Free Offer - to whom are you offering?

Here is an article from a statement of faith:
"We believe in the free offer of salvation to all men and the necessity of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved."

What do you think of the above statement?

Consider a few questions to get you thinking!
Q1. Is the gospel ministry a ministry of offering salvation to the hearers?
Q2. Is the salvation secured by Jesus Christ intended for 'all men', thus offered to all men?
Q3. Is the salvation secured by Jesus Christ to be offered to all men by the gospel preacher?
Q4. Is the gospel preacher the necessary instrument to apply the salvation secured by Jesus Christ to the intended beneficiaries?
Q5. Who are the intended beneficiaries?
Q6. Just how is the salvation secured by Jesus Christ applied to the intended beneficiaries? Does the application require a preacher/offeror? Just what is the biblical function of the gospel preacher?
Q7. What is the spiritual state of the 'all men' to whom the salvation is freely offered?
Q8. The 'all men' to whom salvation is offered, are they capable of faith if they have not been saved yet?

Some simple questions to start the discussions. There are many more related questions, no doubt.

Please keep to the subject! If you can't, hold thy peace and observe.
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Mikal Smith
I humbly disagree with the statement! How can someone offer something that's not theirs to give? Scriptures says that eternal life has been given to the Son to give to whomever HE chooses!

Sing
How can someone offer something that's not theirs to give?
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Good question!
Usurpers and con men do that all the time!
And there are many preachers who are hirelings.
And too many politicians give away what belongs to the tax payers!!!

Zack Young
By nature, man wants to believe that salvation was offered to "all men" and this salvation is contingent on man to believe. This is the most common doctrine in today's society because it appeals to man's nature, but it is not what is taught in the Bible. Yes, there are places in the Bible that say "whole world" and other statements similar to that that are taken out of context to get this idea.

I can assure you of this: if Christ shed His blood for all, then all would inhabit heaven, and we would be forced to be a universalist (all go to heaven) because our God does not know failure and His arms are not too short. Also, if Christ shed His blood for you, then "it is finished". Man cannot add anything to the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's sacrifice alone abolished the sin debt of His people. We also know there is a heaven and a hell and both will be inhabited. Therefore we cannot be universalist and some people go to heaven and some go to hell. So what determines who goes where? Does man choose or does God choose? Who has the right to choose? Who is sovereign and who is a sinner? The Bible teaches that God chose before the foundation of the world (His elect children) by His sovereign grace (unmerited favor). God had a purpose (not a plan) and He fulfilled that purpose by shedding His blood on the cross for His elect to paid the sin debt in full. He finished the work by Himself. He sends His Spirit into His chosen people, borns them again, and makes them believe (irresistible grace). So belief is evidence of your salvation but not the cause of your salvation. If you believe it is because God made you willing through His power. God did it all. We cannot add one thing to His work. Therefore we should serve Him and rightfully praise Him for grace that He has given us. Let us put glory where glory belongs.... To God be the glory!

Michael Lim
That's a sick doctrine, if salvation is offered to us and when we are dead in sin and trespasses, we are NOT capable of receiving it at all! God wouldn't have saved us in this case and Christ have died in vain.

Where is the power of God working if it still depends on us offering? Only self-glory to man and not dependent on God.

Michael Lim
What about the Old Testament? They didn't have the gospel then, so they will be in the lake of fire for not hearing the gospel? How about special cases where people can't hear the gospel (lack of hearing or places in countries where bible aren't allowed)? Are they destined to die just coz of that? No way!

Sing F Lau
There is a great distinction between salvation by grace alone, and salvation for the able and privileged - a whole world of difference.

Salvation by grace alone - none is excluded by virtue of their inability to hear/believe, and no opportunity to hear the gospel.

Salvation by the necessity of faith in Jesus Christ is limited to those that are able to hear/believe and have the opportunity to hear the gospel.

Michael Lim
There is the eternal salvation and the temporal salvation in place, correct?

Sing F Lau
You are correct.

But the people who put out that article of faith KNOW NOTHING about the distinction between eternal salvation by grace and temporal salvation through faith.

They are speaking of eternal salvation through the necessity of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is like saying a dead man must eat in order to become alive!

It is a living man that must eat in order to maintain health and usefulness.

Hell can be avoid by taking drastic measures against personal sins

https://www.facebook.com/sing.f.lau/posts/pfbid02bdKFHmCkVMmu9rGYccG6bMbgcb74Wm5kLZ6ob6XAtF6zRG8rYZ7w9QykY7djyA7Yl

 

A stitch in time saves nine,

Even so, with weeds and sins:

Uprooting them in time saves forty-nine (7X7)

I observed a sober truth this morning while doing some weeding on a lawn.

