripture. Gospel preaching is a necessary instrument for the conversion of God's children.
Here are some exchanges on the subject. Let each man be persuaded in his own mind.
Sainz
the evangelical Calvinist earnestly calls all men to repentance, not because, on their own, they are able to respond, but because we are commanded to the cast forth powerful word of God as a seed to which the Holy Spirit sovereignly enables men to respond as He applies the grace of regeneration to His elect, to those the Father has given to the Son as a bride from eternity (John 6:37, 39).
Hacker III
good stuff
Lochridge
Blessed truth.
Sing F Lau
That's gospel regeneration, the Holy Spirit needs the preaching of the gospel in order to do His work of regeneration. That will exclude some elect from being regenerated, unless you have an exception clause to include such... an idea which begets a bigger problem.
How does the Holy Spirit then regenerate those elect who are incapable, for various reasons, of being reached with the gospel preaching?
Is there an alternative way to regenerate them apart from the gospel ministry?
If yes, then what do you make of Christ's own plain statement, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO IS EVERY ONE THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT"?
The words "so is every one that is born of the Spirit" permit of no exception. It permits of ONLY one way in regeneration, and it applies equally to each and every single elect.
God the Spirit regenerated directly and immediately... WITHOUT any instrumental means, and it is the same to EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit. This alone ensures and guarantees that every single elect is regenerated.
Every farmer knows perfectly well that the wind blows with absolute sovereignty, totally independent of his presence or activities. He can only observe the effects - if there twigs on the ground, windfall, fallen trees, etc... then he knows that the wind has blown.
Only a few preachers seem to realize the same truth about the work of the Spirit of God in regeneration.
Sing F Lau
The Ethiopian eunuch, and Cornelius were regenerated long before the gospel were brought to them. These two, and many others in the Scriptures debunk the popular myth of gospel regeneration.
Powell
Sing, I think that Michael is speaking of the ordinary call of the Gospel and the ordinary means. God has ordained the means as well as the result. As God, He does as He pleases. working by the means, without the means, or against the means. As He chooses. The Lord knows those that are His, but those who name the name of Christ are called to depart from iniquity. We are called to preach the Gospel to every creature; God does as He pleases.
God can send the ravens to feed the prophet; but ordinarily the prophet must work for his bread, the ordinary means. It is tempting God to ignore the ordinary means and "trust" God to provide extraordinary ones. God can send angels to catch you, but not if you play the fool and jump off the temple.
Jesus illustrated the method: He told Nicodemus about the work of the Spirit as the wind, but He still preached the Gospel to him.
Sing F Lau
The preaching of the gospel was ordained for the CONVERSION of God's children, NOT as a means necessary for the REGENERATION of sinners dead in trespasses and sins! Regeneration brings eternal life to the dead; gospel preaching gives LIGHT to God's children.
Yes, God does as He pleases... and He is mighty pleased to regenerate, to produce His children, without the help of preachers! No man fathers his children by the help of midwives! Yet some self-conceited midwives would insist otherwise! Even so, many preachers insist that God, whom they say does as He pleases, needs their preaching activity for Him to quicken the dead!
There is NO ordinary means NOR special means in regeneration. Regeneration is WITHOUT any means. Regeneration is by the direct and immediate power of the God. No means needed at all. The gospel ministry is the means divinely appointed for the CONVERSION of God's children, those whom He Himself has quickened by Hid Spirit based on the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Milne
Sing - for starters, there's the issue of James 1 and 1 Peter 1 that you still have to deal with... and it's speculative presumption to claim that there are some elect that God has chosen to save yet has chosen to not give them the gospel. The witness of the New Testament is that regeneration causes faith in the gospel... it is not therefore unreasonable to say that the Holy Spirit needs the preaching of the gospel in order to regenerate them and cause faith in the gospel. Check the example of Lydia in Acts 16... Paul preached, and God opened her eyes. We'll grant the exception of John the Baptist, but his role is certainly not normative for the New Testament believer. And why would you think that the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius were regenerated long before the gospel was brought to them? Are you claiming that it's ordinary for regenerate people to not believe the gospel? Check the John 3 passage... it blows where it wills, but people see and hear the effect of it. The effect of regeneration is faith in the gospel. It would be like going somewhere where we see and hear no evidence of wind, and then claiming that because the wind blows where it wills, that it's blowing there, too.
