Is it by grace alone, or grace plus something

Your Eternal salvation by divine grace ALONE;  This is what it means if it is indeed by grace alone:

- God ALONE purposed that salvation for all elect before time.

- Christ ALONE accomplished that salvation for all elect at the cross.

- The Holy Spirit ALONE applies that salvation to each elect personally.

- These divine activities ALONE make a man perfectly fit for eternal glory.

- Nothing more is needed for a man's eternal salvation. 'It is finished!'

'Grace ALONE' means 'grace PLUS nothing,' not 'grace PLUS something.' But the latter is really what many people actually believe!

Timely salvation (deliverance that pertains to the present life on earth) is conditioned upon the activities of God's children.

- These divine activities enable a child of God to perform activities that will secure him deliverance in the life here and now.

There is the eternal salvation that was already purposed and accomplished and applied to those dead in trespasses and sins.

And there is ALSO the timely salvation that God's children must work out for themselves with fear and trembling, in obedience to their Father's will for them.

Distinguish the two, and don't confuse them.

Is your eternal salvation by grace ALONE plus nothing?

'... them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.'

Who are them that are sanctified by the faith that is in Christ?
Whose or what faith is it?

The Lord of glory said to Saul of Tarsus: (Acts 16)
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The Lord gave him a very specific job description!

Verse 18 speaks of one and the same group of people - "whom" the Lord of glory is sending him UNTO. The pronouns 'whom...their... them... they... them' all refer to the one same group of people.

Questions:
1. Unto whom did Christ send apostle Paul:
- to all generally and none specifically, or "them which are sanctified by the faith that is in [Christ]?

2. Who are those whose eyes need opening by the gospel ministry:
- those dead in trespasses and sins, or God's children who are blind to the truth of their salvation?

3. Who are those in darkness that need to be brought to the light by the gospel ministry:
- those dead in trespasses and sins, or God's children who are ignorant of their salvation?

4. Who are those that can be turned from the power of Satan unto God by the gospel ministry:
- those dead in trespasses and sins, or God's children deceived by lies and superstition and fables?

5. Who are they that may receive forgiveness of sins through the gospel ministry:
- those dead in trespasses and sins, or God's children?

6. What is the sanctification that is by the faith that is in Christ?

7. Who are them that are sanctified by the faith that is in Christ?

Let me hear your answers to these specific questions. Thanks.

Paul said,
8 ¶ Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Did you notice his words, "I endure all things for the elect’s sakes."

Apostle Paul is specifically instructed that his ministry is intended specifically "among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." It has no relevance for others.

He freely gives us ALL THINGS - what are they?

Joh 19:28 "After this, Jesus knowing that ALL THINGS were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst."

Ro 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us ALL THINGS?"

 ALL THINGS accomplished by Jesus Christ for His people are also the ALL THINGS given to each of God's elect personally - no more and no less. They are co-extensive!

'ALL THINGS' must be defined by the Scriptures itself. Scriptures is its own interpreter.

‎"ALL THINGS" that were accomplished by Jesus Christ for His people are the same as ALL THINGS freely given to His people. Not a single thing that Jesus Christ accomplished for His people shall be withheld from anyone of God's elect.

If this be the case, then many things that people IMAGINE to be among the "ALL THINGS" are just figments of their own imaginations.

For example, the perseverance of the saints in a life of faith and obedience to the end of their lives - is this among the "ALL THINGS" that Christ accomplished for His people? If it is, then every elect will manifest this thing in their life. However, this is obviously not true. There are God's children who do not even have the capability to hear and be converted... and there are others who do not have the opportunity to hear the gospel and be converted. How then can these persevere in a life of faith and obedience???

However, the biblical truth of perseverance of the saints this: every one for whom Christ accomplished their salvation shall remain in the STATE OF GRACE. Jesus Christ did accomplish this STATE OF GRACE for every elect who were by nature in the STATE OF CONDEMNATION. Each elect is brought into the STATE OF GRACE, without a single exception, and forever remains in it, because Christ accomplished it for each and every one of the elect.

But to remain in a life of faith and obedience is a BIG THING THAT a child of God must WORK OUT for himself with fear and trembling, through the grace of God working in them.

Christ did not accomplish that for them.
They must WORK OUT for themselves.

The signs of the apostles

The signs of the apostles

 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none;
but such as I have give I thee:
In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up:
and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mr 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them,... and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The pronouns 'them' have SPECIFIC reference to the apostles ONLY -[i.e. the unbelieving 11 apostles mentioned in verse 14 - "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen."]

The signs were promised to follow the apostles who would believe/obey their commission to go and preach the gospel everywhere. "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

And these are the records of the fulfillment of that promise... those signs ACCOMPANIED the apostles. These signs have reference to the apostles, NOT those who would believe the preaching of the apostles. Those who think of the latter are completely deceived and deluded!

Ac 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by THE APOSTLES.

Ac 5:12 And by the hands of THE APOSTLES were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.

Ac 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

Ro 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

With the passing of the apostles, the signs of the apostles passed with them!!!

Don't look for the signs of the apostles... the have ceased with the apostles. If  you do, the spirit of delusion shall overtake you and you will be deluded by the devil.

Instead study and contend for the faith once delivered to the saints by the Apostles of Jesus Christ. Paul last words to the NT pastors teachers:
 4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

He exhorted Timothy to do thus: (1Tim 4)
 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Perseverance of the saints in the State of Grace

What is guaranteed?
Kept in the state of grace, or
kept in a life of faith and holiness to the end?

