Things New and Old

Ancient truths revealed in the Scriptures are often forgotten, disbelieved or distorted, and therefore lost in the passage of time. Such ancient truths when rediscovered and relearned are 'new' additions to the treasury of ancient truths.

Christ showed many new things to the disciples, things prophesied by the prophets of old but hijacked and perverted by the elders and their traditions, but which Christ reclaimed and returned to His people.

Many things taught by the Apostles of Christ have been perverted or substituted over the centuries. Such fundamental doctrines like salvation by grace and justification have been hijacked and perverted and repudiated by sincere Christians. These doctrines need to be reclaimed and restored to God's people.

There are things both new and old here. "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things" 2Ti 2:7.

Friday, September 18, 2020

What way? Make up your mind, please!

 
Which way exactly?

1Kings 18:21
And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Initially posted here:
September 18, 2013
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/10200641997827853

Read this statement of faith below carefully, and give your thoughts.
Can you rightly divide the several things expressed? Thanks.

" We believe that the work of regeneration, conversion, sanctification, and faith, is not an act of man's free will and power, but of the mighty, efficacious, and irresistible grace of God, through the preaching of the Gospel and the inner work of the Almighty Holy Spirit of God." 
=======

Bill Taylor
The sign says it all. Error is almost always found wearing a thin cloak of truth. In this case, the cloak is too thin to cover! That phrase, "through the preaching of the Gospel" takes the truth expressed in the rest of the statement and completely turns it around to be a non-truth.

Linda Lancaster
Faith has nothing to do with man. It is ALL of God. Faith is a gift. Given by God to us at our point of salvation, which also has nothing to do with man. WHY? Because then it would be credited to man instead of GOD. We have nothing to do with the wonderful gifts of salvation, justification, sanctification. It is ALL BY GOD'S ENABLING POWER IN OUR LIVES CALL GRACE.

Jerry Chapin
I agree, Bro. Bill...the cart is before the horse in this case. If he would have said. "the inner work of the Almighty Holy Spirit of God" first, it would have been correct. The work of God comes first [regeneration], then, the works of man [conversation] through the preaching of the gospel...

Sing F Lau
How if we rightly divide the confused mess???

"We believe that the work of regeneration... is not an act of man's free will and power, but of the mighty, efficacious, and irresistible grace of God alone."

"We believe that the work of conversion, sanctification, and faith is through the preaching of the gospel and the inner work of the Almighty Holy Spirit of God." 

Sing F Lau
The big problem with the reformed folks, who love to call themselves Calvinists, and even the sovereign grace people is basically very simple: they are either incapable of or wilfully refuse to distinguish the eternal salvation by the monergistic activities of the triune God, and the temporal salvation through the synergistic activities of God's children in obedience to their Father's will.

The article of faith above, from a sovereign grace church is a classic example of the confusion.

Chase Harrison
Sounds like they have simply mistaken the gospel call for the effectual call. Replace the phrase "through the preaching of the gospel" with the phrase "through the voice of the Son of God", and then I don't have much of a problem with it anymore.

Joe Chin
so they are saying without preaching, irresistible grace is not so irresistible after all...

Sing F Lau
It is not so much that they mistake the gospel call for the effectual call. They condition the effectual call upon the gospel call!

Chase Harrison
Ah, yes, good point!
They believe the effectual call is always through the gospel call!

Sing F Lau
Just as the sign indicates, the big clockwise turn (of the mighty, efficacious, and irresistible grace of God) is conditioned/dependent upon the little anti-clockwise turn (through the preaching of the gospel AND the inner work of the Almighty Holy Spirit of God.)

Mark Thomas
They utterly fail to understand the simple. Grace and works do not mix. When forced to mix they cannot retain their original meanings and power and are no longer what they once were. Thank God the dilution (delusion) is only in the minds of men and cannot affect the grace of our Sovereign God.

Linda Lancaster
God will use whatever means He likes. He is sovereign. What about those Muslims/anyone for that matter, who have never heard the Word of God through preaching and had divine meetings with our God in their closet? We are trying to box the Sovereign Lord, who does as He pleases. Not as we want Him to.

