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A popular idea versus the biblical truth
"In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
VERSUS
In Christ, the elect are saved by BOTH Christ's life
(of perfect obedience to
the laws of God for them),
AND
Christ's death (in payment of their wages of sins)
Christ's death (in payment of their wages of sins)
It is by BOTH His
blood, AND righteousness.
The popular idea REPUDIATES the absolute necessity
of Christ's life of sinless and perfect obedience to God's law
in securing the righteousness for the elect's
justification before God.
Mark posted this
I am all for intellectual assent to
the gospel. Intellectual knowledge and understanding of the gospel is a great
gift of God. But that assent, knowledge and understanding is not our
righteousness. The object of assent is Christ's death for the imputed sins of
the elect. In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone. The assent to
the death is not the death. The assent to the death is not our righteousness.
Jason
Yep, He is our righteousness.
Yep, He is our righteousness.
Mark
II Peter 1:1 Peter, a servant and
apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing
with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
It is a righteousness of God that saves. Nothing more conclusively shows that it is not our righteousness. We are not God. Christ is God. Christ's death is God's righteousness
The righteousness revealed in the gospel and obtained by Christ's obedient death in history is not God's attribute of righteousness, but it does satisfy God's attribute of righteousness. Human righteousness does not. The death of a person who is only human is not God's righteousness.
The righteousness earned by Christ's death is not the righteousness by which Christ (God Himself) is righteous, but the righteousness earned by Christ's death is that by which God justifies elect sinners.
It is a righteousness of God that saves. Nothing more conclusively shows that it is not our righteousness. We are not God. Christ is God. Christ's death is God's righteousness
The righteousness revealed in the gospel and obtained by Christ's obedient death in history is not God's attribute of righteousness, but it does satisfy God's attribute of righteousness. Human righteousness does not. The death of a person who is only human is not God's righteousness.
The righteousness earned by Christ's death is not the righteousness by which Christ (God Himself) is righteous, but the righteousness earned by Christ's death is that by which God justifies elect sinners.
Jason
2 Peter 1:1 is one of the many
verses that helped me greatly. You have faith as a gift, by Christs
righteousness and not ours, and Jesus being called God and savior. That verse
along with John 1:12,13 helped me considerably.
sing
Death alone took care of the SIN and
CONDEMNATION only.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
Mark
sing, you got a Bible text that says
that, or only a confession of faith?
So are you saying that faith is not
purchased by Christ's death, that faith is not given because of Christ's death?
sing
Mark, I said these:
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION only.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
I didn't give the slightest hint at faith at all, much less the idea that faith is purchased by Christ's death or that faith is given because of Christ's death.
If you wish to know, faith is a spiritual virtue WORKED in the child of God by the indwelling Spirit of God.
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION only.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
I didn't give the slightest hint at faith at all, much less the idea that faith is purchased by Christ's death or that faith is given because of Christ's death.
If you wish to know, faith is a spiritual virtue WORKED in the child of God by the indwelling Spirit of God.
Mark
are you saying that the death of
Christ was not active obedience? the one act of righteousness?
I will lay it down, and I will take
it up again
sure the Father is the priest who "hands him over" to be sacrificed ---Romans 8:32
but also, Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:32
unlike us, Christ died when he wanted to, because He wanted to, He wasn't a baby, He wasn't even only a mature adult, He was also God and died on purpose, as an "accomplishment" (the discussion on the mount of glorification). As God, unlike us, Christ had sovereignty over His own life and death.
Psalm 31: 5 Into your hand I WILL hand over my spirit;
Isaiah 53: 12 He poured out His soul unto death
sure the Father is the priest who "hands him over" to be sacrificed ---Romans 8:32
but also, Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:32
unlike us, Christ died when he wanted to, because He wanted to, He wasn't a baby, He wasn't even only a mature adult, He was also God and died on purpose, as an "accomplishment" (the discussion on the mount of glorification). As God, unlike us, Christ had sovereignty over His own life and death.
Psalm 31: 5 Into your hand I WILL hand over my spirit;
Isaiah 53: 12 He poured out His soul unto death
Mark
there are some folks who say “not
justification but sanctification” who still manage to think of faith as the
power which keeps us saved. Scott Clark on faith as a “power”—-The English noun
“virtue” isderived from the Latin noun ” the root sense of which is “power.” To
speak of faith “as a virtue” tends to cause folk to locate the power of faith
in faith itself.
WCF 8.6: Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after his incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect….
WCF 13.1 .–They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them…through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection
2 Peter 1:5 is to the point here: For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue (αρετη), and virtue with knowledge….
Neither the Three Forms nor the
Westminster Standards speak of faith as a “virtue.”
WCF 14.1 The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe…. is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,There is nothing intrinsic to faith that makes it powerful. The mystery of faith is that it is, in itself, empty. It is a sign of our perversity that we continually try to fill faith with something other than “Christ for us.” We want to make the power of faith to be faith itself or Spirit-wrought sanctity or something else beside Christ.
