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| Injuns say pale face speak with forked tongue! |
Double talk
March 26, 2012
https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/1182086067794
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man
should boast.
1. It is VERY POPULAR to understand the
pronoun 'that' in verse 8 as referring to the antecedent 'faith'. However, this
can't possibly be because 'that' is a neuter pronoun, and 'faith' is a feminine
noun. 'That' refers back to the specific thing called 'salvation-by-grace-through-faith'!
And this thing 'it' is the gift of God. The gift is NOT 'faith'.
2. It is very popular to understand the
pronoun 'that' in verse 8 as referring to the antecedent 'faith', and that this
faith refers to man's act of believing. This view spawned the synergistic fable
that though salvation is by God's free grace alone, yet it is made effectual
only through man's activity of believing.
3. It is very popular to say that salvation
is by God's grace ALONE from one side of the mouth. It s EQUALLY POPULAR to
insist from the other side of the SAME mouth that man's activity of believing
is ALSO involved in that same salvation. I wonder what is their idea of 'grace
alone? Do they say 'clone' or 'alone'? ALAS! man, by nature, is a synergist to
the core!
4. If salvation by God's free grace ALONE
involves man's act of believing TOO, then verse 9 - i.e. 'not of works, lest
any man should boast' - is completely repudiated! If man's act of believing is
ALSO involved in the salvation by God's free grace ALONE, then 'that' most
certainly involves man's work.
5. And the man who believes in order to make
the salvation by grace alone effectual to himself can most certainly boast
because his work of believing appropriated that salvation.
Christ himself declares that believing in Him
is a WORK required by God.
John 6: 28 "Then said they unto him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and
said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath
sent."
This is THE WORK of God... i.e. the work God
requires of His CHILDREN (i.e. the elect that has been regenerated).
If by this point you are not yet bursting
with the objection, 'through whose faith, then?' then you are not even
thinking. You don't need to read further!
========
Sing F Lau
'Saved by grace through faith' - whose faith?
What is that faith?
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2008/01/saved-by-grace-through-faith-whose.html
Sing F Lau
That gift, which is salvation by God's grace
through Christ's faith EMBRACES the free gracious divine acts of justification,
regeneration, adoption of an elect (who is by nature in the state of
condemnation and death) , WITH the gift of the Spirit of adoption to dwell
within a child of God.
Sing F Lau
If by grace, then it EXCLUDES all human
participation.
Eternal salvation EXCLUDES all human
participation.
God ALONE purposed eternal salvation for His
elect.
Christ ALONE accomplished that eternal
salvation for the same.
God, through the Spirit of Christ, applies
that eternal salvation to an elect who is dead in trespasses and sins, effectually calling him out of his native stare of condemnation and death. Once eternal salvation is applied freely and sovereignly by God's grace, a man
is fit for eternal glory. Nothing more is needed.
Temporal salvation, i.e. that which relates
to the temporal well-being of God's children in the life here and now REQUIRES
active and conscious human participation. This is the proper sphere of 'human
responsibility.' God holds His children responsible for their temporal
salvation.
To the Philippians saints, Paul said,
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..."
To Timothy, He said, "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."
PJ Walters
(Sarcasm alert) But that's not fair! I didn't
get to choose!
Sing F Lau
But every man did get to choose... and he
freely and willingly chose LIE and DEATH! <LOL>
Jackson Walsh
The answer to all questions is in verse 7:
That in the AGES TO COME he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his
kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. This is all in time that we are
"saved" through faith. Yet it is God's grace that makes this possible
by saving eternally. You can't have timely without eternal, but you can have
eternal without timely.
Mphathe Nemabubuni
Is God alone who draw sinners to be saved by
Christ, by believing, yet we have to know that everyone who believes in Christ
is by grace, and the Holy Spirit is God at work in us from the first time we
believe until our Lord Christ Jesus come back for His church.
If in any way you believed in Christ, isn't yourself who manage to believe is God who let you believe in His Son Christ Jesus. Is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Charles Page
Injuns say pale face speak with forked
tongue! New fangled baptist preachers speak with forked tongue! They say the
unregenerate are l-o-s-t and need to be talked into coming to Christ!
Sing F Lau
So Jackson Walsh, is 'saved by grace through
faith' speaking of eternal salvation, or eternal salvation and temporal
salvation in the same breath? Is there room for your idea of "this is all
in time that we are "saved" through faith'?
Whose faith is involved in 'saved by grace
through faith'?
Sing F Lau
Mphathe Nemabubuni, if words have meaning,
you are a classic example of DOUBLE TALK!
You said, "it Is God alone who draw
sinners to be saved by Christ, by believing."
Let me ask, is God's act of drawing sinners
to be saved by Christ CONDITIONED on sinners' believing?
Or is the sinners believing an effect of God
ALREADY DRAWN sinners to be saved by Chris?
In your understanding, you are saved by God's
grace through YOUR WORK OF BELIEVING in Christ Jesus.
See what I mean - men are synergistic to the core!
Jackson Walsh
Bro. Sing, I feel that it is speaking of
both.
Sing F Lau
You can now demonstrate that Eph 2:8-9 is
speaking of both. Thanks.
Jackson Walsh
I already did. It's in verse 7, explaining
how Christ will shew his riches in the AGES TO COME. For by grace are ye saved
(eternal) through faith (timely)
Sing F Lau
Thanks. Jackson. So you understand 'faith' as
man's TIMELY act of believing?
Jackson Walsh
Cognitively, yes.
Jackson Walsh
Good observation Bro. Sing
Sing F Lau
May I suggest to you that 'by grace through
faith' is referring to the faith of Christ Jesus as per Rom 2:21-24
'By grace' speaks of the manner eternal
salvation is bestowed,
'through faith' the basis of that eternal
salvation.
21 But now the righteousness of God without
the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by
faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no
difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the
glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace
through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The righteousness of God, even the righteousness
of God's provision, is by the faith Jesus Christ, i.e. Christ's faithfulness of
rendering perfect obedience to the laws of God.
This righteousness by the faith of Christ is
the ground of eternal salvation... i.e. saved by grace through Christ's faith.
No, man's faith play NIL role in his eternal
salvation.
