Is regeneration and conversion co-extensive?

This is how conversion is related to regeneration through the gospel ministry, stated and summarized in the LBCF 1689.10. Sadly, the RBs, because of their preconceived ideas of gospel regeneration, are unable what is so plainly summarized here.

If conversion (B) is co-extensive with regeneration (A),
then A and B overlap completely.

A man asked, "Does regeneration always lead to conversion?" and answered his own rhetorical question, "There is certainly not even a hint in the scriptures to indicate otherwise."

What do you think of that? Let me inquire a bit:

What is meant by "conversion" in his question?

What is involved in the conversion spoken of?

What is a regenerated person converted from, and to what?

Does the conversion spoken of require the hearing of the gospel?

Griffin

When God does the work in changing a heart, He changes it. Man who was an enemy of God now MUST rush to Him alone.

And the proof of the pudding of this newly-bestowed life will be conversion - total change of life. This is what repentance and faith will bring.

It may take time (assuming that conversion is the total life-change and not just the moment one believes and cries to God for salvation - that is falsely called conversion). But it will be evident. Without it, man is like the seed on shallow or thorny ground; looks like growth and reality, but nothing there.

sing

Robert, tell us the distinction between regeneration and conversion, in your understanding. Define 'regeneration' and 'conversion', then we may have profitable discussion? Otherwise we may speak past each other.

sing

Here’s my understanding of the two:
REGENERATION AND CONVERSION

Regeneration and conversion are Bible words. Both words identify a spiritual work in the child of God. However, they do not refer to the same thing.

REGENERATION

Regeneration is wholly of God. It is the Holy Spirit’s quickening work whereby spiritual life is given to the sinner “by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Tit 3:5). The word comes from “re” meaning “again” and “generate” meaning “to beget.” Jesus identified this work of God as being “born again” (John 3:3). The Bible is emphatic that God “of his own will begat” us (Jam 1:18), even as Jesus claimed He “quickeneth whom He will” (John 5:21).

Eternal life, i.e., spiritual life, is God’s sovereign gift bestowed in regeneration. While invisible to men, this life is demonstrated by man’s response in conversion.

Note especially the absence in Scripture of even one command for a sinner to seek regeneration.

CONVERSION

Conversion is the response of the regenerated child of God to his Heavenly Father’s will and commandments. The word means to “turn” or “turn about.” Thus it was foretold of John the Baptist’s ministry, “and many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God” (Lu 1:16). Those John turned are declared to be already related to “the Lord their God” but needed to turn about and obey Him.

Jesus describes the Apostle Peter’s denial and recovery by saying, “when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (Lu 22:32). James explains the departure of a Christian brother from the truth can be corrected if another “converteth the sinner from the error of his way” (Jam 5:20).

Numerous exhortations and commandments are addressed to the saved, i.e., regenerated children of God, calling them from sin, error and ignorance to righteousness, truth and joyful assurance in fellowship with God (1 John 1:3, 7-9). A person’s conversion is usually in proportion to his understanding of and obedience to Bible truth.

REGENERATION CONTRASTED WITH CONVERSION

While regeneration is a once-for-all event, conversion will occur in steps depending upon one learning to follow God’s revealed will.

REGENERATION - - - - - - - -CONVERSION

God’s work - - - - - - - - - - Man’s response

Sovereignly given - - - - - - - Conditional

Eternal life - - - - - - - - -- - Fellowship

One time - - - - - - - - - - - Repeated

Inward Work - - - - - - - - - - Outward evidence

Complete at once - - - - - - - Partial in steps

from http://letgodbetrue.com/

Griffin

Answered for me. As I said, many call the "sinner''s prayer" or "decision" time CONVERSION. That is really a misnomer. Peter was "saved" years before he was "converted".

As I said, it may take time (usually does). Few are so versed in the Word and spiritual growth BEFORE salvation (regeneration) that they can thus immediately be converted.

Example from earliest NT Church writing: "Brothers, if any of YOU [brothers, already saved/regenerated] err from the truth, and one convert HIM [the already saved but erring Christian]; let him know, that the one who converts the sinful one [brother, already saved] from his error-filled way will deliver that one from death, and cover much sin."

sing

Is every regenerated elect also converted?

Is that conversion dependent upon the gospel ministry?

Robert @ "And the proof of the pudding of this newly-bestowed life will be conversion - total change of life."

What is meant by "total change of life"?

Does every regenerated elect experience "total change of life" here on earth?

Is that total change of life through conversion achieved through any means?

Griffin

Answer 1: Conversion is expected of the child of God. Sadly, some may be regenerated but show little growth or Christian virtues. They fail at "conversion", but they are still blood-bought children of God. Saved, but so as by fire.

Answer 2: Conversion is part of the renewing of the mind. Our souls are saved, our bodies not until the resurrection. But our minds are commanded to grow in grace, more "in tune" with the Word of God.

It may be thru preaching/teaching, but usually, conversion comes thru personal study of the Word and intimate relationship with the Savior. As the teaching elder, I try to preach and apply the Word to help people in their growth. Some reach a state of conversion in every area; most in limited areas.

Answer 3: I think of "total life change" as ultimate conversion of every facet (mind, will, volition), A progressive sanctification until we opt for an all-out commitment to the Word. This is MY action, MY response.

sing

OK. Now I begin to know what conversion you are talking about - that which is ONLY by the Holy Spirit.

Please tell us this conversion that is independence of the gospel ministry, but ONLY by the Holy Ghost. Tell us more about this conversion spoken of in the Bible. Thanks.

Are all the regenerated (I assume all the regenerated are EQUALLY regenerated in every sense) equally converted by the Holy Spirit? Does the Holy Spirit convert some children of God more than the others?

How is the conversion that is ONLY by the Holy Spirit different from the conversion that is dependent upon the ministry of the gospel?

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Romans 10

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Conversion, in the biblical sense, requires two prerequisite factors:

- there must be the prior and independent regeneration by the Spirit of God; Only such can be ministered to by the word of God.
- there must be the ministry of the word of God, and a faithful one too; No preaching of God's word > no hearing of God's word > No believing and NO conversion
- there must be the ability to hear and the mental capacity to process what is preached and heard.