Demonizing the Civil Government Ordained by God

The first time I grapple with the wickedness
of a nation demonizing another nation.

Initially posted here: https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid0kVEHDqc86mMff8HiK2myrUw8Qcks9pYLz4ZRdUpShh34khxwXck7ACshE9djtZ3kl

June 18, 2020

Romans 13
1 ¶Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
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Comments

Reggie Lee
All powers are ordained of God for a purpose, wether they are a dictator or a president.

Dan Samons
Romans 13 must be reconciled with Acts 5:29. Romans does not teach unqualified submission to authority, neither does Acts validate every act of civil disobedience.

Sing F Lau
Dan Samons There is nothing to reconcile because there is no contradiction.
That is, both truths apply equally to whatever forms of government we are subjected to by God's divine providence.

For example, is the government in US more ordained of God than that in North Korea? I didn't ask which is preferable or more agreeable.

Dan Samons
They MUST be reconciled, because taken at face value, they are a contradiction. That process of reconciliation is right division, which regards context and prevents contradiction.

Bottom line - obedience to civil government is not a universal scriptural mandate.

Dan Samons
IMO, the most clarifying question on the issue is “was the authority of those who commanded the apostles to stop preaching in Christ’s name ordained of God?” If not, then God does not ordain ALL authorities. If so, then, in some instances, obedience to God involves disobedience to civil authorities. The latter is consistent with the word of God.

Or so it seems to me.

Sing F Lau
No, the issue is not about obedience or disobedience to civil government; the issue is whether one form of civil government is more ordained of God than the other. That's what this thread is about.

Saulo Saulo
One principle in hermeneutics is, "the unity of the scripture". Every student of the word must approach the scripture as United. In the event that one thinks that one scripture contradicts another scripture, that only indicates that understanding of the both is fallen short.

Dan Samons
Saulo Saulo - the application of the "unity of scripture" principle against seemingly contradictory statements is called right division. It is absolutely essential to a proper understanding of the bible, because there are many statements in the word of… See more

Dan Samons
SFL: No, the issue is not about obedience or disobedience to civil government;
DS: Your post asks - "Is it a sin to bad mouth or SUBVERT it?" with respect to civil government. That is most certainly about obedience or disobedience to civil government.

SFL: the issue is whether one form of civil government is more ordained of God than the other.
DS: I doubt that we disagree on that matter (if at all). All authorities are ordained of God in that he has either actively placed them in their current position of authority or has longsuffered (permitted) it to be so. What I'm pointing out is that the ordinance of God is not the sole ruling factor involved in a decision regarding civil compliance to the government's commands. To draw that out more explicitly:

Q: Were the council and the high-priest who straitly commanded Peter and the apostles to not teach in this name ordained of God?
A: Yes. "The powers that be are ordained of God." (Romans 13:1)

Q: Were Peter and the apostles sinning against God when they disobeyed that authoritative command?
A: No. "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29) This statement establishes that some acts of civil disobedience are REQUIRED in order to be in obedience to God, irrespective of the fact that all authorities are ordained of God.

SFL: That's what this thread is about.
DS: Brother, in all candor, your post raises the question, "Is it a sin to bad mouth or SUBVERT [government]?" In so doing, it seems unavoidable that this thread is also about the issue of obedience or disobedience.

Dan Samons
With respect to the matter of "whether one form of civil government is more ordained of God than the other" - I am certain we both agree that both are ordained of God by either active causation or permission. That said, one form of government may be more opposed to the word of God than another. And the degree to which this difference affects the commands they press upon their citizens relates directly to the matter of whether or not Christians should obey their government. Do you agree?

Sing F Lau
Is it wicked of the Christians of one country, say USA, bad-mouthing and subverting the government of another country, say North Korea?

Dan Samons
SFL: Is it wicked of the Christians of one country, say USA, bad-mouthing and subverting the government of another country???
DS: That question cuts a wide berth. I don't believe it can be answered in a single, categorical sense, either Yes or No. That said, to the extent that John the Baptist called out the wickedness of Herod or Amos the wickedness of other nations, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that Christians in one country may be doing right to "bad mouth" (speak ill of) the wickedness that exists in other countries. This by no-means forms a blanket justification of all speech that takes the form of "bad mouthing."

DS: Moreover, the issue of "subverting" raises a host of other questions, that I will let alone for now, but only call out to further underscore the represented by the breadth of the question.

Benjamin Winslett
Honestly, Americans are so idolatrous when it comes to politics, there's a lot of wickedness in our perspective and behavior concerning politics.

Sing F Lau
Dan Samons Calling out the personal wickedness of a man, and what a prophet of God (Amos) was doing so are quite different from a nation with a different form of government bad-mouthing and subverting the government of another nation... I would think... unless you equate a leader of a country as a prophet of God.

Dan Samons
Benjamin C Winslett - That is certainly true.

Dan Samons
SFL: Calling out the personal wickedness of a man, and what a prophet of God (Amos) was doing so are quite different from a nation with a different form of government bad-mouthing and subverting the government of another nation... I would think...
DS: Different in some respects, but certainly not all.

SFL: unless you equate a leader of a country as a prophet of God.
DS: I do not equate a leader of a country with a prophet of God. But I do believe it is possible for leaders or citizens of one country to denounce the principles or precepts of another country while being consistent with the word of God. If you run a government (ordained by God) that murders Christians, then your government is evil and men are at liberty resist those murderous actions. Do you agree?

Dan Samons
SFL: Is there one right kind of civil government?
DS: Given that we live in a fallen world, every government is tainted by sin. As a result, to unequivocally affirm any kind of civil government as the "right kind" in an absolute sense would be short sighted. I've often stated that the best kind of government is a benevolent Jewish autocracy, provided those terms are biblically defined.