- Those whom God, by His power and grace alone, has called out of their native state of sin and death to that state of grace and eternal salvation in Christ Jesus, He shall also, by the same power and grace keep them in that state of grace.

- Such "can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere (i.e. remain) therein [i.e. the state of grace] to the end, and be eternally saved."

- "This perseverance of the saints in the state of grace depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with Him, the oath of God, the abiding of His Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof."

The perfections of God guarantee the saints remaining in the state of grace unto eternal glory: (Gill, BoD book 6, chapter 15)

- The immutability of God guarantees it
- The wisdom of God guarantees it
- The power of God guarantees it
- The goodness, grace and mercy of God guarantees it
- The justice of God guarantees it
- The faithfulness of God guarantees it

The perseverance of the saints in the state of grace is guaranteed by God.

The perseverance of the saints in the state of grace is DIFFERENT from the perseverance of the saints in a life of faith and holiness. Too many - both calvinists and their cousins arminians - do not know the difference. Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.

The former is guaranteed, the latter is not. Saints are exhorted to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. Many saints fail to do so... choosing a wide-gate/broad-road discipleship... thus making shipwreck of their faith but none fall from the state of grace.

To deny the perseverance of the saints in the state of grace is a repudiation of God's perfections.

To insist on the perseverance of the saints in a life of faith and holiness to the end is a fiction that denies the facts of Scriptures, and is injurious to God's saints!


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828) on Perseverance (Page: 1069)
3. (Theol.) Continuance in a state of grace until it is succeeded by a state of glory; sometimes called final perseverance, and the perseverance of the saints. It is 'continuance in the state of grace... unto glory'! This has been perverted into 'in a life of faith and holiness to the end.'


God's children have the evil propensity for degrading the gospel of grace alone into a gospel of grace PLUS works. "Grace ALONE" in its purity is so contrary to man. They must somehow sneak in their works somewhere in connection with their ...eternal salvation. They would not have their eternal salvation by free grace alone... though they rave and rant about it!

Perverting the perseverance of the saints in the state of grace into the perseverance of the saints in a life of faith and holiness to the end is a classic example of that.

'Thou shalt not bear false witness'

I abhor misrepresentation from any quarter.
Ask any Mormon whether Jesus is the brother to the devil.
'Thou shalt not bear false witness' is still in force.

Saturday July 14
Matthew One posted the above cartoon, and remarked:

Matthew
Hmm..... is that why some are teaching devils are sons of God? In their nephlim?
[He tagged the people named: Sing F Lau, Michael Lim, Chan Kok Yu, Cephas Petersen, Gideon Lau and Steve Chong.

These men like: Daniel Hodges, Ce'Phas Lee, Daniel Hodges, Ce'Phas Lee, Vaughn Winslett, Vincent A. Bess, Nicholas Toh, Steven Anderson, Robert Cruz, Shawn Barnish and Edward King]

[a man named David made some comments but he deleted them all... so there are 'gaps' in the exchanges below]

James
Matthew the bible has been pretty clear on who the Neph.... are from the Beginning and they are not from Kolob...

Do a study on the term "sons of God" and it is pretty clear its a reference to angels.

Sean
Angels are never children of God.

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Shawn
‎Sean, beat me to it! LOL!
At NO time did Angels have sex with women.
Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God.

Believers BECOME a son via adoption.

In Genesis 6 all it is saying is that the Sons of God (believers) went out and took wives of the daughters of men (unbelievers) thus corrupting themselves.

That's all it meant.

And Giants, men of renown, etc are just big men. But not like what we were taught in Sunday School, etc! LOL!

Goliath was a big man, but I've calculated his height and men his height have existed in MY lifetime.

Sean 
Andre the Giant
And that is why you use a king james bible. Every other "version" will lead down the road of false doctrine

Matthew
 I get pretty suspicious when some claim almost the same doctrine as mormons.

Sean
Ahhh a bible corrector [rebutting what David said.]

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

You must be a dispensationalist
[imbecile men love to throw labels when they can't handle discussion, sing]

Sean
Tell me why those are not saved humans. Using english and the kjv only

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Show me how "sons of God == angels" [Sean to David]

 No you did not [David said he did]

Sing F Lau
Matthew, it is shameful of you to dismiss the teaching of Scriptures by taking potshots instead of sound biblical exegesis, and reasoned presentation!

The 'sons of God' in Gen 6 are REMOTELY the godly Sethites. Supposing they were godly Sethites, godly men marry ungodly daughters of men WILL NEVER, CAN NEVER, HAS NEVER produced what is documented in Gen 6. Even the marriage between the ungodly heathens for many 1000s of years has not produced anything near to what is recorded in Gen 6!

"Sons of god" were NOT imagined fictionalized godly Sethites.
And the puerile term 'fallen angelic marriages' is a very misleading term.

The 'sons of God' were no mere fallen angels. Angels do not marry! Everyone knows that, even idiots! So get it right!!! "Sons of god" DO NOT EQUAL to fallen angels.

The "sons of god" were FALLEN ANGELS who "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" (Jude 6), i.e. FALLEN angels who left their own first, native habitation, in the SPIRIT REALM, and TRESPASSED [i.e. left their own native habitation] into the HUMAN REALM (i.e. taking upon themselves humanity and multiplied themselves with daughters of men) with the horrendous result recorded in Gen 6.

And it is a biblical fact that angelic beings can take on real human form, and do the real human activities... just read the various incidents in Genesis.

Nothing else is an adequate explanation of the plain facts stated in Gen 6.