The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit. The Spirit does not go around conquering the rebellious hearts of men without His weapon. By arguing for a chronological separation of regeneration and faith in the gospel, you are arguing for an ineffective regeneration, a blowing of the wind without effect, a Holy Spirit that does not make men holy...
Sing F Lau
Milne, please state precisely what are the issues of James 1 and 1 Peter 1 that need to be dealt with.
As for the CONVERSION of Lydia... please note that PRIOR to Paul's gospel ministry to her, Lydia was ALREADY a worshipper of God. If you wish to continue to believe that she was still UN-regenerate, therefore STILL in her native state of sin and death, but was ALSO a worshipper of God.
"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."
Whose heart the Lord opened simply means God granted her understanding of the spiritual things spoken to her by Paul. God opens the heart of His children.... God needs to regenerate those that are still dead in their trespasses and sins.
Powell
"from a child you have known the holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise...." Do not neglect means.
Sing F Lau
Amen, do not neglect the means, because the means will make you wise... instructs and informs you ABOUT the salvation that God has bestowed on you by His FREE grace. The means PLAYS no role whatsoever in the bestowing or the securing of the salvation. The means makes you wise - instructs, educates and enlightens you - in the salvation that God has bestowed on you.
Do not neglect milk and meat, for they will nourish you... but milk and meat play NO role in the bestowal of the life whatsoever!
Sing F Lau
Bud@ "I think that Michael is speaking of the ordinary call of the Gospel and the ordinary means."
'Ordinary call... ordinary means' - these necessarily imply special call and special means.
Can you please tell us what they are?
Don't you think Christ's words exclude all such idea about the ordinary and special means?
I mentioned this before... read it again.
If yes, then what do you make of Christ's own plain statement, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: SO IS EVERY ONE THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT"?
The words "so is every one that is born of the Spirit" permit of no exception, whether ordinary means, and special means. It permits of ONLY one way in regeneration, and it applies equally to each and every single elect, and it is by the direct and immediate power of the God in quickening the dead.
Do I make sense?
Powell
Sing, it does not say make you wise "about" salvation, but make you wise "unto salvation." Jesus put it this way, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."
Sing F Lau
Powell@"Jesus put it this way, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."
I hope you don't put the words of preachers in the same category and same level with the living giving words of the Christ, the Eternal Logos.
Christ alone could summoned Lazarus out of his death. No apostles or preachers could do that.
All that the apostles could do was to help remove the grave cloth from the resurrected Lazarus... to free him from the bondage of the grace cloth.
Powell
Acts 11: 13 And he showed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Sing F Lau
Powell@"Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved..."
You ever asked, "saved from what?"
Saved from eternal condemnation and hell?
Or save ignorance and darkness concerning their glorious salvation ALREADY bestowed upon them by God's free grace?
1Ti 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." The gospel ministry brings light and understanding, thus saving God's children from darkness of lies and falsehood and superstition. A faithful gospel ministry SAVES BOTH the preacher himself and those under his charge. It has nothing to do with eternal salvation... it saves in the temporal sense... delivering from timely evils.
Powell
1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Regeneration is of incorruptible seed, by the word of God.
Sing F Lau
Powell@ "Regeneration is of incorruptible seed, by the word of God. "
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What is the incorruptible seed spoken of? Scriptures have been corrupted by many... the gospel too!
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." Who or what is the word of God that lives and abides forever? Who or what is the word of God?
Re 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."
Heb 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."
Who do the personal pronouns 'his' and 'him' refer to? The word of God, do they not?
Have you consider that the Word of God is none other than the life-giving Eternal Logos, the second person of the Godhead?
If regeneration is by the Eternal life-giving Logos, then when there was no written word or the gospel preaching - and there was a VERY LONG PERIOD when there was none of both - regeneration of God's elect took place AS USUAL.
