A dear brother wrote to inquire about something he had heard in a message. And the Lord enlightened his mind and filled his heart with great joy when he understood salvation by grace alone a wee bit better.
Read on and
share his experience.
---------
From: e-sunny
Date:
August 12, 2007, 9:03:53 AM GMT+07:00
To:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Subject:
5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear
Pastor
Wifey
listened to a bible study conducted by GC and I believe the speaker is not Pastor C as the voice and presentation are not
his. As the points were laid forth, I concurred wholeheartedly but for point 6 in which I have to stop listening and refer to the Scriptures He
referred to 1 Cor 10: 1ff and made a point that all passed under the same
cloud, like Moses and through the sea... baptised into Moses.. ate the same
spiritual food. However, to most of them God is not pleased for the bodies
are scattered in the wilderness..the .speaker illustrated this point
to content:
a. Those who fall to the wilderness are allowed to sin as yet will be saved even if their bodies were scattered to the wilderness.
b.
Is then God an Author for sin?
c. 1 Cor 10: 8,9 spoke on sexual immorality and the action Phinehas has taken to kill that blatant of sexual immorality man and this man will be counted amongst the saints in heaven?
d. God forbids that the man under the cloud and passing through the sea shall be allowed to commit such blatant sin- where is the justice? where is the honour of God?
Please correct me if I am wrong because these actions go against the holiness of God... I know we have no part in our salvation but does the security of being elected gives a licence to commit even the deadliest of all sins. David and his sins, I accepted that he is in heaven because he repented. What about the 23k who fell to the wilderness, any repentance?
Thanks
e-sunny
----------------------------
From:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Date:
August 13, 2007, 2:08:52 AM GMT+07:00
To: e-sunny
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear
Brother e-sunny,
I
am glad to hear that your Wifey is listening to that bible study on unconditional
salvation. I listened to it a few times a while ago.
I
have read carefully your mail above several times in order to grasp what you
are actually saying. I do hope I have understood your concern... because I need
to scratch where the itch is. Please let me make some comments. I want to be
brief... so please ask further if you don't get what I am saying.
For
the first matter, please have your Bible opened at 1Cor. 10:
1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye
should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all
passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the
cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink:
for they ['all our fathers'] drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them
['all our fathers']: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them ['all our fathers']
God was not well pleased: for they ['many' out of 'all our fathers'] were
overthrown in the wilderness.
a.
Please note most carefully the phrase 'all our fathers' in verse 1. This phrase
defines the extent and the context of the 'all' that is spoken of in the
following verses.
-
Please remember that Apostle Paul is writing to the Gentile believers in
Corinth. All those who crossed the Red Sea during the Exodus were chiefly Jews.
To these Gentile believers in Corinth, who among those that had crossed the Red
Sea with Moses in the Exodus could be said to be their fathers? Surely NO
natural Jews can in any sense be said to be the fathers to these Gentile
believers in Corinth. Who then?
-
Apostle Paul is undoubtedly speaking specifically of the SPIRITUAL Jews among
all those that crossed the Red Sea during Exodus. ONLY the SPIRITUAL Jews among all of them that crossed the Red Sea
constituted 'all our fathers' of these spiritual Gentiles of Corinth.
-
So Apostle Paul is NOT referring to ALL those, EVERY ONE without distinction,
that crossed the Red sea under the leadership of Moses. Many were natural
Jews... were never among the elect of God.
-
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that
circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one
inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the
letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.
-
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not
all Israel, which are of Israel." Roman 9:6.
b.
With many of them ('them' referring to 'all our fathers' in verse 1) God were
not pleased. Many of them were among the Jews who sinned against God in the
wilderness - in their sins of unbelief, idolatry, and fornication. They were found
in the company of the natural Jews who sinned and were overthrown in the
wilderness. And they were overthrown in the wilderness, along with the
other natural Jews, i.e. they were
visited by God's judgment of natural death for their sins in the wilderness.
-
Instead of entering into the natural rest of the beautiful land of Canaan, they
['many' among 'all our fathers'] died prematurely in the wilderness. They (
many among 'all our fathers') suffered the fierce wrath of God against sins.
They were truly God's children, but that did not exempt them for one moment
from the fierce displeasure of God the Father against their sin. God overthrew
them - and cut them down in the wilderness. It is precisely they were not bastards,
but God's children, that they were severely scourged and chastised... many even
unto physical death.
