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| All jumbled up! |
A Reformed Order of Salvation
or
A Deformed Disorder of Fiction?
The following order of salvation is taken from a short article from Monergism.com http://www.monergism.com/direct…/link_category/Ordo-Salutis/
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is
1) election,
2) predestination,
3) gospel call
4) inward call
5) regeneration,
6) conversion (faith & repentance),
7) justification,
8) sanctification, and
9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
The above order is taken from Monergism.com website because it is the top one when I googled 'reformed ordo salutis.' I checked a few others... the order is essentially the same in the other reformed sites.
I want to show you that this grand sounding order of salvation is:
- Damning: it damns the eternal destiny of many elects.
- Blasphemous: it conditions divine sovereignty on human activities.
- Irrational: the outward/gospel call precedes inward/effectual call.
- Ignorant: have no clue on what constitutes 'effectual call', and the distinct aspects of justification.
- Nonsensical: Regeneration to life precedes/without the justification of life!
- Contradictory: contradicts the reformed Confession of Faith.
- Perverting Rom 8:29-30.
I will demonstrate each of the points above as we go along.
Anyone is welcome to dispute with me but please be kind to yourselves, and read these non-reformed order of salvation first;
If you are seeing the evils of the 'reformed' order of salvation, feel free to point them out. Have a good time.
First, let us state an assumption - that the reformed order of salvation embraces each and every elect, that is, it applies to, and is true of every elect.
The ordo's appeal to Romans 8:29-30 confirms this.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
It is very plain, and beyond any shadow of a doubt that this passage embraces the full and complete number of God's elect, and none excepted. The number foreknown is the exact same number called, justified, and glorified; not one more, and not one less in each divine activity.
If any dispute the validity of the above assumption, please let him present his case.
Perhaps the reformed folks have one ordo salutis for some elect and another set of ordo salutis for the rest of the elect. That might be the case but I have not read one yet. If anyone knows another besides the one shown above, please let them tell us.
Yoel Rizo-Patron
Do Scriptures teach that the church collaborates to bring those whom the spirit has given new birth and are out there wandering and lost without a shepherd and church family?
Do Scriptures teach that the church collaborates to bring those whom the spirit has given new birth and are out there wandering and lost without a shepherd and church family?
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| Orderly |
Sing F Lau
Yes, and yes, and yes! A church home is needed for the WELL-BEING of God's children here on earth. Their BEING as God's children is entirely by God's own activity - 'which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.' Not the will or good intention of the preacher.
Yes, and yes, and yes! A church home is needed for the WELL-BEING of God's children here on earth. Their BEING as God's children is entirely by God's own activity - 'which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.' Not the will or good intention of the preacher.
Matthew 10
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
Harvest ALREADY there by the divine work of grace. Go and gather them into churches. They have been made perfectly fir for heaven and eternal glory.
Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Disciples can only be made out of God's children, those already effectually called to grace and salvation by God's free and sovereign grace.
Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Only those effectually called to grace and salvation by the free and sovereign grace of God are able to hear the gospel, call on the Lord, and believe in him.
Sing F Lau
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
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Let me state that in this ordo of salvation, ONLY the first 2 links (election and predestination) and the last link (glorification) is correct and in the right place. All the rest, they are either in the wrong place and wrongly understood, or both. I will substantiate this as we go along.
Yoel Rizo-Patron
So let me try 3) regeneration. 4)Gospel call. 5)inward call. 6)conversion. 7)justification. 8) santification. came close?
So let me try 3) regeneration. 4)Gospel call. 5)inward call. 6)conversion. 7)justification. 8) santification. came close?
Sing F Lau
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
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1. I want to show you that this grand-sounding (reformed) order of salvation, IF TRUE, will damn the eternal destiny of many elect.
According to the ordo salutis, the gospel call is the first link in the APPLICATION of redemption, and is the necessary instrument unto inward call and regeneration and conversion. The conclusion is very simple: without gospel call there would be no inward call, no regeneration and no conversion. Period.
So, in this 'reformed' ordo salutis, the gospel ministry is indispensable unto inward call and regeneration and conversion.
This notion would work fine IF all the elect, without exception, are capable of being outwardly called by the gospel ministry. To be capable of being outwardly called by the gospel ministry, the elect must be SENTIENT [capable of perceiving and understanding spiritual truth] to hear and receive the gospel, IN ADDITION to being reached with the gospel.
For the 'reformed' ordo salutis t be true, all the elect without exception must have the capability to receive the gospel ministry, AS WELL AS the opportunity of being reached with the gospel ministry. Without the capability and opportunity, they do not have the gospel call that is necessary to their inward call and regeneration and conversion!
That is, they are damned by this 'reformed' ordo salutis.
Any elect that are incapable of being reached with the gospel by whatever reason - whether the incapability in them like dying in infancy, mentally challenged, deaf and blind, etc, or never had the benefits of the gospel ministry - are thus DAMNED by this 'reformed' ordo salutis to be left to remain in their native sate of condemnation and death.
