The angels which left their own habitation

"The angels which... left their own habitation"
committed the sin of trespassing,
leaving their native spirit realm
and trespassed into the human realm. 

Initially posted here:
facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/121814511198545

on July 26, 2010

Please help me - what does Jude 6 say.

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Please answer some questions for me. Deal with Scriptures, please. Don't read private opinions into God's word. These are simple enough questions.

Sing F Lau
Here are some questions.

1. What is the first estate of the angels?

2. When did those angels, that kept not their first estate, leave their own habitation?

3. What happened when they left their own habitation? Where did they go having left their own habitation?

4. Where, in the Scriptures, is this departure from their first estate recorded, if is it indeed recorded at all?

5. Where did Jude get his information about those angels that kept not their first estate but left their own habitation?

6. Were all fallen angels involved in this departure?

7. Were all fallen angels reserved by God in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day?

Simple questions demand plain answers.

Now, please tell us what Jude 6 says.

(ALERT - Be careful. Answers have necessary implications that may discredit them as plain erroneous!)

Sing F Lau

Please do not forget what 2Pet 2:4-5 say:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

1. Are verses 4 and 5 related? How?

2. Are the angels sinning and the destruction of the old world related? How?

3. How did the angels sin?

4. Were all angels involved in this sin?

5. Did all the angels suffer the same fate?

6. Why did God destroy the old world?

Cheri Thomas

Define 'the great day'. that is key.

Sing F Lau
Please help us with a definition then.

Kate Richardson

I did the best I could--at least for now. It's in "notes".

Kate Richardson

3) of the last day of this present age, the day Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment, and perfect his kingdom

Cheri Thomas

Zephaniah 1

1 The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.

2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.

3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

4 I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests;

5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham;

6 And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor enquired for him.

7Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.

8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

9 In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit.

10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that there shall be the noise of a cry from the fish gate, and an howling from the second, and a great crashing from the hills.

11 Howl, ye inhabitants of Maktesh, for all the merchant people are cut down; all they that bear silver are cut off.

12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil.

13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.

14 *THE GREAT DAY* of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Cheri Thomas

Mark defines *the great day* as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. I suspect that is true, but I think it is also a type and shadow of the day of the return of Jesus Christ at the end of time.

In the context of the scriptures you present, how would the term 'angel' be properly defined? what are these 'angels' that are spoken of?

Sing F Lau

If 70AD is meant, then what happened to those angels God had "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day"?

Jude 5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Looks like angels are used in clear distinction from human beings. They are angelic beings who had sinned in the particular manner stated.

Cheri Thomas
I think so too, but my dh [dear husband] has additional thoughts. Let me ask you this, do you think there was 'warfare in heaven' at some time?

Sing F Lau

Tell us the warfare you have in mind?

When did that happen?

What happened in that warfare?

We are working toward a sound answer.

Cheri Thomas

the only Scriptural warfare that I know and believe exists is that which occurs in the regenerated child of God, as described by the Apostle Paul.

some folks believe that there was warfare in heaven between God and Lucifer and their respective followers. I believe that Milton presented this idea in Paradise Lost, but I don't think it originated w/him.

Sing F Lau
All angels were created good. Where did the bad angels come from?

Some angels, filled with pride and aspired to supreme authority, revolted against their Creator. This led to their downfall, falling from their original position of glory.

In their downfall, they continued in their own habitation - in the spirit/incorporeal estate. This fall from their original position of glory DID not result in their being "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Had ALL the fallen angels been "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" - the temptation in the garden of Eden would not have been possible.

Therefore, this SACKING and EXPULSION and FALL from glory is OBVIOUSLY very different from what is spoken of in Jude 6.

Jude 6 is not speaking of a sacking or expulsion or fall from glory because of pride. It speaks of their deliberate act of TRESPASSING - "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation", and the judgment imposed upon those fallen angels involved.

The judgment in the former, and the judgment in the latter are very distinct and different.

Sing F Lau

Gen 6:1 ¶ And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

=========

In these verses, 'men' and "sons of God' are contrasted to each other. The 'men' in verses 1 and 2 are the same - human in general. The sons of God are separate and distinct from men. In ancient literature, the term 'sons of God' is used to refer to angelic beings, in contrast to human beings. See Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7.

'Men' in verse Gen 6:1 OBVIOUSLY refers to mankind in general - men were multiplying... "and begat sons and daughters" - the constant refrain in Gen 5.

If at all, the context of Gen 5 will demand that men in Gen 6:1 must refer to the Sethite line, in continuation from Gen 5. In which case the daughters of men in verse 2 must also necessarily be referring to the daughters of the line of Sethites.

But I believe 'men' in both cases are used in the general sense... i.e the ideas of holy men 'sethite line' and the heathen daughters of men are all imagined and read into the text.

Gen 6:1f describes that in the normal course of men multiplying themselves, something utterly perverse and extremely evil happened. The 'son of God' intruded and exploited this natural process in men. BUT why Satan instigated those sons of God to do such a thing is OBVIOUS, so OBVIOUS that the simple cannot see it. Satan is too subtle for them.

THINK a little... Satan has a terrifying threat over his head... and he had been actively scheming how to neutralize and nullify that threat since day 1.

Sing F Lau

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

=======

Sons of God... daughters of men.

Remember that 'ben ha-elohim' is nowhere used in the OT exactly as in Gen 6:2, except with reference to angels.

Concerning the daughters of men - HOW or WHY or in WHAT WAY were they fair to the sons of God?

What does the word 'fair' mean in Hebrew?

Those who say that 'daughters of men' refers to non-sethite women, instead of women of mankind in general, are they saying that only such women were 'fair' - but fair in what sense?

Were the women (women of mankind in general fair to the sons of God because they were appropriate, useful and suitable for their purpose and plot?

Sing F Lau

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

=========

Gen 6:1 we read of a general statement of men multiplying on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. Sons are not mentioned. The attention was upon the daughters - of mankind in general. It is SILLY to think the daughters refer to the heathen women.

No, daughters are mentioned, because they became the object of attention to the 'sons of God.'

The 'sons of God' saw that the daughters of men were FAIR - appropriate, useful, and suitable for their purpose. What was that?

 Gen 6:4 read "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Who bear children to who? The daughters of men bear children to the 'sons of God'. Where they normal offspring? It is very evidence that the offspring between the 'sons of God' and the daughters of men were MONSTROUS - mighty men of renown for their perversity and wickedness and depravity that completely corrupted the whole world.

========
If you wish to comment, go to the Facebook link here: facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/121814511198545