Read the exchanges here:
Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of
the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom
they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not
heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be
sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the
gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
This is a popular passage that is hardly understood!
So let's inquire a bit!
Who are those that can CALL upon the name of
the Lord?
Who are those that can BELIEVE in the Lord?
And who are those that can HEAR the gospel
preached?
Just who have these SPIRITUAL ABILITIES
mentioned?
Who are under consideration?
And what is the salvation that comes from
calling upon the name of the Lord?
How does calling upon the name of the Lord
save a man?
And again, just who is able to call upon the
name of the Lord?
Please tell us! Thanks.
Thomas
Only the elect are able to call on the name of the Lord.
Only the elect are able to call on the name of the Lord.
Sing
What kind of elect are able to call upon the
name of the Lord?
Thomas
I am not sure what you mean.
Dan
Would they that do not seek and do not
understand God call upon His name (Rom. 3:10-11)?
Sing
Dan, who are those that do seek and do
understand?
Thomas, there are elect that are dead in
trespasses and sins, and there are elect that are effectually called unto grace
and salvation. So what kind of elect that are able to call upon the name of the
Lord?
Dan
An elect in his unregeneracy is just as good
as non-elects yet dead in trespasses and sins.
Sing
Yes, '... even as others.'
Thomas
I would say then only an elect person who has
been regenerated can call upon the name of the Lord.
Sing
Are they regenerated before they hear the
gospel, or are they regenerated through the hearing of the gospel?
Thomas
Not sure.
Sing
Do you want to be sure on the authority of
Scriptures ALONE?
Thomas
I do.
Sing
Just consider the passage above... the tight
logic of Paul's argument. What is the necessary implication?
Thomas
To be saved they must call upon Him, to do
that they must believe, in order to do that they must first hear the Word, and
for that to happen it must be preached. Correct?
Sing
Who are those that can CALL upon the name of
the Lord?
Who are those that can BELIEVE in the Lord?
And who are those that can HEAR the gospel
preached?
Answer: those elect whom God has effectually
called out of their native state of sin and death - i.e. those whom God Himself
HAS SAVED with eternal salvation.
Only those SAVED by God are able to hear the
gospel, believe in the Lord and call upon His name. These need to hear the
gospel, that they may have the knowledge of their eternal salvation by God's
free grace in Christ Jesus, believe in Him.
The gospel must be brought to them THAT they
may hear the good news of their salvation by God's free grace in Christ Jesus,
and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ their Saviour, and call upon the name of
the Lord.
This hearing, believing, and calling upon the
name of the Lord SAVES them from lies, superstition, falsehood... and with
respect to the Jews under consideration (immediate context) to save them from
the prophesied destruction in 70AD... to flee from the destruction to come...
to believe the Lord's warning, and be saved from the certain destruction.
Adam
Sing, one question if I may. You refer to the
destruction in 70AD, do you see this as one and the same with "the wrath
to come?" (1 Thess 1:10) Is there no more wrath to come?
Sing
Adam, the wrath that came upon that wicked,
perverse, rebellious generation of Israel is distinct and separate from the
wrath coming upon the end of the gospel age.
The wrath in 70AD brought the end of the
Jewish age!
The wrath to come will bring the end of the
gospel age!
There is a very helpful article on 70AD here!
Sing
To be saved they must call upon Him, to do
that they must believe, in order to do that they must first hear the Word, and
for that to happen it must be preached. Correct?
+++++++++++++++
They must call upon the Lord to be saved:
But who is able to call upon the Lord?
- those still dead in trespasses and sins?
- or those whom God HAS already effectually
called out of their native state of sin and death to that of grace and
salvation?
If the latter, i.e. those who God HAS SAVED,
then just what is the salvation that is conditioned on calling upon the name of
the Lord?
What is that salvation that require the means
of the gospel ministry - of hearing and believing the gospel, and calling upon
the name of the Lord?
Consider these questions, and may our Lord
give you understanding!
There is a salvation [eternal] that is
entirely by God's free and sovereign grace by the finished work of Jesus Christ
and applied by the Holy Spirit.
There is a distinct and separate salvation
[temporal] that the children of God (i.e. elect that are already SAVED by God,
effectually called out of their native state of sin and condemnation unto grace
and salvation) must work out for themselves, through their obedience to their
Father's for them. To hear, believe and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ is the
Father's will for His children.