Sing F Lau
God will use whatsoever means He wills. He is indeed sovereign, and He has sovereignly determined NOT to use any means in the work of regenerating His elect from their state of sin and death. Tooooo many preachers are very unhappy about that. God has sovereignly determined that it is foolish to involve fickle and feeble men in the work of regenerating His elect found in every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Foolish and stupid preachers think God needs them and their ministry as means to father His children. I have never seen or heard of a mid-wife who insisted in helping the man father the child she helps to deliver! <LOL> The midwives know their place, deluded preachers don't!

Linda Lancaster
However, God also chooses to use us, infallible people, to further His Kingdom down here on earth. He chooses the 'foolish things of this world' the scripture says.

Linda Lancaster
I agree that He is determined NOT to use man in regeneration. Because then it would be of 'works' again.

Sing F Lau
Oh yes, we need midwives to deliver the lives that has been fathered, the well being of the new lives is dependent upon many means - parenting, etc, etc.

Dellis Layne Worsham Sr.
Some people like to make the preacher look soooo valuable. In one of the churches I attended years ago, every member was judged on how many souls they had won to Christ. I often wondered if God was ever counted as a member.

Sing F Lau
James, YES, I'm saying that God saves His elect apart from the preaching of the gospel.

The preaching of the gospel INFORMS the ALREADY SAVED what the Triune God has done to save them, and calling such to believe the truth of their salvation.

http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2012/09/is-it-alone-or-is-it-alone-some_8280.html

 [James has deleted his several comments!]

Sing F Lau
James, read and consider this short article:   http://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2013/08/is-it-freely-by-his-grace-alone-or-is.html

Robert Cook Sr.
Saves his elect?? The (save) under consideration must be defined before a teaching can be put upon it. God does save the elect by the preaching of the Gospel, but this salvation can not be eternal since Christ hath, HATH, hath, reconciled us unto God Having been made sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness in him. So then, this (save) must be something other than eternal, so what could that be? Let's reconnoiter and define. The Gospel is the good NEWS that Christ HATH finished the work, therefore there is now NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, Good news does not pay for our sins in the court room of God, at His holy throne, but believing the Gospel does remove the guilt of sin from our consciences and we then have been reconciled to God in our understanding as to where we stand by grace alone. We can only believe if we have ALREADY been born again. natural man receives not the things of the spirit of God.

Robert Cook Sr.
All salvation is of God but all of God's redeemed will not have knowledge of all that God accomplished in Christ here in time. Most men declare a false Gospel and a perversion of the knowledge of God I do not think God sent them to SAVE His elect with a lie! The Gospel pays for no ones sin but it does bring the knowledge of eternal life to all those who believe. Calvinism is a lie just as Arminianism is.

Robert Cook Sr.
Let the bible speak thru the Holy Spirit not John Calvin's Commentary! 

Josiah Lau
Just to interject briefly, I agree with Mr Robert Cook's answer that Mr James Farley's words 'saves the elect' should be first defined before an answer is attempted. Remember our own past confusion about the different phases of salvation. 🙂 (addressed to my dad) 

Sing F Lau
You are right, Josiah.

However, it is certain that Mr Farley's question meant eternal salvation is bestowed through the preaching of the gospel.
(I'm leaving for KL soon... so won't be around till Sat even. I pray that you will have a good meeting tomorrow morning.) 

Josiah Lau
Okay. I'm sure you're more familiar with him and understand his background/current position far better than I do. If you're certain about that then alright. 

Robert Cook Sr.
I think for the edification of all and a reminder as to rightly dividing it is good to always reiterate for those who have been lied to the differences between all words in context not just saved

Robert Cook Sr.
Many ignorant and timid folks read but are afraid to post but can glean from careful explanations. It took me years of study and weeping decades ago to reject the heresy of Arminian theology. 

Robert Cook Sr.
Sing sometimes a man can only see his error when he writes it out or speaks it audibly, I know a preacher who was born and raised in the Arminian teaching and was ordained as such, was preaching a sermon on the same topic 2 Corinthians 5: 18-21 and as he spoke he realized his error, so sometimes patiently drawing out what a man says he believes will help him see the error, after all my goal in my feeble way is to edify not destroy a brother.


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