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| "It is true that whatever will be will be, is it not?" |
I came across the above post on the Facebook Page called Pristine Grace. I was intrigued and started inquiring. There were a few exchanges but not helpful; there is no desire to deal with or keep to the subject.
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We at Pristine Grace love to focus on God's eternal decree. It gives us great comfort to know that God has predestined every single event of our lives. It helps us to know that there is nothing that happens in this world that is not His pleasure. Even many of the articles on this website focus on this wonderful truth. However, to many outsiders, those that are not familiar with God's decree, and those who don't dwell on it like we do, it is thought that we emphasize the decree of God to the exclusion of the cross of Christ and the events of time. Let me state emphatically right here and right now that not only is this an impossibility, but it is wrong.
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We at Pristine Grace love to focus on God's eternal decree. It gives us great comfort to know that God has predestined every single event of our lives. It helps us to know that there is nothing that happens in this world that is not His pleasure. Even many of the articles on this website focus on this wonderful truth. However, to many outsiders, those that are not familiar with God's decree, and those who don't dwell on it like we do, it is thought that we emphasize the decree of God to the exclusion of the cross of Christ and the events of time. Let me state emphatically right here and right now that not only is this an impossibility, but it is wrong.
We cannot separate the events in our lives and throughout the world from God's decree. It is true that whatever will be will be, is it not? Events cannot happen without a decree and a decree without its correspondent events not being actualized is not a decree. Take for example God's eternal decree for God to justify His people. We love this decree of God so much, but only because of the actual events which transpired because of it! God's decree to justify His people without the cross of Christ is not justification. God's justification of His people without the decree is not justification either. The decree to justify and the actual justification of them cannot be separated in any degree. That is why it is safe for us to focus on God's decree and state that the decree to justify IS the justification of His people because God's decree does not return void. It is efficacious. When God speaks - His word is accomplished!!!!
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Intrigued, I wrote to inquire.
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Intrigued, I wrote to inquire.
Sing F Lau
"It gives us great comfort to know that God has predestined every single event of our lives."
Where in the Bible does it say God has predestinated every single event of our lives? Honest question.
Events have no destiny; why do they need to be predestinated? I read in the Scriptures that God predestinated people; people have a destiny. He predestinated those whom He foreknew, i.e. on whom He has set His eternal love, to eternal glory. God predetermined the eternal destiny of such PEOPLE.
In your understanding, has this comment been predestinated by God? Honest question too.
Pristine Grace
Sing, if you would like to discuss, please come to our forum, sign up for an account and post your question there... http://www.pristinegrace.org/forum
Sing, if you would like to discuss, please come to our forum, sign up for an account and post your question there... http://www.pristinegrace.org/forum
Here is some food for thought...
https://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=363
https://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=394
Brandan
Sing F Lau, yes this comment has been predestined. All thoughts - every minute detail is perfectly planned.
Sing F Lau, yes this comment has been predestined. All thoughts - every minute detail is perfectly planned.
Sing
No, I'm not interested in the forum. Thanks. You make a public statement here on the Facebook page, just help answer my query if you can.
No, I'm not interested in the forum. Thanks. You make a public statement here on the Facebook page, just help answer my query if you can.
People have the strange idea that God must predetermine all events in order to be sovereign and be in full control. That's a fable contrary to the Bible.
God does not need to decree all things in order to know all things or to be in control of all things!!!
God did decree all those events related to the eternal salvation of His elect... so that they will most assuredly take place and His elect saved to the uttermost!
It is the sick imagination of the weak man to think that the infinite and eternal and unchangingly sovereign God needs to decree ALL things in order to know and be in control of all things. That idea actually diminishes God's sovereignty!!!
The truly sovereign God remains in full control of all His creation WITHOUT predetermining ALL THINGS, with His creatures having all the true liberty and freedom of actions... God is still firmly in control. That's truly sovereign! If God did decree (predestined) all things, then God would be chargeable for all the evil and wicked acts of men; He decreed them, no matter how you hedge it.
The truly sovereign God does not fear to grant His creatures FULL LIBERTY of action... that way man can be truly held responsible for all his actions; he acted freely, and not because God has predetermined it to happen. That's the foundation of God's moral government over His creation. If God has predetermined it, then man can legitimately blame God. But as it is, man is without excuse, he acted freely in all his sinful actions.