It was Satan's serious attempt to circumvent the appearance of the Seed of the woman, the CRUSHER of his head!!!

Had God not spared Noah...the whole human would have been destroyed... then there would have been no redemption. Satan would have triumphed by circumventing the coming of the promised Messiah.

Sing F Lau
The common and popular idea of 'mixed marriage' between the godly Sethites and the ungodly Cainites - is the most atrocious example of anachronism in biblical interpretation.
Mixed marriage was a MUCH MUCH later issue imported into Gen 6.

And they think that the naive and simplistic and anachronistic view is able to explain what actually happened!

It is as stupid as the Americans attributing their economic woes and sovereign debt to Chinese 'yuan'!

Sean
That's just pure fiction. That is not what scripture says. Nor are you using biblical terms and definitions.
 People being saved before gen 6

Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Sing F Lau
And just what has people being saved before Gen 6 help to explain who the sons of God are in Gen 6?

The idea of 'godly' and 'ungodly' is read into the text because of the addiction to SOUND-BYTE.... the term 'sons of God' confuses those addicted to sound byte to introduce the idea of 'godly line' into the picture.

Look at the text:
6:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

It doesn't say godly sons of men marrying the ungodly daughters of men.

It says, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The contrast between 'sons of God' and 'daughters of men' is NOT between godly and ungodly. The contrast is between 'offsprings' of God and 'offsprings' of man.

Remember Jesus, the only begotten Son of God - He is the eternal Word made flesh. The 'sons of God' in Gen 6 are the fallen angels who "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation"... i.e. FALLEN angels who left their own first, native habitation, in the SPIRIT REALM, and TRESPASSED into the HUMAN REALM (i.e. taking upon themselves humanity and multiplied themselves with daughters of men) with the horrendous result recorded in Gen 6.

If you insist that 'daughters of men' refer to ungodly women, then you are saying that verse 1 is speaking of ungodly men multiplying and producing ungodly women.

But verse 1 is PLAINLY a general statement of the human race multiplying as per God's command to them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Sing F Lau 
The 'sons of God' - fallen angels who "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" - but took upon themselves human nature, brought about the catastrophic effect that necessitated universal destruction.


But the Son of God - the eternal Word made flesh - brought ETERNAL REDEMPTION.

Matthew
One plain present day facts would totally overthrow these scholars over reading into the hebrew text. And a single verse declared by paul in acts also disputed their claim of another 'type' of hybrid mankind.

Anyone want to guess what are the 2 points are?

Sing F Lau
David, but men like Matthew are selectively blind. They choose to ignore all the biblical facts - they don't even have the courtesy to refute the facts set before them. They will continue to blah blah blah their pet ideas, however inadequate they are shown to be, and even though they contradict, and are discredited with the plain facts f Scriptures.

Matthew
3 points I am going to "highlight":
1) Paul declares these to grecian heathen(which still today they believe are descendents of gods like Hercules and others..., chinese too had this mythos)
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; <<< One verse.
2) Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood. <<< This is another clear verse from KJB which deny any existence of such hybrid mankind.
3) Blood transfusions does NOT care if the blood is jews, grecian, asians or Africans. If you say there is, show a
case where you can draw a blood type from any such "hybrid" mankind and place them under very high densities microscope which
does not show or they do not look like other blood. The Nazi should have checked more properly before they lable other as such "subhuman". So does the japs should have and also the jews today!!!!

Matthew
That is why I support KJB way way way over any scholar "narrations" or interpretation!!!
 ‎@Sing: you claim you love chinese because you are one, what does WW2 history told you about how the Japs view chinese, korean race compare to themselves??

Sing F Lau
I love Chinese not because I'm a Chinese. I love them because they too.... though obsessed with pork like you... are also creatures made in the image of God. The Chinese are no worse than the Jews...

O, tell the WW@ history on another thread please. I would love to hear your take on it.

You have DRIFTED far away from your initial point... you don't even have the discipline keep to your subject!!!

Sing F Lau
You are using myths to discredit the Bible's teaching. And that's absolutely pathetic!
If you are honest, you must deal with biblical texts, and exegete them in harmony with the whole of Scriptures.

Even fools can do what you are doing - citing myths to dismiss Scriptures. You have not once exegete the relevant passages. When you do attempt to, you messed them up. For example:

Biblical text quited:
Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Your conclusion:
## This is another clear verse from KJB which deny any existence of such hybrid mankind.

Your wrong assumption: that any of so called 'hybrid mankind' survived the flood, and multiplied. Why, the KJV, and for that matter every other translations INFORMED US in the plainest sense that all those 'hybrid mankind' was COMPLETELY DESTROYED in the flood!
[The universal flood was intended to destroy the 'hybrid mankind' and the Adamic mankind that was severely and universally corrupted by it.] But Noah of the Adamic mankind found grace with the LORD God Jehovah.

You are just too obtuse and stubborn to admit the truth SO PLAINLY STATED. That you raise Gen 10:32 passage as an objection is truly revealing!

Sing F Lau
That is why I support KJB way way way over any scholar "narrations" or interpretation!!!
=========
You should really say, "That is why I support my own interpretations of KJB way way way over any scholar's narrations or interpretations!!! - like my conclusion on Gen 10:32."

Have a good day!


Sing F Lau
Matthew @ "Blood transfusions does NOT care if the blood is jews, grecian, asians or Africans." ======
So what is the problem? All ARE descended from ONE man Noah and his sons. Why do you expect different blood? You expect some to descend from the 'hybrid mankind'? Noah was NO hybrid mankind. His ancestry was traced directly back to Adam's. He was conceived and born BEFORE the 'sons of God' began messing up with the mankind.