SO IS EVERY ONE - no exception... not some by ordinary means, and others by special means, whatever they are - that is born of the Spirit!
Milne
James 1:18 - "Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
God regenerated us...
1) of his own will
2) by the word of truth
The first does not negate the second. The fact that God regenerated us by his own will (the whole point of the John 3 passage) does not negate the fact that he used the means of the preaching of the gospel.
1 Peter 1:22-25 - "Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for 'All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.' And this word is the good news that was preached to you."
Again, God caused us to be born again (fully in agreement with John 3) through the word of God. And note that Peter makes it explicit - "this word is the good news that was preached to you."
The ordinary means that the Holy Spirit uses in regeneration is the preaching of the gospel.
Sing F Lau
Powell @ "And note that Peter makes it explicit - "this word is the good news that was preached to you."
Plain WRONG. Please read what is said... don't just make it say what you want! Please read slowly and carefully... take the SENSE, not just the SOUND-BYTE!
"And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." The word and the gospel are clearly distinct... by the preaching of the gospel 'the word' is made known. The gospel is NOT the word; the word is made known by the preaching of the gospel.
When, where and how the wind blows is absolutelyindependent of the presence and activities of men.
Few seem to understand this basic fact.
Sing F Lau
Milne@ "The ordinary means that the Holy Spirit uses in regeneration is the preaching of the gospel."
If preaching is the ordinary means in regeneration, then what is the special means? Then how many ways of regeneration are there? But Christ has declared in the plainest term possible... the same way of regeneration applies to every one that is born of His Spirit. So, how?
Powell
Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Powell
1Cor 11Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
But I refrain from further comment.
Sing F Lau
Powell@1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
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When the gospel come to THEM THAT ARE SAVED... the preaching of the cross speaks of the power of God in saving them. THEM THAT ARE SAVED are there first... the gospel ministry came to them... the gospel is the message speaking of God's power of saving them.
TO THEM PERISH, the same gospel is perceived as a foolishness.
The message play no role in their regeneration. They are already SAVED before the gospel came to inform and instruct them of the power of God in saving them.
Message has no power to save. Message informs and educates the hearers of the power of God unto salvation.
Sing F Lau
Nate@ "And why would you think that the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius were regenerated long before the gospel was brought to them?"
Concerning Ethiopian eunuch, here was a man who traveled all the way from the far south to Jerusalem TO WORSHIP God... he was a man earnestly reading and searching the Scriptures. If you insist that he was UN-regenerate, still in his native state of sin and death, then you probably believe that a man dead in trespasses and sin DOES worship the God of the Bible!
Concerning Cornelius the Italian, have you not read.... "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway." God even sent His angel to inform him that He is pleased with him. You see an UN-regenerate man here?
All I can respectfully say is, "Please take off the coloured glasses and read them again... and let them say what they say! Don't make it say what you want it to say!
Of the man in their native state, it is declared, "there is none that seeketh after God.... there is no fear of God before their eyes...'
Cornelius was a man that sought after God... and feared God with all his house... and you pronounced him an UN-regenerate man! I am lost for words! What arrogance!
Powell
Except this: 1Thess. 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Milne
Oh, but why bother with the Ethiopian eunuch or Cornelius? Let's come up with a better example... how about Nicodemus, a member of the Sanhedrin and a teacher of Israel? Surely he must have been regenerated, too? Why, he even sought out Christ to go ask him about eternal life! He must have been regenerated then!
But wait... Christ says to him, "you must be born again." Without the Spirit's work of regeneration, bringing about faith in the gospel... all of Nicodemus' worship of God, all of his fearing of God, all of his seeking after God, all of his earnestly reading and searching the Scriptures... even with all of that, he would not see the kingdom of heaven. And just as Nicodemus needed to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, so likewise the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius needed to be regenerated.
Sing F Lau
Milne@ "But wait... Christ says to him, "you must be born again."
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A basic error is made.
Christ DIDN'T say that. The statement He made is not addressed to Nicodemus personally, not in the second personal singular. Christ declared a statement of truth to Nicodemus. He was not telling Nicodemus that he must be born again.