-
God can't possibly be the author of sin. His holiness recoils against sins, His
commandments THUNDER against sins, and His hot displeasure are poured forth
against the sins of His very own children - to the extent of terminating their
lives prematurely.
-
God is certainly no author, nor condoner of sin, but the HATER and PUNISHER of
sin.
c.
Apostle Paul quoted the Exodus event as a stern warning for the SAINTS, God's
children in Corinth - DON'T follow the examples of YOUR FATHERS... you shall
suffer the same fate. You shall be overthrown by God just as many of them had
been. God DIDN'T spare your fathers in the OT, don't be deceived that he would
spare you now if you provoke Him to wrath with your sins.
-
Verse 6: "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not
lust after evil things, as they also lusted."
-
There are abundant examples of the hot displeasure and wrath of God kindled
against the sexual sins found among His own children. "Neither let us commit
fornication, as some of them committed and fell in one day three and twenty
thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were
destroyed of serpents." 1Cor 10:8.9.
-
Later in chapter 11, Apostle Paul reminded the Corinthian believers that
many of them were ALREADY dead because they abused the ordinance of the Lord's
Supper. They handle the holy things of God with unholy hands. "For he that
eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning
the Lord’s body. For this cause, many are weak and sickly among you, and many
sleep" [dead, overthrown by God's hot displeasure].
-
God terminated their earthly life. All those with whom God was displeased and
put to sleep, they shall be woken up to eternal glory when Christ returned to
be glorified in ALL His saints. So also all those out of 'all our fathers' whom
God have overthrown in the wilderness. Ah, eternal salvation is indeed by God's free
and unconditional grace.
-
Obedience DOES LENGTHENS life. "My son, forget not my law; but let thine
heart keep my commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall
they add to thee." Pr 3:2. Disobedience may provoke God to cut us off
before our time.
-
Eternal salvation is indeed by God's free and sovereign grace.
-
Temporal salvation is conditioned upon our obedience. Disobedience incurs the
hot displeasure of God... and many of God's children were overthrown...
destroyed in the temporal sense... deprived of enjoying temporal blessings.
d.
God deals with His children (saved by His free and sovereign grace) as free
moral agents and holds them responsible for their actions. Obedience brings
blessings, and disobedience brings curses. The Bible is full of these examples...
both from the OT and the NT. Immorality incurred God's severe wrath... the same
today if it is tolerated in the church.
-
God does not coerce or force His children. He works in them to will and to do.
They are free moral agents... they must choose to obey or disobey... He does not
condone sins... God reserves the sole prerogative to bless or punish
accordingly. God positively commands them to do good and threatens punishment
for sins. God promises to bless obedience and to punish sins. God
persuades and motivates his children to obey His commandments... all of which
make sins against God to be very grievous and heinous.
I
hope these few thoughts are helpful. Chew off the meat that you can and leave the
bones to the dogs.
I
had better stop before it gets too long.
Please feel free to ask further if I have missed any issue raised in your mail.
your
brother and servant in Christ,
sing
[notes: I have written somewhere else that "5 facets of salvation" is a better term than "5 phases of salvation."]
-----
From:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Date:
August 13, 2007, 11:26:00 AM GMT+07:00
To: e-sunny
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear e-Sunny,
Having
written more fully in the previous mail, I will now give brief comments on your
specific questions and 'statements' in your post below.
@ He
referred to 1 Cor 10: 1ff and made a point that all passed under the same
cloud, like Moses and through the sea... baptised into Moses..ate the same
spiritual food. However, to most of them, God is not pleased for the bodies
are scattered in the wilderness..the speaker illustrated this point
to content...
## The people spoken of in that whole passage is about 'all our fathers' to the Gentile believers in Corinth. They were spiritual Jews - those who were made partakers of Christ WITHOUT ANY CONDITION, they were blessed with eternal salvation by God's free grace WITHOUT ANY CONDITION.
-
Many of those spiritual Jews did ACTUALLY sin against God in various and
grievous ways... stated in verses 6-10.
"6 ¶ Now these things were our examples,
to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of
them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to
play. [They rose up to play, they didn't rise to worship... they rose up to
orgy and revelry. This is happening in so many churches... they PLAY... not
worship.]