Matthew @ "If you say there is, show a case where you can draw a blood type from any such "hybrid" mankind and place them under very high densities microscope which does not show or they do not look like other blood." ======

EVEN if such hybrid mankind were to exist today, just what make you think their blood would be different? Such 'hybrid mankind' were conceived in the very wombs of the daughters of men - DIDN'T you read the Scriptures?

According to your ABSURD reasoning, you must insist that even Jesus Christ, THE Son of God, must also had different blood.

HOWEVER you missed the whole point. The evil of the 'hybrid mankind' lies NOT in having different blood BUT in its satanic sinfulness and wickedness... they were giants in their evils and wickedness... and corrupted the entire generation of Noah... with the devastating effect recorded here:

4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

READ these two verses AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN... and find a ADEQUATE explanation for such PLAIN FACTS ... then you will begin to understand what was happening!

If you think marriage between godly men and ungodly women can have such effect, you are just TOOOOOOO simplistic, and haven't begin to deal with the problem YET!

And surely, if mixed marriage HAD such devastating effect, and would incur such wrath of God, then it is more than reasonable to expect a PLAIN commandment, SOLEMNLY warning against such evil.
There is none!

"Let the day perish wherein I was born..."

Matiu
How many bible christian thinks it is Not biblical, especially baptist, to celebrate birthday of another saints? Who does celebrate birthday as recorded in the bible?

Janey 

The one who celebrated his birthday is the Pharaoh, which wasn't good for the baker.

Matiu

Verses please?

Janey
Genesis: 40:20-22 (KJB)
20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants.
21 And he res...tored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand:
22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them.

It looks like celebrating birthdays are NOT biblical, which always involves with someone getting killed, and focuses on self instead of the LORD.See More

Matiu
How about New testament?

Shaw
Just celebrated my daughters b-day last week.
And they announce b-days at FWBC too.

She is speaking of this. Which if course is not listed as a sin, but a record of event.

Genesis 40:20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants.

Matiu
Yeah shawn, methodist strongly practice this also for children and also "new comer".

Shaw
Obviously people kept track of their birth days or how else did they know the age of a person?

Genesis 17:24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

Matiu
Genesis 17:24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
<<< It was not recorded that it was on the same day of his birthday. The verse about 8 days for young children to be circumcised also not too far into reading.

Matt 14:6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.
Mark 6:21 And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;

2 verses shown that the same day the "request"(actually snare) for chopping off baptist head was asked.

Matiu
How about this verse?
Gal_2:20 *I am crucified with Christ*: nevertheless I live; *yet not I*, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
============
As far as I am aware, crucified meant death, that was a death penalty.

Pen That's true! If I remember correctly... someone was behead at all the birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible (2 i think).

But like all things in life... I think it really depends on where a person's heart is!

Matiu
How about this verse?
Gal 2:20 *I am crucified with Christ*: nevertheless I live; *yet not I*, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
============
As far as I am aware, crucified meant death, that was a death penalty.

Pen
I don't understand the connection between birthdays and that verse??

Matiu
When is the old nature born? What does the "birthday" celebrations trying to do to the person being "celebrated"?

Pen
ummm, I dunno.... sorry... it's still over my head.

Matiu
Whose head was chopped off at the birthday of herod?

Pen
John's

What about ...... "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,... to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself." Rom 14?See More

Matiu
If you are john's follower at that time, what would be the most "natural" reaction to any such event later?

Pen
oooohhhh! so are you saying that John's followers would then be afraid to celebrate a birthday cause someone might get beheaded??

Matiu
Did paul remind about birthday's event to these followers when he first met them after the resurrection event?

Pen
I dunno.. did he? And if so, where at?

Matiu
No, pual did not. Why he did not is the more proper question?

Pen
Ok... I'll bite :) .. Why didn't he?? ;-)

Matiu
‎Shaw, Still following this comment trail?

Janey
How about the Harold who want to find Jesus and kill Him by sending the 3 wiseman to search for Him after he heard about Jesus' birth?

Matiu
Nay....the worst of all is the "wish and blow off the candle"??

Pen
Even so, I couldn't imagine not have a birthday party for a kid!

I think it's as much fun for the parents as it is the kids :)

Sing F Lau
A man's broken background can adversely affects and colors his view of life - uncle Matiu is an example. You will see evidence from below...  just read on.

There was once a man who "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters."
And this man who... feared God celebrated his children birthdays... such that when they grew up and had their own families, they celebrated their birthdays too.

Go and read Job a little. Gill has an interesting commentary on Job 1:4.
"And his sons went and feasted in their houses, everyone his day"... everyone HIS DAY... EVERYONE his day! Read that?

What's your day, Matthew? Are you thankful to God for each year He lends to you?
Are you thankful to your mother - sending her a gift on your day?

We are going through Job in the evening service now.See More

Matiu
I do not know, that old man is dead, if you like that heathen worshipping rebels, you can ask the Lord. As far as I know, Scripture declares it's death. Did you see anywhere in NT Paul commanded such pride filled flesh edification? Yes, I am using the word 'it'.

Sing F Lau
To him who sees birthday celebration as "pride filled flesh edification", then to him is "pride filled flesh edification."

You asked, "Who does celebrate birthday as recorded in the bible?"

Your question is answered, hasn't it? You don't ...even have the courtesy to acknowledge it!!!!!