Christ DID say, "Except a man be born again." He was making a general statement of truth, in the 3rd personal singular, about the absolute necessity of regeneration... to which He later added that regeneration is the free and sovereign work of His Spirit.
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." 'Thee" is second person singular, and 'ye' is the second person plural. Christ did not say to Nicodemus, "THOU must be born again."
What Nicodemus said about Christ in verse 2 shows that he is seeing the kingdom of God in the person of Christ. In light of what is said by Nicodemus concerning Christ and His work, Jesus Christ attributed that to the fact of regeneration, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Powell
Sing. The history does not teach the doctrine. The doctrinal passages do. Yes, Cornelius and the Ethiopian were worshippers of God, just as thousands of people are today, who are not regenerate. You are reading in regeneration where it doesn't exist. The Ethiopian couldn't even understand what he was reading, and Cornelius was sent to Peter to hear the words by which he could be saved.
You should be speechless.
Sing F Lau
Powell@ "The history does not teach the doctrine. The doctrinal passages do."
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So, not doctrine taught in the historical Pentateuch? Or the first 5 historical books of the NT?
You evidently missed this declaration here!
"ALL SCRIPTURE is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable FOR DOCTRINE...."
All Scripture, not just the doctrinal passages!
History, the record of God's activity in redemption is in perfect harmony with the doctrine revealed.
Let God be true and every man a LIAR!
Sing F Lau
Powell @ "You are reading in regeneration where it doesn't exist. The Ethiopian couldn't even understand what he was reading, and Cornelius was sent to Peter to hear the words by which he could be saved."
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It is true the Ethiopian eunuch didn't understand much. But would you use that to dismiss him from being regenerated and a child of God?
That's precisely why the gospel ministry was sent to him, to grant him understanding, to give him light.
Did you overlook this in Eph 4:
11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"
The Galatians believers were in a far worse situation... they rejected what they had believed before through Apostle Paul's ministry. Even that can happen to God's children!
Powell
Sing, you would separate Christ from the Holy Spirit.
Sing F Lau
powell@ "you would separate Christ from the Holy Spirit."
How so? Or is that just a wild accusation? The Holy Spirit is sent forth by Christ, to regenerate those whom He has purchased and redeemed. Jesus Christ gives eternal life, and He does it through His Spirit. They work in perfect unity and harmony.
John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
John 17:2 "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."
Christ Himself said of His Spirit's activity: " 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Christ Himself is the life-giving Eternal Logos, and He gives eternal life THROUGH the regenerating activity of HIS Spirit.
The Father's will is executed by Christ through His Spirit. They work in perfect unison and complete harmony.
Powell
"I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." You are refuted over and over by Scripture which who denigrate, Sing. Give it up. You make the Holy Spirit the Savior, and that is heresy.
Sing F Lau
Powell@"I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
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A popular passage, but often wrongly divided.
The gospel is the good news... good news because it declares of what God HAS DONE to secure the eternal salvation of His people. The good news is not the OFFER of what God will do if we comply with the condition - but that's what so many people think! The offer won't be good news at all - because men dead in trespasses and sin WILL NOT meet the condition of eternal salvation.
Good news is the message, the message that declares the eternal salvation that God had purposed, and accomplished through His Christ, and have APPLIED it to the elect personally by the work of the Holy Spirit.
The message itself has no power to save any. The message informs and educates and enlightens God's children of what has taken place by God's free and sovereign grace. ONLY the LIVING, those already regenerated are capable of being informed, educated and enlightened with the truth of their salvation by God's free grace.
The same message is perceived by one as a message babbling of foolishness.... but received by another a message declaring the power of God in saving them.... yes, to every one of them that BELIEVES, the message speaks of the power of God in salvation.
ONLY - ONLY - ONLY them that have been born of God, regenerated, is capable of believing the gospel message brought to them.
Paul declared, "18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
To them which ARE SAVED (effectually called out of the state of sin and death to righteousness and eternal life), the message of the cross speaks of the power of God in saving them.
When the gospel preaching come to them THAT ARE SAVED (with eternal salvation by free grace), believing in Christ is made possible. In believing in Christ, they save themselves from lies and errors and falsehood.