If you can make this distinction, you are
light years ahead of the multitudes of reformed theologians.
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology!
Adam
Thanks for the article. Where I am getting bogged down in the flow of the discussion above is that it seems you are saying that there are those saved from the wrath to come, but may not have correct teaching and thus not be saved from problems on earth. Am I right on that? In other words, belief on Christ does not save from wrath to come?
Thanks for the article. Where I am getting bogged down in the flow of the discussion above is that it seems you are saying that there are those saved from the wrath to come, but may not have correct teaching and thus not be saved from problems on earth. Am I right on that? In other words, belief on Christ does not save from wrath to come?
Sing
Belief in Christ is evidence that one has
been saved by God, and possesses eternal life... SAVED from the wrath to come on
the great judgment day!
Belief in Christ DOES SAVE a child of God
from lies and falsehood and errors that rob him of his comfort, peace, hope,
assurance, etc.
For example, a child of God who believes the
LIE that he is justified by God because of his believing in Christ will never
have much comfort and assurance and security. [Justification before God by man's
act of believing in Christ is a pure lie from hell!]. When happens to man's
justification when he becomes unbelieving if his justification before God is by
his act of believing in Christ?
Justification before God by the righteousness
of Jesus Christ ALONE provides ABSOLUTE certainty and IMMOVABLE assurance
because it is a justification based upon something settled and immutable.
Do I make sense?
Adam
Yes, it makes sense. Let me see if I can
apply what you are saying to a different verse. "To open their eyes, and
to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that
they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are
sanctified by faith that is in me." - Acts 26:18 In this verse, "
that they may receive forgiveness of sins," is not a legal sense but only
a personal one, which thus receiving by faith gives them assurance, peace,
etc... the man is already eternally saved, but may never know the peace of it
unless he believes. Is this your thoughts in essence?
Sing
Yes, you are quite close. In our eternal salvation, we are completely passive, i.e. we do and contribute NOTHING, absolutely nothing. In fact, we were in enmity and rebellion. Sovereign and free grace triumphed and abounded.
Yes, you are quite close. In our eternal salvation, we are completely passive, i.e. we do and contribute NOTHING, absolutely nothing. In fact, we were in enmity and rebellion. Sovereign and free grace triumphed and abounded.
To EXPERIENCE personally of what God has
already done is through faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. And only what God HAS
APPLIED to an elect personally can be experienced. Abraham in Gen 15 is the
classic case Apostle Paul marshalled to demonstrate this truth.
Scriptures declare, "Whosoever believeth
that Jesus is the Christ is born of God."
Therefore one who believes in Jesus Christ
can assure himself that he is a child of God and a recipient of the full
salvation purposed by God, accomplished by Jesus Christ, and applied to him by
the Holy Spirit. His believing justifies him only in the sense that it
certifies and vindicates his sonship, freely by the grace of God.
Believing in Jesus Christ is the means
appointed for God's children (regenerated by the free and sovereign power of
God without men's help in any way) to personally experience what is ALREADY
true by God's free grace.
Similarly, with the declaration, "the
just shall live by faith." Since the just shall live by faith, therefore
one who believes and rest in Jesus Christ is just, i.e. God has justified
him freely based on the righteousness of Christ alone. Faith evidences the
justified state by the free grace of God.
Sing
So many sincere people read Romans 10:13-15,
and imagine the fiction that the preaching of the gospel is the necessary means
for the Holy Spirit to regenerate those still dead in trespasses and sin.
Instead of saying 'faith (the act of
believing) comes by hearing', they imagine that 'eternal life comes by
hearing.' They read the passage and come up with the fable of gospel
regeneration, their preaching of the gospel is the indispensable means for the
Holy Spirit to execute his work of regeneration. So, without their preaching,
the Holy Spirit is impotent to regenerate!
However, the passage teaches plainly that the
gospel ministry is the necessary means to the CONVERSION of God's children to
the truth of their salvation by God's free grace in Christ Jesus.
To quicken the dead in trespasses and sins,
and to convert God's children (already quickened by God's free and sovereign
grace) to the truth of their salvation by God's free grace are a world apart.
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Which is why there is this injunction in the
Scriptures,
2Ti 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved
unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word
of truth."
One who mistakes the function of the gospel
as the instrument for the conversion of God's children to the truth of their
salvation by free grace as the instrument for the regeneration of the dead in
trespasses and sins ought to be ashamed!