Now, you have moved your goal post by asking, "Did you see anywhere in NT Paul commanded such pride filled flesh edification?"

That the wrong question. Your question presupposes that birthday celebration requires a divine sanction. The right questions are, does birthday celebration need biblical sanction? Is birthday celebration part of divine worship? Has birthday celebration been forbidden in the NT?

The pride and stubbornness of the old man are still much alive!!! They need mortification.See More

Matiu
What's your day, Matthew? Are you thankful to God for each year He lends to you?
Are you thankful to your mother - sending her a gift on your day?
-----------------
I do not know, she is now in hell. I perfectly believe she is right now res...erved for everlasting contempt as she worship another BarJesus like my brother did. Please tell that to anyone from my family, and if God does not grant them repentance unto life, Praise be to Him for:
------------------
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.See More

Matiu
Are you thankful to God for each year He lends to you?
-------------
Yes. But not to the day old man I was naturally born, God gave than man death sentence. As for the new birth, I suspect even lazarus does not know which day it was raised...., unless it was told him. God never did mention to me explicitly.
-------------
Gal 2:20 *I am crucified with Christ*: nevertheless I live; *yet not I*, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself forSee More

Matthew Ong This declaration is spiritually true for all saints, I believe, there is only one way of regeneration written in the bible.

Sing F Lau
Sorry to hear that your mum has passed away.

Don't let your thought be scattered tooooo much. Stick to the subject.
Don't need to avoid it... "Who does celebrate birthday as recorded in the bible?"

When you asked that question, did you mean natural birthday or spiritual birthday?
Don't move goal posts in discussion... it is very shameful.

So, do you think Job's children celebrated their natural birthdays or their new-birth dates - assuming that such birthdays can be known.

Matiu
"Sorry to hear that your mum has passed away.
<<< I am not sad at all, I expected her to be, because she and her other family member are constantly used to attacked me. The LORD used her to show me, "you cannot FAKE" to be a christian. Hard but goooooooooooooooooooood truth. I saw how my father and mother still have the "sting of death" with them at their last few moment. Tooo bad for my brother, he "ran" away from his own mind. But, "he cannot FAKE death".
===================
I think only wesley and gill commented on this "his day" as birthday. Now I can understand why the methodist insisted on "birthday" for children and their member and doing it round the year for the cell-group setting. Blowing of candle is one of the focus of the event.
I do not think it is so, because if these are practiced celebration within OT the bible might have recorded such important feast for king david or solomon. If you can find one clear explicit text, I might consider.

[uncle Matiu mistakenly thinks Gill is a methodist!]

Sing F Lau
Matiu, go on thinking what you wish to think...
I will think of Job's testimony anytime more than your thoughts!!!
No need to waste further time.
Thanks Matthew. Take good care. The Lord bless you.

Matiu‎
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/contemporary-christianity.pdf
=================
Listed there is "birthday"

Sing F Lau
At last you hope you have found a straw to hold on to. Well done!

"Birthday" is not listed there! You can't even quote properly.
"singing Happy Birthday" is listed there.

So, are you and the author talking about the same thing?
What does he mean by "singing Happy Birthday"? Perhaps as a gimmicks and tool of saving souls? May be sing 'happy birthday' to Jesus on 25th December? Did you ever find out? Are you addicted to sound-bytes as well?

Do you ever even think and ask - how does celebrating birthday in thanking God for His goodness constitute "inventions and alterations made to the simplicity of the gospel"?

And perhaps you may like to ask the esteemed author if he honors his parents in some ways by doing something special for them on their birthdays?

It is so very tedious and wearisome reasoning with you.
I'm done. Matiu, go on thinking what you wish to think...
And may the Lord bless you.

Begotten, then sent later!

Eternal Word was made flesh and Son of God begotten, 

then later He was sent into the world

Dane posted:
The apostles were already apostles before Jesus sent them out just as Jesus was already God's Son even before He was sent into the world.

The issue at hand is not the deity of Jesus in his humanity but his sonship in eternity.

Jerrye
‎@ Dan, Doesn't the Scriptures say that "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God?" Jn. 1:1
I don't see anything here that tells of a "Sonship" in these verses...

Sing F Lau
Brother Dan, they were men first before they were made apostles by Jesus. And they were made apostles first before they were sent out! First they were men... and they remain men until they were made apostles. And AFTER they were made apostles, they were still men, and as apostles they they were sent out.

The Word is eternal, but the Word was not Son. The Word was made flesh and the Son of God was begotten. After the Son of God was begotten, He was sent for His work. And He was officially sent for His work at His water baptism, where it was public declared, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

There are the men... they were made apostles... so they are apostolic men... and as apostolic men they were sent out.

There is the eternal Word... He was made flesh... so He is Jesus Christ the God-man, the only begotten Son of God... and as God-man He was send out.

Put eternal sonship in the bin for a while. It clouds your thinking.

Dane
‎---------------------
The Word was made flesh and THE SON OF GOD WAS BEGOTTEN.
---------------------

If you recall I brought up the issue of the right translation of "monogenes" on PB group because this may determine the foundation of the sonship of Christ: whether eternal or incarnational.

The statement quoted, to me, is brought about by what I believe a mistranslation.

Bible students must not build around the meaning of "begotten" but the original text, MONOGENES, which should not be rendered 'begotten' but "only kind".

After we have translated the original text properly, only then can we start laboring for the right meaning of "begotten".