The reformed folks may retort, and insist, 'BUT ALL God's elect have the capability for, as well as the opportunity of, the gospel ministry, God sovereignly guarantees that!.' I heard all that before! Some rant, 'ALL the elect, without exception, will hear and believe the gospel', ya, the 'reformed' gospel!
Some who are a little less stiffnecked would suggest that for those elect without the capability for or opportunity of the gospel ministry, there is a different and special ordo salutis just for them. Their 'exception' clause does the magic!
Sing F Lau
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)
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I want to show you that this 'reformed' ordo salutis starts off at a completely WRONG place with gospel call as the first link in the APPLICATION of redemption!
This notion is theologically blasphemous, biblically impossible, confessionally ignorant, and logically insane. I will address these briefly.
Theologically blasphemous
The Triune God sovereignly PURPOSED the eternal redemption of His elect, and sovereignly ACCOMPLISHED that redemption in and through Jesus Christ. The Scriptures declares that the accomplished redemption is sovereignly applied to each elect directly and immediately, without human aid or gospel instrumentality.
The Triune God DOES NOT leave the APPLICATION of eternal redemption to the elect personally to the gospel call issued by preachers!. Why would the all-wise God commit such folly, getting puny men involved in such an all-important work of redemption?
The 'reformed' ordo salutis conditions the application of the accomplish redemption to the elect on the human activities of preaching the gospel, and of his elect of hearing and believing it. That being so, let us ask, how much and whose preaching of the gospel will be used to effect inward call?
That will immediately endanger the eternal destiny of some of God's elect. God DOES NOT commit such foolishness. The 'reformed' ordo salutis insist God does.
Biblically impossible
The gospel ministry is consistently seen and understood as the means ordained for the benefits of God's children, to inform and instruct them the truth of their salvation by the free grace of God.
The gospel ministry is consistently seen and understood as the means ordained for the benefits of God's children, to inform and instruct them the truth of their salvation by the free grace of God.
Christ told Peter,... "FEED... FEED... FEED... my sheep and my lambs.' Feeding concerns with the living - i.e. God's existing children. Christ already has His sheep and lambs out there. Eternal redemption has been applied to them. The gospel of that eternal redemption by God's free and sovereign needs to be brought to them, so that they might know the truth of their redemption. The gospel declares what God HAS DONE.
Apostle Paul declares, 'For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.' The preaching of the gospel comes to them that perish, and them that ARE SAVED. Those that ARE SAVED are already there, and the gospel comes to them. Those that ARE SAVED are those elect whom God has APPLIED personally the eternal redemption, and the gospel is meant to announce and proclaim that truth to them.
Those converted on the day of Pentecost were ALREADY DEVOUT God-fearing Jews before they ever heard the gospel. The eternal redemption has been applied to them freely and sovereignly the grace of God before they heard the gospel on the day of Pentecost. The same is true of the Ethiopian eunuch, and the centurion too. The gospel ministry is for the nurturing of the lives that God Himself has freely and effectually called to grace and salvation.
Confessionally ignorant.
Read the WCF chapter 10. The application of eternal redemption begins with the Triune God's act of effectual calling - the free (i.e. not conditions of anything in man or of man) and sovereign activities of God in bringing an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation. And God does not involve man or the gospel ministry in his work of effectual calling. Go and read it real carefully, line by line, phrase by phrase.
Read the WCF chapter 10. The application of eternal redemption begins with the Triune God's act of effectual calling - the free (i.e. not conditions of anything in man or of man) and sovereign activities of God in bringing an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of grace and salvation. And God does not involve man or the gospel ministry in his work of effectual calling. Go and read it real carefully, line by line, phrase by phrase.
And please remember well... to call an elect out of his native state of condemnation and death to grace and salvation, the divine activities of justification, regeneration and adoption with the gift of the Spirit of adoption MUST TAKE PLACE... in that number and order. (That's the order laid out in the WCF!) The effectual call turns a condemned dead sinner into a justified, regenerated adopted son of God, thus enabling him to respond to the gospel call when it comes.
Logically insane: why would the reformed folks condition the application of eternal salvation of God's elect upon man and his instrumentality to deliver the gospel call? Why can't God Himself be the one and only Active Agent in applying the eternal redemption to each and every one of His elect directly and immediately, without human instrumentality? Is it because reformed men are fearful that God won't be able to perform withOUT their help? Is it because they think God purposely and wisely involve them in the work of applying redemption to His elect? Which is which? Whatever, both are insane and presumptuous.
Of course, it must be said that God does appoint human instrumentality to proclaim the good news that God Himself has freely and sovereignly applied the eternal redemption to His elect personally, that is, to announce what has happened - a world of difference from saying that that announcement is the instrumentality through which eternal redemption is applied.
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p/s
When thinking of the Order of Salvation, it is helpful to separate the various phases/facets in the order into their DISTINCT and LOGICAL phases/facets.
They are, in NUMBER (five of them) and ORDER, these:
- Redemption purposed...
- Redemption accomplished...
- Redemption applied...
- Redemption experienced/evidenced......
- Redemption consummated...
A biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