One common characteristic of these weeds (I say weeds since they don't belong to the lawn - actually, they can be useful herbs) is that they multiply fast. All of them produce lots and lots of seeds to reproduce themselves rapidly.

So, a little delay and they have sown a great number of seeds onto the ground...

The same is true of sins in our lives. Nip it before they take deep root and multiply and RUIN us.

For this reason, Christ said with utmost solemnity...

Matthew 18:8 KJV
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Note a few things said here:

- The Lord is addressing His disciples, each one personally in the second person singular, i.e. thee and thine.

- Each disciple is called upon to perform the drastic measure on himself.

- Such measures to deal with sins will deliver them from being cast into everlasting fire.

There are things the text says though there are questions that needed to be sorted out.

(According to Christ, there is much the disciples can do to avoid everlasting fire, but there is nothing one can do about the eternal lake of fire. Read Rev 20:15)

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Adam Wells
Question: Do you understand Mt 18:8 to be literal or only a portion of the verse is literal?

Ante Zivkovic
Someone asked: if I my hand offends me and I cut it off, and then my other hand offends me, how do I cut it off?

Adam Wells
I am trying to understand the author's notion that God's children can go to hell and suffer after death. If we take Jesus's statement as a word picture, then shouldn't we also understand that he is telling us that sinners go to hell so we should avoid sin at all cost?

Sing F Lau
I understand Mt 18:8 like this:
- Sins are real,
- The drastic measures needed to deal with sins are real.
- The consequence of sins not dealt with is real.

I'm not sure which part you see as literal and which part non-literal. Share you thought.

From Christ's solemn warning to the disciples - yes, He was addressing the disciples, see verse 1 - I conclude that He is warning them about something REAL that can be avoided by their actions, whatever one may think of the everlasting fire spoken of.

I disdain the thought that Christ would waste such solemn words warning the disciples against something that has no real and direct relevance to them. I may be somewhat simple.

Adam Wells
If the warning here and elsewhere is for God's children on how to avoid hell after death, before the judgment day when we will be declared righteous because of Christ and given an inheritance into heaven, please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?

Charles Page
As I understand sheol/hades we can't avoid it after death
There we await the final judgement

Sing F Lau
1. Concerning justification, the declaration had legally taken place at the cross, then vitally applied to an elect individually when he is effectually called out of his native state of sin and condemnation, and the blessedness of his justified state is experienced through faith in Jesus Christ.

- On judgment day, it is the vindication of what had happened based solely on the righteousness of Christ. Based solely on Christ's righteousness and blood, they shall be ushered into eternal bliss.

- Christ's work of redemption redeemed the elect from eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. Eternity shall begin for the redeemed when time ends.

2. I understand from Rev 20 that hell will be no more at the end of time.
- That which is everlasting lasts as long as time lasts. It ceases when there is no more time. Hell ends when it delivers up those in it. It shall deliver up all who are in it at the end of time; those among them who have been redeemed by Christ shall enter into their eternal inheritance, the rest whose names were not in the book of life, to the lake of fire.

There isn't a single time Christ warns His disciples against the lake of fire, but He most solemnly warns them against hell if they don't take drastic measures to deal with their own personal sins.

- Christ's redeeming work SAVES the redeemed from the lake of fire; thus, there is no warning the disciples against the lake of fire.

- I understand that hell or everlasting fire is in the realm of time. But the lake of fire is eternal when the time has ended.

3. "please enumerate from the text what we ought to do to keep from going there. How can we be sure we won't end up there?"

- The text states it plain enough what each disciple must do to deal with personal sins in powerful vivid pictures to depict the drastic measures to deal with personal sins.

How can we be sure we won't end up there? Perhaps taking drastic measures dealing with our personal sins will give a child of God hope of not ending up there. Christ did not waste words warning the disciples.

Just my feeble understanding, it's not popular but makes sense to me. I have been called a heretic by some (PBs) for holding such an understanding. So, having another call me so makes little difference! That's how I have understood the relevant Scriptures at the moment. If others have a more consistent view, I'm open to listening and considering.

Charles Page
At death all that is hidden is revealed, goats and sheep, to the right and to the left.

Am I a goat or am I a sheep? The earthly shepherds should help each one of us through spiritual discernment and, at appropriate times, discern and divide us.

There are times (as I know very little about husbandry) that the goats will rule the fold through devouring everything and leaving little for the sheep.

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

 

#goodfruit

Matthew 3 KJT
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Please help:
- who can bring forth fruits meet for repentance?
- who are expected to bring forth good fruit?

Do God's children always bring forth fruits meet for repentance?

Do you bring forth good fruit?

Unto whom was John the Baptist addressing - children of God or those dead in trespasses and sins?

Thank you.

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Here is a job description of John:

Luke 1 - KJT
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

- to give knowledge of salvation unto his people...
- to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death...
- to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work

Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work.