Sing F Lau
Powell @ "18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."
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Apostle Paul has NOTHING to do with regenerating anyone.
All that the Apostle Paul was told to do has SPECIFIC REFERENCE to them WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED... i.e. them which has been separated from their state of sin and death by the free grace of God through the faith that is in Christ alone... i.e on the finished work of Christ
ONLY the regenerated alone, i.e the children of God, their eyes can be opened to the truth through the gospel ministry, they can be turned from darkness of lies and errors to the light of God's truth, and be turned from the deceiving power of Satan... to God.
Powell
That is your trouble, Sing. You do not really believe that you have the gospel or that you have the scriptures.
Sing F Lau
Powell, you are quite mistaken. I have the gospel as revealed in the Holy Scriptures. But that's not the issue. The issue is, regeneration is a direct and immediate work of God, through His Spirit based on the finished work of His Son. The gospel, the good news of eternal salvation in Jesus Christ is ordained for the instruction and enlightenment of His children, that they may be converted to the truth of their salvation by God's free grace.
But you insist that there can be no regeneration WITHOUT man's preaching!
Powell
Sing, you are very ignorant of the doctrine of Scripture as well as other things. Verbal revelation was given in the Garden of Eden and the promise of Christ was given. The first "Bible" but not necessarily the first writing was the books of Moses a very long time ago. Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken, and appealed to them again and again. He also said that his words would not pass away.
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You, Sing, are a heretic. Of course you downgrade scripture, so you can invent your own doctrine. As I said before, you should be speechless.
The scriptures are able [powerful] to make you wise....
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God which must be preached by those who are sent [Rom 10 context] Whosoever shall call....shall be saved. How shall they call without faith. How shall they call on him whom they have not heard. How shall they hear without a preacher? You invent some nameless act that you call regeneration, separate it from Christ, the Scripture, and the Gospel and preach it for truth. You would penetrate the mysteries of God which you claim to understand better than the doctrine of Scripture which has been cited to you over and over again on this thread. You must cease and desist.
By this, you trust in your "regeneration" and do not believe the Bible, the writings inspired by the Holy Spirit, and therefore set the Spirit against Himself and against the Scripture and against the Lord Jesus. Cease and Desist.
Sing F Lau
Powell@ "Sing, you are very ignorant of the doctrine of Scripture as well as other things. Verbal revelation was given in the Garden of Eden and the promise of Christ was given. "
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I gladly affirm that you are learned in whatever you think of yourself.
May I ask, was Adam regenerated? If he was, how was he regenerated? And was the manner he was regenerated the same as the manner you were regenerated (I assume you are a child of God).
Is the statement of Christ below true of Adam, as well as for you? "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Is 'so is every one that is born of the Spirit' equally true of you and Adam?
Sing F Lau
Powell@ "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God which must be preached by those who are sent [Rom 10 context] Whosoever shall call....shall be saved. How shall they call without faith."
It is faith cometh by hearing. It is not regeneration or life cometh by hearing! Hearing the gospel draw forth the faith already worked in a child of God... someone ALREADY regenerated prior to the preaching of the gospel to draw out that grace of faith in him. The grace of faith in a child of God (a regenerate, i.e.) is drawn forth by the preaching of the gospel.
The spiritual ability to hear cometh by the Life-giving Word of God, Christ who gives eternal life through His Spirit, not by the hearing of the preach word of God.
You asked, 'how shall they call without faith'? That's your question. Apostle Paul DID NOT have the problem of WITHOUT FAITH. Apostle Paul deal with those who has the grace of faith... and preaching is needed to draw out that faith in them. That's why Apostle Paul asked these rhetorical questions: " 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Preaching is very necessary for the CONVERSION of God's children... those who are capable of HEARING, BELIEVING and CALLING, faith comes by hearing, therefore the gospel must be preached, that God's children may be brought to faith, i.e. converted.
Powell
Michael. I am sorry to have taken up so much space on your site. I will wipe my feet and go home. Every blessing to you.
Sing F Lau
Friends, thanks for the exchanges in this thread.