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some
of them committed and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them
also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also
murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
These are facts and evidence, no matter how we dislike to read them, no matter how disagreeable and contrary to our pet notions. SOME [not all] OF THEM ('all our fathers') our spiritual fathers did actually commit those grievous sins. These are facts and evidence, and they DO crush the silly LIE and FABLE that all God's children persevere in faith and holy living. Someone once stated, "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
The
other facts and evidence are also clearly stated: ALL SUCH 'were overthrown in
the wilderness,' they 'were destroyed of serpents,' and 'were destroyed of the
destroyer.'
Based
on these facts and evidence, Apostle Paul warns all Christians in every
generation not to go down the same road.
@ a.
Those who fall to the wilderness are allowed to sin as yet will be saved
even their bodies were scattered to the wilderness.
##
God warned His children against the severe consequences of sinning. God deal
with His children as free moral agents, and not as robots. God does not coerce
His children from sin. Neither does He force them to obey. Obedience has to
be voluntary, out of a willing and submissive heart.
@ b.
Is then God an Author for sin?
##
God can't possibly be the author of sin. His holiness recoils against sins, His
commandments THUNDER against sins, and His hot displeasure is poured forth
against the sins of His very own children - to the extent of terminating their
lives prematurely. God is certainly no author, nor condoner of sin, but the
HATER and PUNISHER of sin. From the very beginning, God has declared plainly
that the wages of sin is death... physical death, spiritual death and eternal
death. God is the sole AUTHOR AGAINST sin.
You asked:
@ c.
1 Cor 10: 8,9 spoke on the sexual immorality and the action Phinehas has
taken to kill that blatant of sexual immorality man and this man will be
counted amongst the saints in heaven?
##
There is no indication one way or another whether that particular man was among
'all our fathers.' It goes against our natural idea and understanding that such
a man should be counted amongst the saints in heaven. I do sympathize with such
revulsion.
Nevertheless,
the plain fact is, that Apostle Paul did say that some among 'all our fathers' DID
commit fornication. The 'blatant' sexual immorality of that man, though very
grievous, is certainly no more grievous than the fornication committed by the
others among our fathers. This man certainly DID DIE the most horrible and
disgraceful and humiliating death for his 'blatant' sin. So let each child of
God be warned... sin has its temporal penalty in this life. By the grace and
mercy of God, the penalty of eternal death for sins has been fully, completely
and wholly settled by Christ Jesus.
@ d. God forbids that the man under the cloud and passing through the sea shall be allowed to commit such blatant sin- where is the justice? where is the honour for God?
## God gives eternal salvation to each of His elect at His own appointed and approved time. And He gives this eternal salvation by His free and sovereign grace... we need to grow to understand the full implication of the last statement.
God gives clear commands to His children... stating the blessings of obedience and the curses for sins. He gives all sorts of motivation and encouragement to obedience. He gives all sorts of threats and deterrents against sins.
A child of God who freely chooses to obey and do His Father's will shall be blessed. A child of God who chooses to disobey and sin shall also be cursed - suffer temporal judgments in this life.
Grievous sins among His children, our fathers, DID OCCUR - "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." God most certainly DID NOT condone it nor approve it, though He 'allowed' such to take place. If He hadn't 'allowed,' none would have taken place.
God
is just... as always, in all circumstances.
God
maintains His honour... as always, in all circumstances.
He
expects His children to live godly. He is just.
He punishes His children who flirt and mess around with sins. He is still just.
But He saves His own elect by His grace and mercy... and this ALSO justly and honourably through His Son Jesus Christ. There isn't the slightest injustice, or dishonour in His doing so, and in the way He does it.
@ Please correct me if I am wrong because these actions go against the holiness of God... I know we have no part in our salvation but does the security of being elected give a licence to commit even the deadliest of all sins. David and his sins, I accepted that he is in heaven because he repented. What about the 23k who fell to the wilderness, any repentance?
## Those acts of sins certainly do go against the holiness of God. Just because those acts of sin are obnoxious and abominable and heinous in the sight of God DOES NOT mean that God's children are NOT capable of committing them. It is precisely that God's children still have the inclination to commit such DEADLY sins, that Apostle Paul needed to deal with such matter and sternly warned the SAINTS in Corinth!!!
The security of being God's children DOES NOT give anyone license to commit even the 'LIVELIEST' of all sins - say, a white lie, or murmuring. It is ONE thing to admit the fact that God's children DO SIN and sometimes SIN in the most grievous manner... like committing the 'deadliest' of all sins. This is 1000 worlds of difference from saying that God's children, being eternally secure, have the license to sin the deadliest of all sins; it is a 1000 worlds of difference from condoning any sin. I hope you see the great gulf between the two.