The Faith of Christ ≠ ≠ ≠ Your Faith in Christ

Justification involves the imputation
of Christ's righteousness to an elect
in the state of condemnation and death;
he is justified FREELY by the grace of God.
In his state of condemnation and death,
he is INCAPABLE of believing/faith.

#thefaithofChrist

The righteousness which is through the faith of Christ.

Phi 3: 9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that [righteousness] which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.

The righteousness necessary for the justification of an unjustified man, in his native state of sin and condemnation, before God is either:

- by his own righteousness through his obedience to the law, or

- by Christ's righteousness through His faithfulness in obeying the same law.

Righteousness, the obedience to the law, is a prerequisite for the justification of life. Sin, the transgression of the law, is the cause of the condemnation of death.

Ro 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation [of death]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

The plain truth stated by Paul is:

The sin of Adam brought the condemnation of death.

EVEN SO...

The righteousness of Christ secured justification of life.

Very many smooth preachers teach you this LIE:

Your faith in Christ >>> justification of life.

The righteousness which is through the faithfulness of Christ in obeying the law is of God's provision for His people.

And this righteousness, provided FREELY by God for His people, can be experienced by faith alone in Jesus Christ. 

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Note closely two important matters:
1. Justified FREELY by God's grace; not by faith, man's act of believing. 
- The latter is the POPULAR fable 

2. Justified FREELY (the MANNER of justification) THROUGH the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (the BASIS of justification) 


May our gracious Lord grant you understanding. 
Amen.

The Righteousness Needed for Your Justification

"... but that [righteousness] which is through the faith of Christ."
It is "through the faith of Christ",
It is NOT through your faith IN Christ.
Your fickle faith plays NO role in your justification by God.
Only the righteousness of Christ through His FAITHFULNESS
in rendering perfect and complete laws of God does. 

Phi 3: 9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that [righteousness] which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Righteousness needed for man's justification before God is either:

- by his own righteousness through his obedience of the law, or

- by Christ's righteousness through His faithfulness in obeying the same law.

Righteousness, the obedience to the law, is a prerequisite for the justification of life.

Sin, the transgression of the law, is the cause of the condemnation of death.

Ro 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation [of death]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

The plain truth stated by Paul is:

Sin of Adam >>> condemnation of death.

Righteousness of Christ >>> justification of life.

Very many smooth preachers teach you this LIE:

Your faith in Christ >>> justification of life.

The righteousness which is through the faithfulness of Christ in obeying the law is of God's provision for His people. And this righteousness applied FREELY by God to His people can be experienced by faith alone in Jesus Christ. 

Regeneration, and Conversion - 1689.20.4

 Regeneration, and Conversion - 1689.20.4

"Although the gospel be the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and is, as such, abundantly sufficient thereunto; yet that men who are dead in trespasses may be born again, quickened or regenerated, there is moreover necessary an effectual insuperable work of the Holy Spirit upon the whole soul, for the producing in them a new spiritual life;(8) without which no other means will effect their conversion unto God.(9)

(8) Ps 110:3; 1Co 2:14; Eph 1:19-20. (9) Jn 6:44; 2Co. 4:4,6.

These truths are distilled out of the Holy Scriptures by the ancient Old School Baptists in their statement of faith:

1. The specific function of the gospel is to reveal Christ and saving grace.
- It plays no role in the regeneration of a man; it only reveals the regeneration that has already taken place in the man.

2. Regeneration by the direct work of the Spirit of God is clearly distinguished from conversion through the outward means of the gospel ministry.

3. Regeneration is BOTH independent and before the gospel as the outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace.

4. Regeneration - the insuperable work of the Holy Spirit - is absolutely necessary before conversion through the gospel is even made possible.

5. Regeneration - producing in the dead in trespasses new spiritual life - is the direct and insuperable work of the Holy Spirit; no instrumentality is involved.

6. Regeneration BESTOWS/APPLIES Christ and saving grace to a man dead in trespasses and sins; conversion REVEALS/MANIFESTS Christ and grace that have been bestowed.

7. Regeneration produces spiritual life in men dead in trespasses and sins; Conversion reveals the spiritual life that has been produced by the prior divine work of regeneration.

You may draw out more from the above statement.

What is your statement of beliefs on the same subject?

You don't like theirs? Give us yours.

Too many who claim to be children of those who made the above statement have rejected the truth expressed and summarised therein.

Such are illegitimate (KJ translators use "bastards"), for example, the new school reformed Baptists. They subscribe to the 1689 CoF, but repudiate the truths so plainly summarised in the single paragraph above. They are gospel regenerationists - i.e. the preaching of the gospel is the necessary means in the regeneration of those dead in trespasses and sins. 

Ephraim feedeth on, and followeth after the east wind

Fables are like "east wind"
- hot, dry, withering, blistering wind from the desert!

The LORD's words of rebuke to His people:

Hosea 12 KJT
1 ¶ Ephraim feedeth on wind, and followeth after the east wind: he daily increaseth lies and desolation; and they do make a covenant with the Assyrians, and oil is carried into Egypt.
2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

God's people feeding on wind, and following after the east wind - hot, dry, withering, blistering wind blowing from the desert!

What an indictment!

What foolishness and stupidity!

And this is what God's children are capable of.

In fact, they are bent on backsliding!
Ho 11:7 "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."

What about this present generation?

The LORD's words of warning to His people:
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Fables are like "east wind" - hot, dry, withering, blistering wind from the desert! And yet so many follow such fables.

When the people of the world do that, it is to be expected! But the LORD was addressing Ephraim and Judah!

The context is NOT the WORLD.... it is the evil going on within the CHURCH!!!