Calvinists and Arminians meet at a common point in John 3:16!
John Calvin wrote these words in his comments on John 3:16.
He sounds so much like an typical Arminian!
'For God so loved the world...' - "Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish..." http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom34.ix.iii.html
Here we see some of the classic Arminian fables:
- Christ was offered to be Savior of all men...
- Faith in Christ brings life to all...
- Heavenly Father loves the human race...
- Heavenly Father wishes they should not perish...
Christ was offered to be Saviour... so what is offered is up to sinners dead in trespasses and sins to decide whether to accept or reject. That's a classic Arminian fable!
Faith in Christ brings life to all... so the life-less can believe in Christ in order to bring life! That's a classic Arminian fable!
Heavenly Father loves the human race?... That's a classic Arminian fable! God is Creator of all His creatures, but God is Father only to His children.
Heavenly Father wishes they should not perish?... That's a classic Arminian fable! No, He does not wish, He powerfully saves His elect to the uttermost, effectually calling them OUT of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation, DESPITE their enmity and rebellion.
Who is the true John Calvin of Geneva? Those who love and adore John Calvin, please show us the genuine unvarnished John Calvin, please! December 8 at 4:45pm
Sing F Lau
It is a monumental mistake to read John 3:16 as a statement of offering salvation conditioned on faith in Jesus Christ!
John 3:16 is a statement declaring certain immutable truths concerning God's love:
- The object of His love: the world lost in sin and death and condemnation
- The evidence of His love: He gave His only begotten Son
- The assured blessing of that love: eternal life
- The effect of that eternal life: believes in the Son of God
- The consequence of believing in Christ: should not perish... because they possess everlasting life.
There is absolutely no offer of anything, much less salvation of any sort to any one!
God so loved the world, yes, the world, and not just the Jews, but both Jews and Gentiles of the world - Rev 5:9 'And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.'
The 'world' embraces men 'out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.' That's the quantitative sense of the word. But the 'world' also indicates their spiritual condition - a 'world' that lies in death and condemnation because of sins. That's the qualitative sense of the word 'world'.
His love was shown to such of the world... The 'world' cannot possibly refers to all men of the world. God gave His Son to save His people... that's is His explicit will and Christ understood it. John 6:38 'For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.'See More
Sing F Lau
- The evidence of His love: He gave His only begotten Son:
John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amon...g us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The eternal life-giving Word, the second person of the Godhead was made flesh - thus the Son of God was begotten.
Luke 1
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Thus Jesus is uniquely the only begotten Son of God. None was begotten like him.
Luke 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
God send His only begotten Son to secure eternal redemption for His people... that's the evidence of His 'so loved' the world.
Sing F Lau
- The assured blessing of that love: eternal life.
This eternal life is not offered to any one. If this eternal life is offered to those dead in trespasses and sins, it would be a cruel mockery to them... for how would those spiritually d...ead be able to perform the spiritual act of receiving the offered eternal life? It is a cruel insult and mockery to offer eternal life to those dead in trespasses and sins.
God so loved, he NOT ONLY secured our eternal redemption through His Son Jesus Christ, He also freely and sovereignly APPLY that eternal redemption to each elect in effectually calling them out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation: in applying the righteousness of His Son to them, thus providing the ground for their regeneration unto life, and adopting them into the family of God, and giving the Holy Spirit to dwell in them.
In their NATIVE state of condemnation, death, and slavery, God freely and sovereignly acted on the elect who are in enmity against Him, and effectually calling them into a state of justification, eternal life, and sonship!
God DOES NOT offer salvation, and wait for sinners in enmity against Him to accept His offer! He actively applies the eternal salvation secured and obtained by Jesus Christ to each individual elect personally, bring them out of the state of death to that of eternal life - with his elect contributing nothing at all, and assisting in nothing at all.
And once God has applied that salvation to an elect, that elect is perfectly and completely fitted for eternal glory.
That's salvation by free grace, pure and unadulterated.
But God is not just interested in the eternal glory of His children. He cares for their well-being while here on earth, waiting to enter into their eternal inheritance.
The gospel ministry is ordained and appointed for that end.See More
Historical Redemptive
Welcome back, Bro. Sing!
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Here we see some of the classic Arminian fables:
- Christ was offered to be Saviour of all men...
- Faith in Christ brings life to all...
- Heavenly Father loves the human races...
- Heavenly Father wishes they should not perish...
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Maybe by "all men" Calvin meant "all men" without distinction NOT "all men" without exception.
Maybe by "life" Calvin meant temporal life only and not eternal life.
Maybe by "human race" Calvin meant the human race of the elect.
Maybe by "wishes" Calvin meant "wills."
Give our old brother the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, both Calvin and Arminius are in heaven and laughing out loud over the mess they left on earth!See More
Daniel Hodges
Don't forget that the 'revered' John Calvin also had Michael Servetus burned at the stake, because the man dared to disagree with Calvin's theology in public. Don't forget that Calvin wanted to govern Geneva as a THEOCRACY (i.e - the church IS the state). I don't question his eternal salvation, just the fruits, labors, and legacy that he left behind.