Don't diminish God's sovereignty. Only a small god needs to predetermine all events so that he is in control of all events.
Brandan
Sing F Lau I do not believe you are here to learn but to brag about what you think you know.
Your mind is made up and I’m not going to try to convince you of truth. I pointed to a couple articles - and you are free not to read if you desire. Have a nice day.
Sing
Brandan, in your understanding, it has been predestinated that "you do not believe I am here to learn but to brag about what I think I know." So why are you going against what God has predestinated? I'm really puzzled.
I'm learning by letting people point out the error of my present understanding; otherwise, how can I unlearn the errors and learn the truth. But in your understanding, it has been predestinated that both our minds are equally made up. Just trying to see things from your perspective.
** End of exchange, the last I checked
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Let me make a few comments:
1. "God has predestined every single event of our lives."
God predestined people, not events, much less every single event of our lives.
First serious fallacy: just because you love to focus on God's eternal decrees does not mean God has predestined every single event of our lives. That's just plain fallacy.
Ephesians 1
It is just an absolute fable of the Absoluters that God has predestined every single event of our lives.
Imagine for a moment: God had predestined that Adam eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; then warned Adam in the most solemn manner, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17
I once had an interesting exchange with a student, Rue Xiao Jian (from China) who was doing his PhD in Robotics at the local university; I bumped into him while doing my regular rounds reaching out to the students staying in the student hostels. After some discussion on God, creation, and sin, he commented about the fall, "Your god isn't very smart; I would have programmed Adam such that he was incapable of making the choice to sin." This communist atheist had a similar idea, "God ought to have predestined every single event of our lives." The infinitely wise God did not make preprogrammed robots, but moral creatures in His own image, with full free-agency.
God is infinitely and eternally and unchangeably sovereign. He remains the absolute Ruler and Governor of His creation without predestinating every single event of His creatures. A weak monarch would try to do that in order to be in control. Why does He need to programme moral creatures made in His image? He bestowed upon man complete freedom of action (free-agency) and justly and righteously hold them accountable to their actions. Their actions were not predetermined by God, but freely by their moral choice and free-agency.
Off all the events in this world, some are actively caused by God's determinate counsel and outworking of His eternal decrees to accomplish the eternal redemption of His people; many are actively executed by Him, whether blessings or judgments (i.e. not decreed), others are permitted and allowed (not decreed).
Most assuredly, there are things that are by the predeterminate counsel of God, especially all those things that are related to the eternal redemption and salvation of His elect. These things are predetermined and ordained because it is absolutely necessary for them to happen, without which God's purpose of redeeming for Himself a people would fail.
This brass-faced fatalism - whatever will be will be - flies in the face of so much of the Scriptures where the LORD God set choices of blessings and curses before His people. Maybe, to the Absoluters, the LORD God was just fooling the people since everything has been fated.
4. Events cannot happen without a decree and a decree without its correspondent events not being actualized is not a decree.
Thus, the author will claim that the event of his writing the two paragraphs above happened because God had decreed it; he would also insist that it has also been decreed by God that I am writing these thoughts.
All of God's decrees are immutably executed and their ends perfectly accomplished; they all executed and accomplished and applied solely by the sovereign activities of God alone, without any human activities.
Not so with the man's pompous and magisterial legislations.
5. Take for example God's eternal decree for God to justify His people.
Much of what he said on justification is true. Justification is indeed a good example of God's eternal decree; it deals with the eternal salvation of God's people; it has to be decreed, accomplished, and executed, all by the free and sovereign activities of Triune God, to ensure God's immutable purpose for as many as have been appointed unto eternal glory.
HOWEVER, it is plain fallacy and irrationality to use this example of justification to prove and validate his initial assertion that "God has predestined every single event of our lives."
6. Brandan
Sing F Lau, yes this comment has been predestined. All thoughts - every minute detail is perfectly planned.
Let's see where this idea leads us.
** End of exchange, the last I checked
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Let me make a few comments:
1. "God has predestined every single event of our lives."
God predestined people, not events, much less every single event of our lives.
First serious fallacy: just because you love to focus on God's eternal decrees does not mean God has predestined every single event of our lives. That's just plain fallacy.
