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Monergism of SOUND-BYTE and FURY only,
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Monergism of SENSE and FACT?
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Do you really believe in Salvation by grace alone?
Is your grace really grace, or is it a mixture of grace and works?
Examine it. Purge out the adulteration!
Examine it. Purge out the adulteration!
Monergism began with this quote:
"A man is opposed to Christ, he hates his gospel, does not understand it and will not receive it-- the Holy Spirit comes, puts light into his darkened understanding, takes the chain from his bondaged will, gives liberty to his conscience, gives life to his dead soul, ... and the man becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus." - C.H. Spurgeon
Sing F Lau
Let me inquire: does the Holy Spirit do those things BEFORE or AFTER (i.e. logically, not chronologically) the Father has removed the condemnation of death through the imputation of the righteousness of life?
Does the Holy Spirit do such things to one who is still under the condemnation of death, or does He do such thing to one whom the Father has already justified, i.e. removed the condemnation of death, and applied the righteousness of life?
Which must happen first logically: justification by God the Father, or regeneration by God the Spirit?
Are any immorality and lawlessness involved for the Spirit to give life to one who is still under a condemnation of death whom God the Father has not freely justified by His grace?
Monergism
Sing, you are thinking in temporal terms. There is no time sequence which takes place here. Regeneration and Justification occur simultaneously, concurrently. Like heat and fire. One has causal priority though. If you hit a pool ball it rolls and strikes another. Which one hits first? Neither. They both strike at the same time YET one causes the other to move. Likewise, regeneration of the Spirit works faith in a man, he believes and is justified. 1 John 5:1 says all who believe "HAVE BEEN born of God" (past tense with continual action). As Packer said, "The saving power of the cross does not depend on faith being added to it; its saving power is such that faith flows from it." Salvation is a whole package. All these blessings flow from the cross ... but the Spirit takes these blessings and applies them to those the Father has given the Son (John 6:37, 63,65).
Sing F Lau
You state it correctly: 'regeneration and justification occur simultaneously.' I would insist that LOGICALLY and CAUSALLY, it is justification precedes regeneration.
Granted that 'regeneration and justification occur simultaneously', and that regeneration precedes faith (most certainly chronologically in this case... it always takes time for a regenerated to hear and understand, and then believe) - then the popular notion that justification is by faith alone is obviously and plainly an error! Justification PRECEDES faith.
"The reason why any are justified IS NOT because they have faith; but the reason why they have faith IS because they are justified." A Circular Letter on JUSTIFICATION issued by Philadelphia Baptist Association on October 4th, 1785.
Justification by God involves the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the ungodly condemned man; God declaring a guilty condemned man not guilty but righteous. A guilty condemned man is incapable of believing in order to be justified by God.
Justification by faith involves the imputation of believer's faith to the believer (as in Gen 15), i.e. God blessing the faith of the believer unto the believer such that he EXPERIENCES the blessedness of his justified stated by God's free grace. Believing, he EVIDENCES that he is a justified man by God's free grace.
God justifies the UNGODLY: God declares a guilty condemned sinner not guilty but righteous by imputing the righteousness of Christ to the guilty condemned sinners.
Faith justifies the believing ones: faith declares that the believing ones are the justified AND regenerated of God!
The two aspects of justification are VERY difference.
Read this article here to note the vast difference!
http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2009/09/therefore-as-arminians-reject-doctrine.html
Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology!
Monergism
Sing, you said, "it always takes time for a regenerated to hear and understand" ... I would revise this statement simply because the Scripture declares that we are born through the word of truth. These things do not happen in a void. The gospel which we cast indiscriminately is like a seed to which the Holy Spirit germinates, so to speak, where He wills. When spoken in the power of the Holy Spirit, the word of God has the power to graciously open people's eyes, unplug their uncircumcised ears, change the disposition of their hearts, draw them to faith, and save them (James 1:18, 1 Peter 1:23, 25). 1 Thes 1:4, 5 shows word and Spirit cannot be separated: "For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction..." Calvin said, "the Lord has so knit together the certainty of his word and his Spirit, that our minds are duly imbued with reverence for the word when the Spirit shining upon it enables us there to behold the face of God; and, on the other hand, we embrace the Spirit with no danger of delusion when we recognize him in his image, that is, in his word."
Sing F Lau
You do believe in gospel regeneration (the gospel is the necessary means in regeneration), don't you? I don't. However, I do believe in gospel CONVERSION!
Was Abraham a justified and regenerated man in Gen 12-14?
Was Cornelius a regenerated man before he ever heard the gospel from Peter?
Monergism
Sing, Thank you for your thoughts. Imho, logic must always submit to the Scripture.