FEW understand the three distinct sets of contrast in the biblical doctrine of justification. Why are so many so confused?

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It was in 1517 that Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses onto the door of the church in Wittenberg, Germany. As you know, this event triggered the Protestant Reformation, and at the very heart of this Reformation is the recovery of the gospel from the corrupt Roman Catholic Church.

You might ask, "What did the Roman Catholic Church do to the gospel?" The Roman Catholic Church distorted the gospel, and the gospel became so distorted that it could no longer be regarded as good news. In the Roman Catholic Church, the gospel is not good but, in fact, bad news. Why? Well, for instance, while Roman Catholics do not deny the necessity of faith in Christ, they add to that faith a list of works that one must do in order to be saved. The first in that list is baptism, without which no one can be saved, according to Roman Catholics. In their catechism we read, "The Lord Himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation...

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The above are the opening paragraph of the article "What is the Gospel" by Dr Brian G Najapfour.

"...they add to that faith a list of works that one must do in order to be saved..."

The Mother Harlot Church teaches that BOTH faith and works are necessary for salvation.)

The daughters of the Mother Harlot insist that faith ALONE is necessary for salvation.

However, the Scriptures declare plainly that:

i. Faith in Jesus Christ IS ALSO a work God requires of His children; Christ Himself said it.

John 6 KJT
28 ¶Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1. Faith is a work of believing in Christ, the work of obeying a plain commandment:

1 John 3:23 KJT — And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

ii. Faith is a fruit of salvation; only those ALREADY saved by grace are capable of exercising faith.

Faith is a saving grace worked in a child of God by the Spirit of adoption given to dwell within a child of God. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 KJV — But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith...

John 3:3 KJT — Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The bestowal of salvation in the new birth makes possible the perception of the kingdom of God that is, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Whatever has happened to common sense? Putting the cart before the donkey is stupid, i.e. lacking common sense.

The biblical doctrine of justification by faith is framed by Apostle Paul in the context of his battle against the Judaizers who insisted on the observation/keeping of the ceremonial laws. He marshalled Abraham to demonstrate the point to them. Few understand this important fact.

Kindly peruse this short article:
https://things-new-and-old.blogspot.com/2011/05/three-distinct-sets-of-contrast-in.html

 

The "Standard Reformed Faith" of some RB churches in Malaysia

The colour-blind will find it difficult. 
Even so, theologians who are addicted to soundbites. 

#standardreformedfaith

The standard reformed faith of some RB churches in Malaysia

13 April 2006 8:40 AM, Tony asked an honest question:

"Perhaps a question from me. How different do you see your present view against the standard Reformed view? Admittedly, no one will have perfect agreement on all theological points, but in the context of gospel fellowship, is your view so diametrically opposed to the standard Reformed view? - This is an honest question."

Kopitiam theologian,
Tony

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on 13 April 2006 12:57 PM, sing wrote:

Interesting question. How different? You be the judge.

How different are they in your view?

How diametrically opposed?

You be the judge too!

[a group of Reformed Baptists in Malaysia designated their understanding as "the standard reformed view." This isn't a joke.]

Standard reformed: gospel regeneration.

A kopitiam student: immediate regeneration, gospel conversion.

Standard reformed: must believe to have life (i.e. those without life is capable of believing).

A kopitiam student: must be given life to believe.

Standard reformed: faith in order to be legally justified; the unjustified (i.e. still in his native state of condemnation) is capable of faith.

A kopitiam student: a man's faith evidences his legal justification.

Standard reformed: there are no elect among the unconverted by the gospel.

A kopitiam student: There are elect regenerate (i.e. God's children) who are not yet converted by the gospel ministry.

Standard reformed: Man plays a crucial role in his eternal salvation.

A kopitiam student: Man plays ZERO roles in his eternal salvation. Man plays a crucial role in his temporal salvation from the perverse wicked generation he lives in.

What is meant by 'gospel fellowship'?

I have no problem to fellowship with any child of God no matter how deficient and inconsistent his ideas about his free grace salvation may be. I am not much better than God's other children.

Ipoh East RB Church may not want me to preach soon... I can understand that because the church may not want to hear things they may not agree with.

I might as well be plainly honest - I don't preach things people can agree with. I preach things that agree with the Scriptures, as I understand it, of course. When I am shown my error, I will make a public correction. I have done that not a few times here in SDC. I am a student, and a fallible one, so put a mantle of charity over me.

Here is a kerbside bible student, therefore no vested interest or reputation to protect or defend, Glad to have your company.

Have another cup of kopi and a few rolls of yue-jar-kuey, and read again what I have said.

May the Lord bless you.

I remain,

your brother and servant in Christ,

sing

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p/s

Peter Kek's magisterial words to me, in the presence of his gang of RBs pastors, 

"Sing, you have departed from the "standard reformed faith".