:
Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.
Faith does not justify because it is “formed by love,” i.e. made powerful by Spirit-wrought sanctity—–.
http://heidelblog.net/2014/06/is-faith-a-virtue-
WCF 14.1 The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe…. is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,There is nothing intrinsic to faith that makes it powerful. The mystery of faith is that it is, in itself, empty. It is a sign of our perversity that we continually try to fill faith with something other than “Christ for us.” We want to make the power of faith to be faith itself or Spirit-wrought sanctity or something else beside Christ.
:
Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.
Faith does not justify because it is “formed by love,” i.e. made powerful by Spirit-wrought sanctity—–.
http://heidelblog.net/2014/06/is-faith-a-virtue-
David asks, I know that we would say
that faith is an instrument whereby we receive Christ's imputed...
heidelblog.net
sing
“are you saying that the death of
Christ was not active obedience? the one act of righteousness?”
==============
I said these:
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION alone.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
You said, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
But Christ's death ALONE dealt with the wages of sins ALONE. Christ's death alone secured the forgiveness of sins alone.
Christ's life of sinless obedience to the law of God secured the righteousness for the justification of His elect.
Try to understand what I have said. That's better. .
There are one and thousand things I haven't said!
==============
I said these:
Death alone took care of the SIN and CONDEMNATION alone.
Sinless life took care of the RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION.
Both the 'active" obedience and "passive" obedience are needed.
You said, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
But Christ's death ALONE dealt with the wages of sins ALONE. Christ's death alone secured the forgiveness of sins alone.
Christ's life of sinless obedience to the law of God secured the righteousness for the justification of His elect.
Try to understand what I have said. That's better. .
There are one and thousand things I haven't said!
Mark
sing, you just keep repeating your point
but not arguing for it. Where does the Bible say that the death only forgives
but does not give a positive righteousness? where in scriptures does it say
that the death is only the wages of sin but still not enough for life? I
understand what you have said so far--it's just the same thing over and over
again, but no proof from the Bible.
Mark
A focus on “the active obedience” of
Christ can...
markmcculley.wordpress.com
sing
Where does the Bible say that the
death only forgives but does not give a positive righteousness?
================
Fair question, Mark.
I just took it for granted that a student of God's word knows such obvious truth.
Mat 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Heb 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
What secured the POSITIVE righteousness is Christ Jesus' life of active and perfect obedience to all the laws of God. Sins is the transgression of the law of God; righteousness is the obedience to the law of God.
I just thoughts these TWO truths are so basic.
Remission of sin alone DOES NOT justify a condemned man.
Imputation of Christ's righteousness does.
And that righteousness is secured by Christ's life of perfect and sinless obedience to all the laws of God. PERIOD.
Forgiveness of your sins is based on Christ's paying the wages of your sins, by His substitutionary death on the cross.
Imputation of righteousness to you for your justification before God is based on the faithfulness of Christ's perfect obedience to the laws of God.
BUT you insist the ALONE, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
In Christ, the elect are saved by BOTH Christ's life of perfect obedience to the laws of God for them, AND Christ's death in their place. It is by His blood, AND righteousness.
It is BOTH; it is not alone. You can keep your "alone."
Thanks.
================
Fair question, Mark.
I just took it for granted that a student of God's word knows such obvious truth.
Mat 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Heb 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
What secured the POSITIVE righteousness is Christ Jesus' life of active and perfect obedience to all the laws of God. Sins is the transgression of the law of God; righteousness is the obedience to the law of God.
I just thoughts these TWO truths are so basic.
Remission of sin alone DOES NOT justify a condemned man.
Imputation of Christ's righteousness does.
And that righteousness is secured by Christ's life of perfect and sinless obedience to all the laws of God. PERIOD.
Forgiveness of your sins is based on Christ's paying the wages of your sins, by His substitutionary death on the cross.
Imputation of righteousness to you for your justification before God is based on the faithfulness of Christ's perfect obedience to the laws of God.
BUT you insist the ALONE, "In Christ the elect are saved by Christ's death alone."
In Christ, the elect are saved by BOTH Christ's life of perfect obedience to the laws of God for them, AND Christ's death in their place. It is by His blood, AND righteousness.
It is BOTH; it is not alone. You can keep your "alone."
Thanks.
sing
I noticed you quote from the WCF. It is inferior to the 1689LCF.
1689.11.1
Those
whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by
infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by
accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything
wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by
imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical
obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's
active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have
not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians
1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John
1:12; Romans 5:17 )
Please note:
"... by imputing Christ's active obedience unto
the whole law, and passive obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness..."
Christ's ACTIVE obedience to the whole law,
AS WELL AS
His PASSIVE obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness.
AS WELL AS
His PASSIVE obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness.
=================
You can read further here:
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