1 Pet 23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God
18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Cornelius heard the old testament and was justified through it well before Peter came along. This did not happen in some void.
Appreciate your comments but this is not the forum to get into a further long discussion about this. We definitely have different understandings of this issue.
Sing F Lau
The whole Scriptures is logical. God communicates LOGICALLY with RATIONAL creatures, especially those with a SOUND mind!
I believe the living and abiding word in 1Pet 1:23 refers to the eternal life-giving Word, the eternal life-giving Logos, and not the preached or written word.
Cornelius was enough to dismiss the popular errors that regeneration, justification, and faith are simultaneous.
Sing F Lau
I am pretty certain that you understand that legal Justification by and before God requires the imputation of Christ's righteousness (for there is none other available) to a condemned criminal. Imputation of faith, the act of believing, HAS NOTHING to do with the justification of a guilty condemned man before God - even though nearly everyone thinks so. There is near wholesale delusion and deception in modern time!
Read this simple definition of Justification from an old confession of faith, and say what you think:
"Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth,(1) not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous;(2) not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone;(3) not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in His death for their whole and sole righteousness,(4) they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.(5)"
And please remember that justification by God's grace is a distinct act, separate, and prior to the reception of the justification through faith.
Did you read those words, "NOT BY IMPUTING FAITH ITSELF..." but nearly everyone mutter 'justification by faith alone.'
Did you read those words, NOT BY "ANY OTHER EVANGELICAL OBEDIENCE TO THEM" - faith, the act of believing is an evangelical obedience!
Did you read those words, "NOT FOR ANYTHING DONE IN THEM..." - faith is something worked and done in them!
Did you notice those words, "... He also FREELY justifieth..."
If justification is by faith in any way or sense, then justification is conditioned on faith in some way or manner, THEN justification is no longer by God's free grace!
Why are those who claim themselves to be the descendants of those who frame those doctrinal confessions are SO BLINDED to the plain and simple truth summarized by their forefathers, and insisted on the mantra of justification by faith alone, while the Scriptures declares, "... and NOT by faith only."
Read more here: http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/by-faith-alone-vs-not-by-faith-alone.html
Monergism
Yes, no one disagrees with you on this Sing. Salvation is by grace ALONE. Faith being a product of that grace. That is the whole focus of Monergism.com. Justification through faith was important to the Reformers because it helped to express and to safeguard their answer to another, MORE vital, question, namely, whether sinners are wholly helpless in their sin, and whether God is to be thought of as saving them by free, unconditional, invincible grace, not only justifying them for Christ's sake when they come to faith, but also raising them from the death of sin by His quickening Spirit in order to bring them to faith.
Sing F Lau
"...not only justifying them for Christ's sake WHEN they come to faith..."
On moment you say, 'no one disagrees with you on this, "salvation is by grace ALONE" and in the next breath, your statement shows that you are still in deep disagreement against the truth summarized in the Confession of faith. You affirmed your agreement with the heresy of legal justification by faith alone. In these words, you have just stated the SERIOUS ERROR again - justification by their faith!
They come to faith BECAUSE they HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED! Not IN ORDER to be justified!
Along the way, some monumental and subtle error took place. The crafty devil caused the careless and unthinking children to exchange pure gold the fathers left to them for a lump of gold looking dung!
Let me explain.
The Scriptures teach that God FREELY justifies an ungodly condemned dead man by His grace, by imputing the righteousness of life to him and forgiving him all his sins. This gives divine warrant for the Spirit to regenerate this justified man.
Thus FREELY justified and regenerated by grace, this man is able to believe when the gospel ministry is brought to him. In believing, his faith justifies him, i.e. his faith certifies, demonstrates, evidences, and vindicates that he is ALREADY justified and regenerated by God's FREE grace, his believing gives him the authority to claim that he is a child of God, since 'whoever believes HAS eternal life' - believing EVIDENCES eternal life.
This is where the disaster took place.
The LEGAL justification by God's FREE grace is not distinguished from the EXPERIENTIAL justification by believer's faith.
WORSE STILL, the experiential justification by believer's faith is CONFUSED AS, and FUSED WITH the legal justification by God's free grace.
Thus they end up with the damnable heresy of legal justification by believer's faith, and by believer's faith only!
How the devil has succeeded in deceiving so many to embrace a lie as though it is the truth!
You said, "Salvation is by grace ALONE. Faith being a product of that grace. "
My simple questions,
- How could faith, a product (fruit and effect) of the grace that freely bestows the salvation become the INSTRUMENT to obtain that same salvation?
- How could faith, a product of the salvation wrought by grace alone, become the instrumental means of receiving that salvation?
What a mess of confusion and irrationalism brought about by sound-bytes!