Ephesians 1
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
It is just an absolute fable of the Absoluters that God has predestined every single event of our lives.
Imagine for a moment: God had predestined that Adam eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; then warned Adam in the most solemn manner, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17
I once had an interesting exchange with a student, Rue Xiao Jian (from China) who was doing his PhD in Robotics at the local university; I bumped into him while doing my regular rounds reaching out to the students staying in the student hostels. After some discussion on God, creation, and sin, he commented about the fall, "Your god isn't very smart; I would have programmed Adam such that he was incapable of making the choice to sin." This communist atheist had a similar idea, "God ought to have predestined every single event of our lives." The infinitely wise God did not make preprogrammed robots, but moral creatures in His own image, with full free-agency.
God is infinitely and eternally and unchangeably sovereign. He remains the absolute Ruler and Governor of His creation without predestinating every single event of His creatures. A weak monarch would try to do that in order to be in control. Why does He need to programme moral creatures made in His image? He bestowed upon man complete freedom of action (free-agency) and justly and righteously hold them accountable to their actions. Their actions were not predetermined by God, but freely by their moral choice and free-agency.
Off all the events in this world, some are actively caused by God's determinate counsel and outworking of His eternal decrees to accomplish the eternal redemption of His people; many are actively executed by Him, whether blessings or judgments (i.e. not decreed), others are permitted and allowed (not decreed).
Most assuredly, there are things that are by the predeterminate counsel of God, especially all those things that are related to the eternal redemption and salvation of His elect. These things are predetermined and ordained because it is absolutely necessary for them to happen, without which God's purpose of redeeming for Himself a people would fail.
Rom 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What are those all things? All those things that God has decreed to do; all things involved from the foreknowing all the way to glorifying of all those called according to His purpose. All these things work together for good to every one called according to God's purposes, without exception.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What are those all things? All those things that God has decreed to do; all things involved from the foreknowing all the way to glorifying of all those called according to His purpose. All these things work together for good to every one called according to God's purposes, without exception.
Of Jesus Christ's death, it was said,
"Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."
3. It is true that whatever will be will be, is it not?
This is the classic fatalistic statement, yes, it is all FATED! My Muslim friends feel very at home with that. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/opinion/islams-tragic-fatalism.htmlThis brass-faced fatalism - whatever will be will be - flies in the face of so much of the Scriptures where the LORD God set choices of blessings and curses before His people. Maybe, to the Absoluters, the LORD God was just fooling the people since everything has been fated.
4. Events cannot happen without a decree and a decree without its correspondent events not being actualized is not a decree.
Thus, the author will claim that the event of his writing the two paragraphs above happened because God had decreed it; he would also insist that it has also been decreed by God that I am writing these thoughts.
All of God's decrees are immutably executed and their ends perfectly accomplished; they all executed and accomplished and applied solely by the sovereign activities of God alone, without any human activities.
Not so with the man's pompous and magisterial legislations.
5. Take for example God's eternal decree for God to justify His people.
Much of what he said on justification is true. Justification is indeed a good example of God's eternal decree; it deals with the eternal salvation of God's people; it has to be decreed, accomplished, and executed, all by the free and sovereign activities of Triune God, to ensure God's immutable purpose for as many as have been appointed unto eternal glory.
HOWEVER, it is plain fallacy and irrationality to use this example of justification to prove and validate his initial assertion that "God has predestined every single event of our lives."
6. Brandan
Sing F Lau, yes this comment has been predestined. All thoughts - every minute detail is perfectly planned.
Let's see where this idea leads us.
Gen 6
5 ¶And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
So, every minute detail of every imagination of the thoughts of man's hearts was perfectly planned by GOD... GOD perfectly planned all those thoughts of man's heart that was evil continually.
On the other hand, as a result of God having perfectly planned
What a blasphemous idea!
But this is also perfectly planned by God; it is all fated, says my Muslim friends.
So, every minute detail of every imagination of the thoughts of man's hearts was perfectly planned by GOD... GOD perfectly planned all those thoughts of man's heart that was evil continually.
On the other hand, as a result of God having perfectly planned
What a blasphemous idea!
But this is also perfectly planned by God; it is all fated, says my Muslim friends.