Sing F Lau 
So, tell us who is the 'only kind' - Jesus Christ that is BEGOTTEN and BORN, or the eternal UN-BEGOTTEN Word, or something else?

Perhaps the idea of 'eternal sonship' is only feasible with the re-translation of the KJT!

Jerrye
@ Dan, The Apostles were sent out by Jesus and given that name by Him AT THAT TIME...The name, APOSTLE means, according to Strong's: "a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ...I don't see how they could be apostles before that time...

Sing F Lau
Brother Dan, however μονογενής is to be translated, it is certain that it is a compound word from μόνος (G3441) and γίνομαι (G1096).

μόνος (G3441) : alone, only,

γίνομαι (G1096): to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.

That's from Strong. Not that I trust him. Just that he is far superior in his Greek.

[It is commonly imagined that 'only begotten' is from μόνος (G3441) and γενής (genes).] That's a basic error.

Dane
As my knowledge of Greek is very limited, I shall appeal directly to the scriptures.

"For this purpose the Son of God was MANIFESTED, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
- 1 John 3:8

... To manifest means to display or to bring to appearance.

Could we at least take the verse at face value. It says the Son of God was manifest.

Language could not be any plainer.

Sing F Lau
Isn't language more plainer than that the Son must be begotten first before the Son can be manifested?

And may I inquired, just when was the Son of God manifested?
Was it when the Word was made flesh, or was it when the Son of God officially entered His public ministry?

Mt 3:
13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Please don't equate the begetting of God's Son as the manifesting of God's Son.

John 1
29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Your fixation on 'eternal sonship' has confused your mind on these basic things.

The gospel is NOT the power of God to save sinners.

Sound-bytism is not rightly dividing the word of truth.
It obfuscates and abuses the word of truth with sound-byte.

A popular sound byte: The gospel is the power of God to save sinners.

Heshi wrote:
The only method whereby God saves sinners is the gospel of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, revealed, explained, and opened to us, so that we can see Jesus dying a substitute, putting away sins forever, and rising enthroned, as God’s Commander in Chief - (Rom 10:14-15) “And how shall they hear without preaching? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!”

Sing F Lau
Heshi, may be it has something to do with expression.
The only method God saved sinners is the LIFE and WORK of Jesus Christ. Period. So, the work of salvation is FINISHED by Christ.

The gospel is the good news of the salvation that has been accomplished by Jesus for His people. The gospel is to make known what God has done...

The gospel DOES NOT save at all. Good news doesn't save, even though good news most certainly informs, instructs, edifies, and calls God's children (those already regenerated) to believe the truth of their salvation that has taken place by God's free grace!!!

Glad tidings of good things PRESUPPOSES the salvation that has been accomplished and applied to sinners while they were still dead on trespasses and sins!

The gospel of peace presupposes peace that is already true... God has reconciled His people through the finished work of Jesus Christ! Christ saves... and the gospel informs us of the salvation that is completed in Him!

Heshi
Salvation isn't a one time event in past eternity, but at the cross, and in the life of the believer. He chose the "foolishness of preaching to SAVE those who believe". 1 Cor 1:18

Sing F Lau
‎Heshi,
- God purposed eternal salvation for His people in eternity.
- Christ secured that eternal salvation on the cross for the same people.
- The Holy Spirit applies that eternal salvation to a man dead in trespasses and sins at... God's appointed and approved time.... Once the eternal salvation is applied by the Holy Spirit, a man if perfectly fitted for eternal glory. Nothing more is needed. THIS SALVATION IS MOST DEFINITELY A ONE TIME EVENT - it cannot be repeated, improved upon, etc.

However, they are still here on earth, and God cares for their temporal well being as they journey to their eternal home.

- The gospel ministry is appointed to proclaim what the Triune God HAS DONE... gospel is good news of what HAS HAPPENED... it is not news of a good offer conditioned upon man's acceptance...
- The gospel ministry is appointed for the instruction and edification of those that ARE SAVED by the free and sovereign grace of God.
- The gospel ministry SAVES (simple present tense!) God's children from errors, superstition, lies, worldliness... and delivers them to godly, sober and righteous living. This is a salvation that God's children must work out for themselves throughout their lives here... and it affects their well being here on here.

Heshi
Past, present, and future. He has, will, and is saving, by the gospel, and the Person of God.

Scott
‎"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18

If the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom1:18) how are you going to save the perishing? How are you going to save if it is foolishness? ‘But unto us which ARE SAVED it is the power of God’ To a saved man whom God has saved when he hears the preaching of the cross, he sees in it a description of God’s wisdom and power in raising up the Lord Jesus Christ, to be the saviour of His elect, and guaranteeing salvation of every single one. It’s fabulous news.

The power is not in the gospel itself, it is in God through Jesus Christ, and the gospel tells us about it. It is the good news of that power. Why doesn’t it say in 1Cor 1:33 ‘unto the Jews the power of God’? because when the Bible says the gospel is the power of God, it means it’s received, it’s perceived, it’s discerned. It’s understood as the power of God by believers. Unless you are saved regenerate believer, you will receive, perceive, discern or consider the gospel foolishness. The gospel is not foolishness literally or in actually: the gospel is the good news about God’s power in Jesus Christ and to the unsaved man, they consider it foolishness, and to the saved, when we hear it, we say Amen I believe that! But unless you are ordained to eternal life you won’t believe (Acts 13:48)

That is why Paul would say in 2Tim1:10 the salvation of 1:9 is made manifest by the appearing of Jesus Christ and life and immortality are BOUGHT TO LIGHT THROUGH THE GOSPEL.

