A little exchange took place when I post a commentary on John 3:16.
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Liang
Just do a translation from the original Greek you will find John 3:16 seriously mistranslated.
Just do a translation from the original Greek you will find John 3:16 seriously mistranslated.
sing
Good idea. Can you help us with that? Thanks.
May the Lord bless you with an edifying time of worship and fellowship today.
Liang
Just take Young's literal translation... John 3:16 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. There is no whoever or whosoever and 'believe is in the continuous tense" and "eternal life" is the "age" inferred from the book of Daniel...
sing
Thanks for giving us Young's literal translation. How does this translation differ from, and better than the one by the KJ translators?
How is the KJV seriously mistranslated?
And based on Young's translation, what is your understanding of John 3:16?
Liang
It is more accurate than KJV because the tenses and words are translated as it is in the original Greek. The offer of salvation to "whoever" is not found in John 3:16
sing
Tell us in what way it is more accurate, and the KJV seriously mistranslated? I want to learn. Thank you.
Liang
Firstly, as I have stated before, the KJV "Everlasting Life" is not found in the original verse. "believeth" should be "believing" (wrong tense)
sing
Please give the verse in Greek from which Young did his translation.
Liang
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
sing
Young's translation of John 3:16
"for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."
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May I ask a few questions?
1. What is life age-during? I know it sounds literal, what is it to " have life age-during."
2. "every one who is believing" is the same as “every believing one”, is the same as “whosoever believeth” of the kjt.
- My little knowledge of Greek tells me that it is a PARTICIPLE, a verbal noun, a noun made from a verb.
- How is Young’s translation more accurate, and how is kjt seriously mistranslated?
Take a look here...
See for yourself from where the word whosoever is from, and click on the icon "parse" for believeth. You may learn a thing or two.
Liang
1. Zoe Aionion is "life age-during" or more accurately life (Zoe) pertaining to the age (Aionion).
2. πᾶς or PAS is normally translated as "All" in many passages. There is no such word "Whosoever" in greek. I feel that PAS is inconsistently translated in John 3:16
[how should PAS be translated then? sing]
[how should PAS be translated then? sing]
sing
May I ask, what is life pertaining to the age? What is the age spoken of?
What is the virtue of literalness when it begs so many questions? Honest questions.
Liang
The ambiguity is there, unfortunately.
Get a translation from an independent source like a Greek scholar who is not a Christian
Actually, the blue letter bible translated the KJV to Greek and not vice versa.
sing
In context, pas, all, every one who is believing, whosoever believeth is exactly the same meaning.
But HAVE and MAY HAVE are world of difference.
My choice is clear. I'll gladly leave you to yours.
My choice is clear. I'll gladly leave you to yours.
sing
Liang @ Actually the blue letter bible translated the KJV to Greek and not vice versa.
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KJV is translated from TR. Here TR text for you.
John 3:16 — Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
Liang
πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων.....
Your blue letter bible made πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων to πᾶς πιστεύω to force "Whosoever Believeth" to be correct!
[sing: how does the absence of the definite article force "whosoever believeth" to be correct? You come across as a lad who loves throwing forth charges. And the charges are quite pathetic!
πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων - all the believing ones;
πᾶς πιστεύω - all believing ones. You imagine πιστεύων is a verb and in the present continuous tense. But πιστεύων is a participle, a verbal noun, like "all eating ones have life," the eating ones possess life, they eat because they have life.
[sing: how does the absence of the definite article force "whosoever believeth" to be correct? You come across as a lad who loves throwing forth charges. And the charges are quite pathetic!
πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων - all the believing ones;
πᾶς πιστεύω - all believing ones. You imagine πιστεύων is a verb and in the present continuous tense. But πιστεύων is a participle, a verbal noun, like "all eating ones have life," the eating ones possess life, they eat because they have life.
sing
The blue letter bible shows the reverse interlinear. There is no forcing of anything. That's your imagination. The Greek TR text is given above the interlinear table.
Your reasoning is illogical and indicates that you have lost your plot.
sing
Liang, you concluded from Young's translation that "The offer of salvation to "whoever" is not found in John 3:16."
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But these words in YLT:
"every one who is believing... MAY have life age-during" DECLARES otherwise.
There is an unbridgeable gulf between:
- "every one who is believing... MAY have life age-during" and
- "every one who is believing .. HAVE life age-during."
You may need to make up your mind which one you want to believe.
sing
The ambiguity is there, unfortunately.
Get a translation from an independent source like a Greek scholar who is not a Christian
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I will rather rely in the godly theologian-linguists who gave me the KJV.
You are free to consult the dead.
Liang
Sing, What happens if the Christian scholars are dishonest? We left Rome for a reason
sing
Just expose their dishonesty, or just trust your own honest self!
A more relevant question is, What's wrong when Bible students prefer to rely on translators who are incapable of discerning spiritual things?
You have a good day.
I will leave the matter here.