David repented... because God gave him room for repentance. He and Bathsheba could have been pierced through with a javelin too. His sin was no less grievous in the sight of God. The 23k in Num 25 were overthrown with no more room for repentance. Many of 'our fathers' were among them that committed WHOREDOM (Num 25:1) - God destroyed them.
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." 2Ti 2:25
God's children do foolishly oppose the truth and do themselves great harm. To admit so IS NOT the same as to condone such grievous sin and folly. That is why Pastor Timothy is instructed to work patiently and meekly to restore such.
Repentance is a work of God's grace... even for God's children, should they despise God's word, a time would come when there would be no repentance left... God give them up to suffer destruction in this life.
I
hope these few thoughts help you to grasp the truth.
May our Lord bless you richly.
your
brother and servant in Christ,
sing
---------
From: e-sunny
Date:
August 13, 2007, 9:13:53 AM GMT+07:00
To:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear Pastor,
I knew that was the understanding as it seems logical or as "all" as in the exodus period having taken the bread and drank from the rock. The bitter pill to swallow is blatant sins are allowed to be punished only in this lifetime and two things conjure in my mind right now:
a. Wow, the heart of God is sooooo biggggg and the extent of His love so wide that I am thoroughly forgiven even when I grieve the Spirit.
b. Let's say... now knowing I would not be thrown into the pit of fire, I will go on displeasing God and the possible consequence is a shortened and trouble-filled life. So what! I can be a "pai kah chai" [Cantonese for a useless and careless son] and will be a prince or a friend in heaven. Can you imagine, the Spirit of life who can sear my conscience but cannot effect change because I will to disobey!
As
I always understood the word "fathers" was used loosely to mean those of
that generation and I understood not all were physically condemned to early
death. These are part of God's elect. I also cannot stomach the
blatant actions of the man killed by Phinehas. What! in heaven with him.
Emotions....as my sins though are not that drastic still sin and abominable
to God. Let me have time to think of this truth... I may have to reject
this notion that every one of the "fathers" is in heaven today...
May God
help me.
Best
regards
e-sunny
------
From:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Date:
August 13, 2007, 1:33:02 PM GMT+07:00
To: e-sunny
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear
Brother e-sunny,
Keep
talking... and things will become clearer. "Then they that feared the LORD
spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of
remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that
thought upon his name." Mal 3:16.
My comments are marked ## within your post below.
@ I knew that is the understanding as it seems logical or as "all" as in the exodus period having taken the bread and drank from the rock. The bitter pill to swallow is blatant sins are allowed to be punished only in this lifetime and two things conjure in my mind right now:
##
Verses 3 and 4 read thus:
"3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual
drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock
was Christ."
Apostle
Paul was not referring to natural manna from heaven or the natural water that
came out of the rock. Of these, absolutely ALL those who came out of Egypt DID
eat and drink.
Every sin has both eternal consequences and temporal consequences. Christ's work of redemption took away and dealt with the eternal consequences of all the sins of all His people once and for all. If this were not so, there would be no eternal salvation for any. If this were not so, even the 'lightest' sin would damn a man to eternal misery - that's a more sour pill to chew! Each sin, whether most 'blatant' or the least 'blatant,' deserves death in all its fullness.
Adam
eating the forbidden fruit might look like a light sin... yet because of that
sin, the whole human race was cursed and condemned.
[note added in 2023 Feb: "The bitter pill to swallow is blatant sins are allowed to be punished only in this lifetime...." No, not just this lifetime. Often the wicked among God's children are not even punished in this lifetime! I have learned since 2007 that there is an intermediate state of hell between physical death and the general resurrection; this is true for God's disobedient children as well. Christ's redemptive works saved His people from the eternal lake of fire, which is distinct from temporal hell. Christ DID SOLEMNLY warn His disciples against hell and to take drastic actions to avoid hell but He never warned His disciples about the lake of fire. Take a look here: https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2021/10/hell-and-lake-of-fire-they-are-distinct.html ]
@ a. Wow, the heart of God is sooooo biggggg and the extent of His love so wide that I am thoroughly forgiven even when I grieve the Spirit.
##
God forgives you when you were in an even WORSE state than grieving the Spirit.
-
We were enemies. "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God
by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his
life." Romans 5:10.
-
We were children of wrath. "Among whom also we all had our conversation in
times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and
of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."
Eph 2:3.