Matthew
Nicely worded Scott. Easy to read.

Sing F Lau
Past, present, and future. He has, will, and is saving, by the gospel, and the Person of God.
=========
Let's reason a little!
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD.
The PAST is what God HAS DONE in Christ to have you saved...
- He purposed your eternal redemption...
- Christ accomplished your eternal redemption...
- the Holy Spirit applied the eternal redemption to your personally...
- All these are completely by free grace, and completed perfectly. As a result you ARE SAVED...as saved as can be while here on earth, completely and perfectly fit for heaven.
- These are WITHOUT and APART from the gospel.
- There is gospel ONLY BECAUSE these divine acts HAVE TAKEN PLACE. There would be NO GOSPEL if these divine acts of salvation had not taken place. There is gospel because of what God HAS DONE to save His people in Christ Jesus and applied by the Holy Spirit.

Isn't that so simple, obvious, and plain?

The FUTURE is what God WILL DO to consummate your eternal redemption at Christ's return. You await glorification. And this will be completely by free grace too - WITHOUT any aid or cooperation from men!

The PRESENT is what you must do to work out your OWN salvation through your obedience to the Father's will. God works in His children to will and do... but they must will and do the good will of the Father. This salvation is entirely different... this is ongoing, involving your temporal well-being as God's children. This is saving by the gospel ministry, ministered through faithful men.

Mike
Wow, that was some deep stuff

Heshi
Scott, the gospel is the power of God because He says so. It is the instrument that He uses (Rom 1:16). the Greek on 1 Cor 1:18 is "being saved". There are dozens upon dozens of scriptures that speak of salvation in the past, present, an...d future. The Philipian Jailor asked what he must do to be be saved, Paul told him, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved (future)", and then he preached Christ unto Him. The Father elected, which is salvation. The Son redeemed, and saved us who believe. The Spirit applies the gospel, gives light and knowledge, even faith, so that we are saved in our experience. Then, when this world is ended, and we're in heaven's bliss, that is called in scripture, "salvation", too.

Sing F Lau ‎
Heshi, the gospel is the good news... good news is the message declaring what the power of God has accomplished in Jesus Christ to save His people.

The gospel itself HAS NO POWER, is NOT THE POWER... but sadly it is so commonly misunderstood, and misquoted.

Sing F Lau ‎
Heshi, here is a short article... very helpful to understand the 'past, present and future' issue. It is help you to understand the issue better. It helped me a great deal 10 years ago.
http://letgodbetrue.com/questions/when-was-paul-saved.htm

Read and study it... When Was Paul Saved?

Heshi
‎"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for IT IS THE power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" (Rom 1:16). "For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED".

One great danger to "systematizing" the bible, is... when we make plain scriptures say what they don't say, and hide and twist others, because they don't fit with our system of interpretation. The bible must speak for itself, and we must bow. It may not fit our system, but that only shows the system is flawed, not the language of God in scripture.

Sing F Lau
No, a real, and worse danger is the prevalent disease call sound-byte-itis. This common disease incapacitates and cripples man's ability discern to the SENSE of what they read. They are addicted to sound-byte.

The gospel is the good news... the news declares something good that has happened... the good that has happened is that God, by His sovereign power HAS SAVED His people from their condemnation and death, through the finished work of His Son.

God's power to save, and the gospel that announces the divine power that HAS SAVED are two different things. It takes just a little twisting to transfer that power from God to the gospel!

The message has no power to save. The message, however, does informs and instructs that God has POWERFULLY saved His people.

Biblical distinction is the essence of sound theology.
Sound-bytism is the mother of all confusion.

You quoted: '"For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED".

May I ask, who are them that can call upon the name of the Lord? Those still dead in trespasses and sins, or those already SAVED by God, i.e. regenerated with eternal life? Do you believe the former or the latter? If the former, you repudiate Christ plain statement, "Except a man be born again, he CANNOT...' and say that a man in his native state of trespasses and sins CAN. Christ says CANNOT!

And may I ask, "SHALL BE SAVED' - save from what? How does your believing in Jesus Christ save you? Is this the same as God saving you by His free and sovereign grace in Christ Jesus?

There is a good reason for this injunction:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Sound-byitis is a severe disease, crippling the ability to rightly divide the word of truth!
Sound-bytism is not rightly dividing the word of truth.
It obfuscates and abuses the word of truth.

Capitalism vs Socialism/Communism

 (found it in my in-box)

2Th 3:10 

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, 

that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

'No loaf for the loafers.'

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that  socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied 'hard' were upset and the students who studied 'little' were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied 'even less' and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied 'little'.

The second test average was a 'D'. No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that "socialism" would also ultimately 'fail' because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.


These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

To them gave He power to become the sons of God!

A little man moving a mountain!

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God!

John 1:12-13

  12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Sadly, so MANY think to be given "power to become the sons of God" is the SAME as to be born again or regenerated by God!!! That a most basic and obvious error. Just think about it!

A child is not born when he acknowledges a man as his father! A child who acknowledges a man as his father was ALREADY born much earlier. When he acknowledges a man as his father, he receives, and experiences the right and authority to claim that he is the son of that man, and have access to all the blessings and privileges that belong to the sons of that man! Though a son nevertheless, his non-acknowledgment deprives him of such EXPERIENTIAL and PRACTICAL blessings.

On Nov 10, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Joeho wrote:

Brother Sing,

I have a question for you that I'm sending privately to you rather than on the public Forum.  I raise the question to you because I respect your knowledge of Scripture and your soundness in the faith.