Pj Walters
Even if, as HR suggests, Calvin meant the elect, faith does not bring life. That is just plain wrong.
Sing F Lau
HR, it is weird to me that your name is HR. Why don't you give us your real name!
Welcome here. Be my guest! Among the Chinese, the host welcome the guests; not the reverse!
Calvinism may have some serious inconsistencies; Arminianism is a complete hogwash, another gospel entirely, even though many who embrace those errors are very sweet people, like you! But Calvinism is not much better... being mingled with much Arminianism.
So, don't not too happy just because I point out Calvin's inconsistencies.
He expresses himself quite well, and he needs no benefit of the doubt! Don't come across too condescending!
His 'all men' and the 'human race' are parallel.
His 'wishes' and 'offered' are parallel too.
His 'life' is in the context of John 3:16... everlasting life.
John 3:16 speaks of everlasting life, and what make you think he is speaking of 'temporal life'? I don't see the connection!
And just what is 'temporal life'? Please explain.
Sing F Lau
Here is Calvin's commentary to the clause '... that whosoever believeth on him may not perish' of John 3:16, with three paragraphs, as follow:
Paragraph 1
"It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."
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Remarkable commendation of man's faith in Christ indeed - that is, men's faith in Christ frees them from everlasting destruction... and secures for them an entrance into eternal life. And this is Calvinism - man's faith is an instrumental means to secure eternal salvation.
Bible says faith is a FRUIT and EFFECT of eternal salvation bestowed freely by God's grace.
He repeatedly emphasize the free offer of salvation to all men without distinction, thus 'the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life... to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life... he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world... he invites all men without exception...'
Will God offer eternal life to those whom He did not give Christ to be their Savior? Does God do such contradictory nonsense? Does God actually offer salvation, and wishes those dead in trespasses and sins to accept the eternal life offered? Hmmmm.
Paragraph 2
“Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not common to all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father — that is, as having freed us from the condemnation of eternal death, and made us heirs of eternal life, because, by the sacrifice of his death, he has atoned for our sins, that nothing may prevent God from acknowledging us as his sons. Since, therefore, faith embraces Christ, with the efficacy of his death and the fruit of his resurrection, we need not wonder if by it we obtain likewise the life of Christ."
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May I ask:
So, in the words of Calvin, is it eternal life that enables the believing OR is it believing that is necessary to get the promised eternal life?
Do men believe because they have been made heirs of eternal life, or do they believe in order to obtain the promised eternal life?
The Scriptures declares the former, but Calvin teaches the latter!
Paragraph 3:
"Still it is not yet very evident why and how faith bestows life upon us. Is it because Christ renews us by his Spirit, that the righteousness of God may live and be vigorous in us; or is it because, having been cleansed by his blood, we are accounted righteous before God by a free pardon? It is indeed certain, that these two things are always joined together; but as the certainty of salvation is the subject now in hand, we ought chiefly to hold by this reason, that we live, because God loves us freely by not imputing to us our sins. For this reason sacrifice is expressly mentioned, by which, together with sins, the curse and death are destroyed. I have already explained the object of these two clauses, which is, to inform us that in Christ we regain the possession of life, of which we are destitute in ourselves; for in this wretched condition of mankind, redemption, in the order of time, goes before salvation.”
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So, in the words of Calvin, is the faith that embraces Christ an EVIDENCE of life of Christ already given, or is faith that embraces Christ the MEANS to OBTAIN the life of Christ? The Scriptures declares the former, but Calvin teaches the latter!
Calvin: "Still it is not yet very evident why and how faith bestows life upon us. "
So, it is plain and clear that Calvin believes that faith in Christ BESTOWS life upon the believers, even though he admits that is not yet very evident why and how that happens.
Pj Walters
Calvin did not believe the atonement of Christ was specifically for the elect. In other words, he did not believe in limited atonement. If I remember correctly it was some of his followers who adopted the view of limited atonement.
Not to start another thought on this thread, but it is as equally peculiar that Arminius originally believed in total depravity.
How far have their followers misconstrued their ideas!
Matthew Ong
I am more interested on how he viewed
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. <<< Especially this verse, because I heard many just hop over this verse.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom34.vii.ii.html
It may be thought that the Evangelist reverses the natural order by making regeneration to precede faith, whereas, *on the contrary*, *it is an effect of faith*, and therefore ought to be placed later. I reply, that both statements perfectly agree; because by faith we receive the incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23,) by which we are born again to a new and divine life.
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*on the contrary*, *it is an effect of faith* With reference to that: the Holy Ghost first impression was right then, "But will of God." was totally negated out of his lengthy explanation.
Sing F Lau
Just some obvious inconsistencies... like many lovers of Calvin are oblivious to all the inconsistencies in their beloved 'calvinism' named after their hero!
It is an anathema to point out that Calvin is plainly wrong in some of these basic gospel issues! Calvin is ALMOST infallible to his followers!