-
God loves us, and forgives us, and gives us eternal salvation when we were in a
far WORSE state.
-
When you grieve the Spirit of God, you shall suffer the chastisement and the
scourging of your FATHER in this life. He may even terminate your life... or
leave you to wallow in your sin and suffer the just bitterness.
@ b. Let say... now knowing I would not be thrown into the pit of fire, I will go on displeasing God and the possible consequence is shortened and trouble-filled life. So what! I can be "pai kah chai" [Cantonese for useless and careless son] and will be a prince or a friend in heaven. Can you imagine, the Spirit of life who can sear my conscience but cannot effect change because I will to disobey!
## Apostle Paul dealt with that classic problem before - Romans 6. True teaching on eternal salvation by God's free grace will ALWAYS draw forth such objection. When there is no such objection, the truth of eternal salvation by God's free grace has not been faithfully taught.
6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we
continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to
sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were
baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism
into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the
Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Such thinking or mentality betrays the spiritual state of the person. For a child of God to fall into grievous sin, and for a person to consciously choose a life of sin speaks of two very different spiritual states.
The fire of hell may restrain natural men in their life of sins. It is the love of God that both restrains His children from sins, and promotes obedience. It is ONLY a swine who says, "I will go back to wallow in the muck because the master will always wash me clean again."
@ As
I always understood the word "fathers" was used loosely to mean those of
that generation and I understood not all were physically condemned to early
death. These will be part of God's elect. I also cannot stomach the
blatant actions of the man killed by Phinehas. What! in heaven with him.
Emotions....as my sins though is not that drastic is still a sin and abominable
to God. Let me have time to think of this truth.. I may have to reject
this notion that every one of the "fathers" are in heaven today...
May God
help me.
##
Just remember what is actually said of 'all our fathers' - "3 And did all
eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for
they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was
Christ."
If that were not so, they COULD NEVER be said to be the spiritual fathers of the Gentile believers in Corinth.
At
least you only cannot stomach SUCH BIG HEINOUS, ABOMINABLE blatant sin. The
Pharisees cannot stomach much 'smaller' and 'minor' and far less 'blatant' sin
- like eating with sinners. You have a much larger stomach than theirs.
I thank God He has a VERY BIG STOMACH... O bless the Lord for the bigness of His BIG stomach... big enough to stomach the most horrible sins of His children. God could stomach the incest of Lot... to observe this is not the same as condoning incest... it is just to note that God has a very HUGE stomach. God could stomach the idolatry of the wisest man Solomon... to observe this is not the same as condoning idolatry... it is just to note that God has a very GIGANTIC stomach. Were the adultery and murder committed by David any less heinous or blatant? Our God stomached them all too... O the grace and mercy of God.
If this glorious truth motivates some to give God more of their muck... they prove themselves to be SWINE.
May the Lord bless you and help you to see His BIG STOMACH - is my humble prayer.
your
brother and servant in Christ,
sing
-----------
From: e-sunny
Date:
August 13, 2007, 2:51:29 PM GMT+07:00
To:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear Pastor,
As I grasped the writings, IT IS A MENTAL & SPIRITUAL REVOLUTION. My mind wants punishment for sins as seen by my eyes. My whole being wants to see the wickedness in the unconverted and the regenerated punished. But His way is higher than mine. Very much I am not against the whole concept of His unconditional election, to see the natural law of man not used against the rebellion. The rebellion though punished cannot be compared the with the heaven that is to come. My other fear is to see certain people who are outright Godless till the end and yet to be found in heaven.
Could
these people secretly be partaking in the goodness of spiritual food?
Dumb fears just like questions asked by those in kindies.
Regards
e-sunny
--------
From:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Date:
August 13, 2007, 5:56:20 PM GMT+07:00
To: e-sunny
Subject:
Re: 5 phases of unconditional salvation
Dear e-sunny,
There
are so many sins that are not visible to our eyes... but God sees them all.
There
are punishments that are visible, and there are also punishments that are not
visible. These are far worse than those that are visible. I believe a defiled
conscience that tortures a disobedient and unrepentant child of God day and
night is much worse than being sent to the gallows.
Godly
souls are always grieved by the sins found in themselves, as well as those
among God's people.
"Rivers
of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law" Ps 119:136.
"My
zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words" Ps
119:139.
"I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word" Ps 119:158.
The psalmist is not speaking of the open pagan unbelievers... but of them who were given, and knew the law of God, and were commanded to keep God's law and His word.