A man tells you that he believes that "Receiving Christ" in John 1:11-12 refers to the new birth.  He believes that the unregenerate sinner must so "Receive Christ" to be born again.  However, he quickly qualifies his point by saying that he also believes that God has effectually and irresistibly predestinated that all the elect shall so receive Christ.

Therefore, according to his reasoning, he believes that salvation is all of God just as fully as you. Therefore, you should not be upset with his view, nor strongly disagree with him.  How would you react?  How is this view different from the RBs whom you wisely left?

God speed to you, Brother,

Joeho

On November 10, 2011 8:59 AM sing wrote:

Dear Brother Joeho,

Thanks for your kind thoughts. If the truth be told, it is people like you who has taught me the gospel of Christ!

It is a serious mistake for him to understand 'receiving Christ' in John 1:11-12 as referring to new birth.

  12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

  13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is very clear that three distinct and specific things are mentioned in the two verses :

- 'received him' : man's act of believing and receiving Christ... (conversion)

- 'given the power to become the sons of God'... (experience the one's sonship)

- 'born of God' the new birth... (regeneration)

And the order of these three actions are obvious: new birth, conversion, and experiencing the right and authority to claim divine sonship.

A man who believes in Jesus Christ gives evidence that he has eternal life... 'whoever believes have eternal life.' Whoever believes HAS BEEN born of God, experiences the right and authority to divine sonship. It is obvious that one must be born of God first, which enables him to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, and in believing he is given the power to become... to claim himself as a son of God.

It is a common error to equate being given power to become the sons of God as the new birth!

The new birth by the sovereign activity of God that enables a man to believe.

And it is believing the gospel truth that enables a man to experience the power to become a son of God.

His believing that the unregenerate sinner, i,e, dead in trespasses and sins, can so 'receive Christ' in order to to be born again, is so contrary to Christ's own declaration, 'Except a man be born again, he CANNOT...'  

His belief has repudiated the declaration of Christ. He is contradicting Christ! And that is no light matter!

His statement that God has effectually and irresistibly predestinated that all the elect shall so receive Christ (through hearing the gospel, and believing it) is plainly contrary to Scriptures, as well as historical facts.

He has erroneously conditioned regeneration on the preaching and the hearing and believing of the gospel. It is typical of Calvinists to confuse the effectual call as the gospel call blessed to the regeneration of sinners dead in trespasses and sins... whereas effectual call is God's direct and immediate activity in calling an elect out of his native state of sin and death to that of righteousness and eternal life.

I would remind him that his scheme of salvation is not by free grace alone, but tainted and adulterated with man's activities. If he insists that his scheme of salvation is as 'free grace' as my understanding, I would be angry with him... and will call him a liar if he persists after he has been shown the vast difference!

I would remind him that we are world apart: He believes that the activities of life can precede life; I believe that life must precede any activity of that life! The difference is fundamental! We are on parallel roads!

He sounds so like the RBs here in Malaysia. The RBs here, in reacting to the truth I bring to them, have swung further away... and is sliding towards full blown Arminianism.

Why would some old baptists even return to the vomit of the Calvinists???

Why Lord? Why?

Ready to be your arm-bearer,

sing

On Nov 10, 2011, at 5.59 PM, Joeho wrote:

Brother Sing,

A full, unrestrained "Amen" to every point you make.  

Love in Christ,

Joeho

The just shall live by faith; NOT by faith a condemned man is justified by God!!

 The just shall live by faith... the biblical fact,   

and the sola fideists' fable!

Ro 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

It is the just who shall live by faith, i.e. it is those whom God has justified that shall live by faith. Justification by God is the cause and live by faith is the effect.

But the sola fideists - those who teach and believe that a man is justified before God by his faith alone - insist the very opposite, that the unjustified who live by faith is justified by God.

That's putting the cart before the horse, perverting the truth 'the just shall live by faith' into a fable 'the unjustified who believe is justified.'
June 19 at 11:32pm

The just shall live by faith.

The just shall live by faith.

The just shall live by faith.

But many read these words to mean:  

By faith the condemned man is justified by God!!

The just (justified by God) WERE in their native state of condemnation and death. How did they become justified and live? Can't possibly by their act... of believing... for faith is IMPOSSIBLE when a man is STILL in his unjustified state, his native state of condemnation and death.

But first, how did a man get into that native state of condemnation and death? Here is the plain answer:

Read carefully please:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned... 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation [of death]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Here is stated in the plainest and simplest form THE GROUND and THE MANNER a man in his native state of condemnation of death is transferred into that gracious state of justification of life.

The sole ground is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE... the legal basis of the justification of life is the righteousness of One, Jesus Christ (not your faith!!!). This is LEGAL imputation of Christ's righteousness at the cross... just as the legal imputation of Adam's sin at the fall.

The sole manner is the free grace of God... God freely applies the righteousness to an individual elect personally at the effectual calling unto grace and salvation. This is VITAL application of Christ's righteousness to an elect personally... just as the vital application of condemnation is applied to a man at conception.

Only when the righteousness of Christ has been APPLIED to an elect personally, i.e. when God HAS JUSTIFIED him, that he is capable of believing. His act of believing EVIDENCES his justified state by the free grace of God based wholly and solely upon the righteousness of Christ.

But the Calvinists and their first cousins Arminians INSIST that they are justified by God WHEN they believe in Christ... their justification by God is conditioned upon their faith!

Let God be true but every man a liar!!!