If one ever gets into heaven, he gets there SOLELY and WHOLLY on the finished work of Christ ALONE, and nothing else... not whether how little he has sinned or whether he has been punished sufficiently for all his sins.
By strict justice, one sin alone is enough to damn a man to eternal misery and torment. "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" Jas 2:10.
Those who are outrightly godless till the end have no ground whatsoever to hope for eternal glory in heaven... they would go through life with misery and torment within... though they may appear respectable and prosperous to our human eyes. Such may be like the prodigal son... living among swine and sharing their food. [Lot did appear outrightly godless, wallowing in the degraded society of Sodom... offering his daughters to meet the Sodomites' lusts... had to be dragged out of Sodom... committed incest... yet it is revealed to us that he is righteous. How very unreliable is our feeble judgment!]
Such must be warned against. Their grievous sin must be pointed out. Such must be given no place in the visible church, and be treated as a heathen. Even if such do end up in heaven, it should really humble us... it only magnifies the infinite mercy and grace of God.
God has a much bigger stomach than us! Let us celebrate and rejoice in the greatness of God's grace and mercy in dealing with sinners.
In one of the parables Jesus said, "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?" Good reminder. Salvation is the Lord's own; heaven and eternal glory are the Lord's own too. For Him to give it to the MOST undeserving ONLY magnifies His grace and mercy and goodness.
May our Lord give us grace to "live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" Titus 2:12-13.
May our Lord bless you richly.
your
brother and servant in Christ,
sing
---------
From: e-sunny
Date:
August 14, 2007, 3:06:46 AM GMT+07:00
To:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Subject:
Unless God opens the eyes...
Dear
Pastor,
Unless God opens the eyes in the spiritual sense, the centuries of blindness to the divine truth perpetuated will ever be continuing.
Unless and until our souls want to surrender to the divine truth espoused in the bible without exception, we will be lost in the midst of truths and half-truths. No wonder the opposition to these divine truths is like the Pharaohs of the world, fighting against the truths of God.
We know the discussions we have had is the thorough truth of God hidden from us these decades. What had been dispensed were half-truths but nevertheless, God has wrought to pass our understanding of Him as the God of creation. Yes, my soul like the psalmist would like to shout with joy.
If these truths have been dispensed to us in doses like doses of milk to the infants at the beginning of our journey from regeneration till now, we would not have colic, constipation and diarrhoea. However, we praise our God for these truths found in the bible. Man has "bastardised" and dispensed doses of toxin poisoning our mind, thoughts and understanding and therefore resulting in poorness in Christian character and never understanding the depth of God's love. Brother! we thank God for the uncovering of the century and time eternal old truths.
Alas, our duty is to put across these truths on the proper pedestal, high above all for all to see and believe. Maybe the centuries of lies may not be washed away overnight or even in our lifetime but surely if God so will & purpose the real work of reformation will begin in Malaysia.
This day forth, wifey & I have begun to see God and Christ in the true & proper light. You may want to share our thoughts with the brethren.
Bless
Him for His eternal love,
e-sunny
======
From:
sing <singpenang@gmail.com>
Date:
Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 9:40 AM
Subject:
5 phases of unconditional salvation - Eng Sun
To: Yonathin
Dear Brother,
Below
are some exchanges with e-sunny over the last few days.
His latest post, right at the bottom, brings tears of joy to my eyes.
May
our Lord grant many more to see the blessed truth.
If
you are busy, just read the short post right at the bottom.
Rejoice
with them that do rejoice.
I
will let you know the schedule for Dec in a few days' time.
sing
----
From: Yonathin
Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2007, 9:58 PM
Subject: 5 phases of unconditional salvation - Eng Sun
To: sing
Dear brother Sing,
I
am rejoicing with you, and I enjoyed the correspondence.
e-sunny and wifey need to remember Lot ... Samson ... Solomon ... David ... Peter ... and
the Corinthians. All these are elect saints, and they shall be in heaven,
though they sinned terribly in this life. They are Bible examples for us to
grasp the truth of God's saving grace, and so is the generation in the
wilderness. There is nothing inconsistent with God eternally, legally, and
vitally saving a man and yet allowing him to sin practically and miss God's
best for his life in this world.
As you have written, both e-sunny and wifey have sinned far more than enough to send their souls to the lake of fire for eternity. The force of the whole law comes against the violation of any one point of the law (James 2:10).
The
Lord bless you, brother.
Yonathin
